TRS19 freezes frequently

CitMusJoe

Trainz User
Hello,

there is no TRS19 run without a freezing. I can't see any situation that triggeres the freezing. Sometimes while idle in TRS19, another time during driving a train and the third time while editing a route or session.
Has anyone else encountered that problems? This occurs nearly each TRS19 session.
My TRS19 build is: 97556 (automatic updates selected).

My hardware is nearly high end (Nvidia GTX 1080 with 8GB, Intel i7 CPU, 32 GB RAM, fast Disk drive (3 TB) etc.
BTW: T:ANE SP3 is running _without_ that problems, which I have also installed on the same machine! Sometimes it also quits or freezes, but this occurs about 3 to five time a year when starting TANE every day. So this is in the normal range.

Inside the Nvidia System settings dialogue the ''3D-settings administrate'' item is set to ''Trainz: A New Era (tane.exe)''.

My Trainz settings are quite the same as in TANE, besides the new items, which I let in the default setting.

I also do hope that N3V is aware of that, that's the main reason why I post it here.

_______
Josef
 
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If an assertion happens it will freeze until you cancel it. You don't mention if it is a beta build or not. Beta has assertion set to on and can appear at any time but may appear behind the trainz window so you don't see it unless you minimize the game window.
 
If an assertion happens it will freeze until you cancel it. You don't mention if it is a beta build or not. Beta has assertion set to on and can appear at any time but may appear behind the trainz window so you don't see it unless you minimize the game window.

There are no windows in the background. I also looked into Windows 10's (up to date system) taskmanager and there were no extra tasks running. BTW I always have to quit TRS19 via taskmanager, the only way to end the process. When I relaunch TRS19 there sometimes starts a rebuild database operation due to killing the TRS19 process previously.

The launcher window doesn't tell anything about a beta or so, just in the left bottom corner the build #97556. The launcher's title screen just shows "TRAINZ RAILROAD SIMULATOR 2019". I can only say that I have bought it at Trainz Store at about 79 USD about 2 weeks ago.
 
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TRS19 is smooth and quite reliable, even in the latest beta 98149. It might be worth upgrading. It may clear up the shutdown problem.
Also, check for faulty assets and disable any faulties in CM. Make sure your antivirus isnt scanning trainz database - create an exception if you haven't already done so. Real time scanning causes stuttering.
BTW what screen res are you running, too high a res (over 1440p) will start to see performance decreases in some areas.
hope this helps
cheers Graeme
 
Do you have antivirus on when downloading/upgrading? My antivirus caused havoc with app and routes. Had to turn it off for TRS19/patches/app/downloads.
 
Do you have antivirus on when downloading/upgrading? My antivirus caused havoc with app and routes. Had to turn it off for TRS19/patches/app/downloads.

Yes, I do AV-scan (AV-guard). It didn't touch my TANE installation, so I think it should be ok too with my TRS19 installation.
BTW, I'll never disable any antivirus from running, because TRS19 also goes online and I don't even think to get steps away from the secure path.
The only exception is during an installation. Then I also scan the whole system what takes 2 days time due to some TB of data here.
If all above said is really the case (I'll check again later), I think about keeping off from Traniz in the future ... No more online-games! Period. Most of them increase your vulnerability as I really think about this.

But many thanks for your hints.
 
Here is the Sophos notice:
PUA cleaned up: 'BitCoinMiner' at '/Applications/Trainz Beta/Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019.app/Contents/MacOS/Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019'

I contacted support. They were less than overly concerned. I was told to just turn off virus check.
As we have not had any other reports of this being detected with the Trainz app or installer, it does indicate that this is a false positive from your anti-virus program. Unfortunately we cannot control how the anti-virus programs handle Trainz, and as such false positives can sometimes occur with anti-virus programs.

If you are unsure, then you can try re-installing TRS19 and see if this still occurs. If it does still occur then we would recommend adding TRS19 as an exception in your anti-virus program.

Kind Regards
N3V Games Support Team
 
I never had a virus warning, wether during installation or by running Trainz. (@1611mac)
I also think about starting and using TANE as well as TRS19 without any internet connection - and therefore skipping multiplayer options - and as a result disable AV for that period of time.
But I don't know if this is possible or not? In other words: Can I start and then play Trainz offline (with above mentioned exceptions)?

I could imagine to live with gambling offline only, but when upgrading or using CM then online, with AV enabled.
BTW, CM never had quit with AV-guard set to ON. It was always only when in game.

I really do hope someone can answer above question.

Many thanks to _all_ of you for sharing your thoughts and hints here in the forum. All your comments are not only useful, but also appreciated and welcome! :)

_______
Josef
 
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Whilst I wouldn't advise turning off the Antivirus completely, I would advise adding TRS19 and it's components to be added as exceptions to it's scanning rules. It's less likely to interfere with the game running.

Shane
 
I never had a virus warning, wether during installation or by running Trainz. (@1611mac)

I used TRS19 for several weeks having constant "missing kuids" and such on beta and other paid for routes. The Virus warning then just appeared one day and since turning off the check and reinstalling/download all issues are pretty much gone... In other words.. I think there can problems with a virus report. That appears to have been true in my case. But my experience may be totally unique.
 
Coming back to the root cause of your freezes, look closely at some Content Manager search results.
* Run an 'Out of Date' query. Fix anything that appears
* Check for 'Open for Edit' items. Fix or revert so nothing appears in this list.
* Run a 'Faulty' assets query. Fix everything that appears in this listing, whether by asset repair (List errors and warnings) or locating and installing any missing dependencies.
* Update to the latest beta - Build 98149 - which is stable and fixes many issues that appeared in previous builds
* Install the latest GeForce drivers for your GTX 1080 (currently Hotfix 417.21 WHQL for Windows 10 64 bit)
* Monitor your system components for sudden temperature hikes that might coincide with these 'freezes'. Use GPU and CPU monitoring utilities to capture peak temps during typical TRS2019 use. Resolve any temperature-related issues.
* Create 'exceptions' for runtime monitoring/ scanning of TRS2019 and T:ANE folders/ executables in your AV software. Consider replacing this with the excellent (and largely unobtrusive) Microsoft Windows Defender security system that is built in to your OS.
* Make sure you're not running more than one antimalware/ antivirus application at the same time - system freezes are a frequent symptom of this practice.

Since very few (none?) of our beta testers are reporting similar freezing issues, look hard at the Content Manager query results for missing, faulty or out of date assets in particular.
Repair those and hopefully your troubles will go away...
 
@PC_Ace (#11)

o 'out of date query' listed 82 items, most of them are status: built in, others installed payware or modified - Should I delete them?
But then I surely would have a lot of destroyed objects like locos, rolling stock, routes, sessions or anything else?
o no 'open edits' items here.
o only 1 faulty asset: 'Therese' installed, missing dependencies, payware <kuid:523:19723463>, build-vers. 2.9 author: Auran
Can't delete the faulty (access denied). Also cant load the missing dependency.
o Update-attempt via TRS19 launcher menu/Settings/Install/[Check for Trainz updates ...] shows message: 'No update for Trainz is available at the current time.'
o Will install latest Geforce WHQL-driver tomorrow ...
o SysTemps and some other items monitored in background: No significant changes. Temps (CPU & GPU in normal ranges and without sudden peaks or similar)
o Exceptions in Avira-AV defined, but not in WinDefender.
o Both AV-scanners are running simultaneously, will disable one of them (Avira in this case) and report then here my results.

Will take some time to check the remaining issues ... But I surely will report here again when _all_ is finished. I'll post a complete summary at the end.

In the meanwhile many thanks for your comprehensive support too, sounds all very promising.

_______
Josef
 
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Out of date means there are updates available, right click download usually pulls in the update, if its Builtin you may have to list asset versions and download the latest. When you have obtained the updates they will then be obsolete when, if they are not builtin or DLC, you can delete them. You can't delete obsolete Builtins.

Therese is a known problem and has been for a few builds now, ignore it, it will get fixed by N3V eventually.

Windows Defender is more than adequate as an anti virus and anti malware program and does not eat up system resources or take over your PC with Paranoia setting like some do.

Both AV-scanners are running simultaneously,
Never ever run two AV programs at the same time, extremely bad practice and likely to render them ineffective.
 
regarding the AV scanners I have some news:

o Both AV-scanners (Avira _and_ Microsoft's Windows Defender) can't run simultaneously in Windows 10 according recherche via Microsoft websites. So when I disable (uninstall) Avira at the next system start (boot) MS Windows Defender will automatically be activated and started! If I install a 3rd party AV scanner, then MS Win Defender gets - also automatically - disabled (read at MS). Maybe previous releases of MS Windows (before MS Windows 10) are eventually _not_ affected by this statement.

Other pending items I'll report later.
 
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Yup - sorry - should have elaborated on how to fix 'Out of Date' assets, but Malc has done a great job of that, thank you!
There are some important script and driver command updates from pguy and built-in ones from auran that need to be applied.

(Just had a massive electrical storm here, where I had to switch everything on my network off and disconnected everything from the 240V AC power supplies, since I don't have sufficient trust in my UPS isolation and protection circuits).
Therese is the only remaining fault I have too, so patience is required for N3V to fix eventually.
 
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01) "Out of Date query"
fixed all items.


02) " 'Faulty' query"
Nearly fixed. Last and only remaining item is 'Therese', see statements in this thread.


03) " 'Open for Edit' items"
Submitted or reverted all items. List is now clear, no entries.


04) "Update to the latest beta - Build 98149"
Was not possible to follow. Compare my previous statements.


05) "Install the latest GeForce drivers for your GTX 1080"
Partially followed. In my language the latest driver on Nvidia's driver website is:
417.01-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql-rp.exe. I installed that one instead.


06) "Monitor your system components for sudden temperature hikes"
Cleaned the complete cooling components like: Water pipes (watter-cooling), fans
and cooling ribs/fins as well as cooling bodies inside the PC housing.
CPU and GPU temperatures are now in normal operating range again and not
fluctuating suddenly.


07) "Create 'exceptions' for runtime monitoring/scanning TRS2019/TANE
folders/*.exe's in your AV software"
At the moment I have set exceptions just for executables. If situation does not
lead into success, I'll include the appropriate folders too.


08) "Make sure you're not running more than one antimalware/ antivirus application at
the same time - system freezes are a frequent symptom of this practice"
Isn't necessary with Windows 10. Operation system automatically prevents
dual AV-services.


Final statement:
I always rechecked the behaviour of TRS19 after each applied solution item, sequentially (in this order) and now here are the results:



ITEM | SOLVED (my estimated percentage)
------+---------------------------------
# 01) | 90 %
# 02) | 0 %
# 03) | 5 %
# 04) | not applicable in my case
# 05) | no noticable effect for me
# 06) | 5 %
# 07) | no noticable effect for me
# 08) | not applicable in my case



Finally I would say these are the 'unapproved' results as I want to wait about 7 days
if all stays as it is now. Will not install, repair etc. in this final monitoring phase.


But you can already see a significant trend:
#01, #03 and #6 have been the main causers of the problem.


If I do not post again within 7 days for this issue than the problem has been solved
due to all your valuable inputs , *thank you all*




_______
Josef
 
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Josef,

04) "Update to the latest beta - Build 98149"
Was not possible to follow. Compare my previous statements.


05) "Install the latest GeForce drivers for your GTX 1080"
Partially followed. In my language the latest driver on Nvidia's driver website is:
417.01-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql-rp.exe. I installed that one instead.





07) "Create 'exceptions' for runtime monitoring/scanning TRS2019/TANE
folders/*.exe's in your AV software"
At the moment I have set exceptions just for executables. If situation does not
lead into success, I'll include the appropriate folders too.

04) We can assist you with this. Please start another thread in case others jump in too.

05) That is the recommended driver. Avoid beta versions unless absolutely necessary, but keep an eye out for hot fixes that NVidia does put out from time-to-time.

07) We highly recommend excluding the data folders. The A/V goes "nuts" every time it encounters a data folder. The Trainz content, regardless of its version, is compressed and gets decompressed on the fly. When the program is running, the AI will hunt and pick at those folders constantly.

Overall there is little if any risk from malware within Trainz content. The content consists of image files, .TGA for that matter, text files, and maybe some game scripts if necessary. In the nearly 14 years, as of December 28, I have never had a malware encounter with the Trainz data.

In general too keep up with the repairs and data updates as this will mitigate future Trainz data problems and keep your content current. There's a group of individuals working with N3V, along with other content-creators themselves, who are updating the content on the Download Station (DLS) to ensure it is error free in the current versions. This is and has been quite an undertaking, but the process is moving along.
 
John,

Josef,



04) We can assist you with this. Please start another thread in case others jump in too.

05) That is the recommended driver. Avoid beta versions unless absolutely necessary, but keep an eye out for hot fixes that NVidia does put out from time-to-time.

07) We highly recommend excluding the data folders. The A/V goes "nuts" every time it encounters a data folder. The Trainz content, regardless of its version, is compressed and gets decompressed on the fly. When the program is running, the AI will hunt and pick at those folders constantly.

Overall there is little if any risk from malware within Trainz content. The content consists of image files, .TGA for that matter, text files, and maybe some game scripts if necessary. In the nearly 14 years, as of December 28, I have never had a malware encounter with the Trainz data.

In general too keep up with the repairs and data updates as this will mitigate future Trainz data problems and keep your content current. There's a group of individuals working with N3V, along with other content-creators themselves, who are updating the content on the Download Station (DLS) to ensure it is error free in the current versions. This is and has been quite an undertaking, but the process is moving along.

thanks for your additional valuable comments! You do not only give some advice, but also do explain the *why*. :)
That's very important, as I want to understand the whole issue, _before_ applying anything!

_______
Josef
 
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John,



thanks for your additional valuable comments! You do not only give some advice, but also do explain the *why*. :)
That's very important, as I want to understand the whole issue, _before_ applying anything!

_______
Josef

You are very welcome, Josef.

As a technician by trade, I always liked to know and to tell others the why when things happened, and to know the whole issue before doing something. As you probably know there are advantages and disadvantages, implications as they say, in any action and it's best to know ahead of time whether it's worth doing or not. This is true in all areas of life including building a virtual railroad! :)

Once you get over this hurdle, and yes this is a hurdle, you'll quite enjoy this very addicting program.

I will say that you will still encounter some stutters here and there due to the content and the amount of content on some routes. There are many much, much older assets in circulation, thus the updates going on, that are made by the community. Some assets are made better than others and some are well, overly built, don't have proper LOD, etc. It's these assets while they look good that can be the buggers.

Over the years I have found certain areas of routes that would literally stop the program in its tracks in some places, no pun intended. These routes had lots and lots of content, and it was a matter of weeding through which asset was the culprit. On one particular route, one that I modified and more or less made it my own now, I had a large dock crane. That asset would appear as the train came around a curve. This issue occurred sometimes, but not always making the culprit more difficult to track down especially if there was other rail traffic too. After some poking around, I removed the crane, because it looked perfect in that location for the industries on the dock, and the big pause at that place disappeared.

When building your own routes you need to also keep the amount of content in mind. Remember the computer needs to process this stuff in real-time, and the scenes aren't baked into the program unlike other games. If there's a ton of splines, grass clumps, buildings, trash, trees, fire hydrants, manhole covers, cars, trains, grass, people, houses, buildings, and other stuff, all tucked into one place, your program is going to get a case of the pauses. With that in mind, you need to plan for performance, which may mean sacrificing details in some areas such as in those that can't be seen from the tracks.
 
TRS19 continues to freeze unpredictable. I thought the problem has gone but it returned. It occurs again and again with TRS19, but not with TANE SP3, not with TANE SP2, not with TMR17, not withTS12 and finally not with any other software I have in use.

Due to lack of additional time I have to cancel my investments of time and come to following conclusion: next time I'll wait at least until SP1 or even SP2 or three is out.
But many thanks again for all your kind help! I really tried out all mentioned!

_______
Josef
 
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