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Thread: Conundrum - is Trainz flat?

  1. #31
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    .
    Digging below baseboard level in the Mediterranean finds this!

    Whecsailor’s turtle sea <kuid:67261:35014>

    Casper is worried.



    Last edited by mezzoprezzo; October 22nd, 2017 at 09:27 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    Someone said that they were going to create a trans Altantic route in Trainz (sounds kind of boring to run, unless it was a submarine route, where you could view sea life created by Whecsailor). ...
    Maybe they were going to make a Trainz model of the transatlantic tunnel that was proposed in the 1960s, which was to use 3,100 miles (5,000 km)-long near-vacuum tube with vactrains (a theoretical type of maglev train) which could travel at speeds up to 5,000 miles per hour (8,000 km/h).

    That would make the travel-time between New York City and London for a Trainz vactrain on such a route less than one hour. At the speed the route would make seem less boring, but I suppose most the sights one could take in at 5k MPH would end up being mostly a colorful blur.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermmy View Post
    Sorry Enzo - but not correct! Our planet is NOT a sphere, nor is it 'round'. It's an oblate spheroid. It bulges out a bit near the equator and is 'flatter' at the poles.....

    Andy
    Thanks to something called a Ice Age I might add. Ice Caps compressed the earth at the poles, and it's still springing back.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Thanks to something called a Ice Age I might add. Ice Caps compressed the earth at the poles, and it's still springing back.
    Or centrifugal force making it bulge out a bit. We're spinning at about 1000 mph.

  5. #35
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    Not to mention that the equator is closer to the sun (big gravity well!) than the poles, and the pull of the sun's gravity is more-or-less perpendicular at the equator and more-or-less tengental at the poles. Both those facts mean that the sun's gravity sucks harder on the the middle bit...

    Are we far enough off-topic yet??????
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  6. #36
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    "We're spinning at about 1000 mph."
    Is that why I'm dizzy so much of the time?
    I think this bids fair to be another "Ignore this post" thread. Have at it, folks.

    Bernie
    Last edited by bl4882; January 9th, 2013 at 10:28 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermmy View Post
    Not to mention that the equator is closer to the sun (big gravity well!) than the poles, and the pull of the sun's gravity is more-or-less perpendicular at the equator and more-or-less tengental at the poles. Both those facts mean that the sun's gravity sucks harder on the the middle bit...

    Are we far enough off-topic yet??????
    oh c'mon i hope you were kidding about that!

    the equator is only closest to the sun on 2 days of the year, and that is only in relation to other points on the surface. dont forget that earth is slightly closer to the sun at this point (as in around this time of year) in it's orbit. AND dont' forget that the earth is tilted by about 23 degrees on the orbital plane, making none of what you said true.

  8. #38
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    Oh dear.

    Whilst the equator is only the closEST point on the earth to the sun two days a year (the closest point oscillates between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn and back annually) the equator is ALWAYS closER (which is what I wrote) to the sun than the poles. The pull of gravity is inversely proportional to distance squared. The effect of the sun's gravity on Earth is ALWAYS greater at the equator than at the poles. Always....

    The inclination of the Earth's orbit is relative to the plane of the ecliptic, which is the plane of Earth's rotation about the sun. The effect of gravity at the equator is NEVER more than -23 degrees from perpendicular. The effect of gravity at the poles is never more than +23 degrees from tangential. Ergo even at the 2 extreme days of the year, when the poles are at their closest and the equator at its farthest, the effect of gravity is 44 degrees closer to vertical at the equator than at the poles.

    For more utterly fascinating stuff about how the un-equal pull of the sun's gravity effects us google 'precession of equinoxes'...
    Last edited by Dermmy; January 10th, 2013 at 03:07 AM.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bl4882 View Post
    "We're spinning at about 1000 mph."
    Is that why I'm dizzy so much of the time? ~snip~
    1037.56483r mph to be a little more precise, but only if you are at the Equator.

    At the poles there is little movement at all.

    Where I live, my speed is 652.96 mph (cosine of latitude multiplied by equatorial speed).

    To add to the “dizziness” caused by the spinning motion on the Earth’s axis there is also the speed of orbit around the sun (67,062 mph), but because the Earth is rotating, the relative speed will be greater or lesser depending upon your position during the 24 hour rotation. A bit like a spinning car slingshot effect on a fairground roundabout.

    Meanwhile, this is what can be found (cough, cough) if you circle the Equator in Surveyor and attempt to lay the final baseboard.


    Last edited by mezzoprezzo; October 22nd, 2017 at 09:29 AM. Reason: Grammar

  10. #40
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    Most impressive mezzo. I think we have found our answer!
    Let us worship the Trainz Gods so they appreciate our achievement!
    Last edited by titaniclover; January 10th, 2013 at 11:48 AM.
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  11. #41

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    So, the more you live to the equator the lighter your weight is because of the spinning speed...
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  12. #42
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    No ... When visting the Equator, you are usually on a Cruise ship, with an all you can eat resturaunt, and you gain 30 lbs on the cruise (and at $8.50 a brew, your bar tab is $1500, and your credit card is maxed out, so only your wallet is lighter).
    Last edited by cascaderailroad; January 10th, 2013 at 12:02 PM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderailroad View Post
    No ... When visting the Equator, you are usually on a Cruise ship, with an all you can eat resturaunt, and you gain 30 lbs on the cruise (and at $8.50 a brew, your bar tab is $1500, and your credit card is maxed out, so only your wallet is lighter).
    That made me laugh!

    Worse still, some cruise ship are fitting Tempur Cloud mattresses so that you feel weightless when lying down.

    The consequential increase in cabin charges results in your wallet becoming even more active and thinner!

  14. #44
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raPLzhzxAeU
    As good ol' Chris Colombo' once said: "Queenie ... The world'a ... she'za not'a flat'a"
    And she gave him 3 ships to sail the seas: The Nina, the Pinta, and the SantaFe.


    Last edited by cascaderailroad; December 2nd, 2014 at 03:36 PM.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermmy View Post
    Just subscribing 'cause I want to be here when Geophil puts his two bobs worth in......

    Well, uh, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzoprezzo View Post
    .
    In the real world we can travel around the World and end up where we started. No edge to fall off!
    Yes, it's flat, and it's not so odd as you might guess. Think of the ordinary (cartographic) map printed on paper. Ptolemy is said to have invented longitude and latitude as a method to map the round shape of the earth to paper (or papyrus), nearly 200 years ago. His diameter of the spheroid was a bit off, that's why Columbus expected to arrive in India and ended up in the West Indies instead.

    We call this kind of mapping of a round shape to a flat plane a "projection". Many computer simulations dealing with our globe use the flat plane approach. Rumours say that the cancelled MSTS 2 project (2nd attempt) would have been the first railway simulation to use the WGS84 ellipsoid directly and do their projection on-the-fly, since it was based on the Flight Simulator X engine. But all others are definitely flat. MSTS 1 had the Goode Homolosine projection (the orange peel), RS/RW is UTM, so is Zusi. Trainz is somewhat neutral by default (although there is some sort of projection in place to calculate the orbits for the sun). With TransDEM, Trainz becomes UTM, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermmy View Post
    ... Our planet is NOT a sphere, nor is it 'round'. It's an oblate spheroid. It bulges out a bit near the equator and is 'flatter' at the poles.....
    It always depends on what you want to achieve. Our first approximation is the plane, which isn't that bad, provided a suitable projection is in use. The second approximation is the spheroid (Microsoft Bing, Google Maps, OSM). The third one is the ellipsoid, "oblate spheroid", (Google Earth and almost every map projection used for topographic purposes). Finally the Geoid, the true shape of the Earth, irregular and complex and not really needed for most purposes.

    So, all in all the Trainz approach is pretty reasonable and would stand its ground even under scientific challenge. You are simply not supposed to come anywhere near the edge because that's where the models ends (literally).

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