My slippers loud laugh.
This is the fourth version of the clones.
And not the first by this author if I recall.
Contents illegally uploaded to the DLS - N3V Please take action!
- Thread starter ish6
- Start date
And not the first by this author if I recall.
Again, a lot of us won't use third-party content on our routes, so those authors are (as far as I'm concerned) wasting their time.
johnwhelan
Well-known member
For payware to me there is a distinction between N3V doing something with the DLS content and a third party. If its a third party then its payware. If its N3V including a bit of DLS content with a route that has some work done on it by N3V I don't consider that as payware. N3V is selling its expertise and usually some improvements in the game engine, the DLS content is incidental. Even TC3 had improvements in the game engine and I think many content creators would agree with me.
It's third party use of the DLS for payware that is the problem.
Cheerio John
Couldn't phrase it better!
To be honest, I do not understand the whole agitation here. Zec and Chris described a way for cc to react, if they find their cloned content on the dls. That's it.
That response times could be better, that reactions could be more precise (hint, hint Zec!), okay, might be, so what?
And a word about help desk tickets. I think to present there a text 'translated' by google or other programs is really a very bad idea. Those 'translators' are very good for creating humorous jokes but not for a readable and understandable text. "My slippers loud laugh." maybe I missed an idiom...
It can not be too difficult to find somebody who knows enough English to write a short note, isn't it?
Mick!
I appreciate the thought, but you need to keep in mind that we regularly work with third-party creators, so there isn't a clear case of "this was done by N3V" and "this was done by an outsider." Our DLS license does not allow an unrelated third party to redistribute the content anyway; it's only a license for N3V to do it.
chris
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
C'mon, guy! :hehe: Maybe that's why we at IBTZ aren't wasting (or saving) our time with the DLS any longer! IBTZ's lack of quality doesn't deserve to be on the DLS...
http://www.ibertrainz.eu/downloads/
:hehe: That's what I always miss from this beloved house of Trainz: Love, devotion and affection from "some" fellow trainzers!
At least after these long years of trainzing I've learnt a lot about human beings! Lesson 1: Don't waste your time on schedule! Lesson 2: Waste your time when and who you really like, unscheduled!
Take care, trainzy friends.
The sharp side of Alberte, going
again!
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Gentle Souls:
I have read with interest your posts on cloning and Intellectual Property(IP) infringements. And have some observations from a newbie.
1). In downloading routes, scenarios, and other content from DLS and from popular third party sites, I often come up with Unknown Assets. Some of these assets I have found to be payware from other sites. Content creators don't poach other's content. You may have amassed over the years a large collection of others freeware, payware, Auran-ware, et al and included them in your content with no intent to IP infringement. This includes some of the people posting regularly in this forum.
2). The CMP+ is not available on the Mac version of Trainz, and may not be available on other platforms.
3). When I have an asset, I don't know it's origin. I know the last person.
4). If I develop an asset, say N&W J 611, does someone else own that because they too developed a J, or do I (assuming I developed it independently, not really a clone)?
5). If I "fix" a broken asset, I have, in effect, cloned that asset. Have I, or Have I not violated the IP. Or, do I have to move it to a second machine. Or, share with a friend. I'm pretty sure I've infringed on the IP if I sell it, or include it (or a reference to it) in any payware I might write.
6). If you provide content what are your responsibilities i.e. merchantability, compatibility. All platform support. Infringement. Maintenance. Does that change with payware vs freeware.
7). Threatening bodily violence really has no place here, nor does implying such violence.
8). I'd like to give credit where credit is due. I want to do the right thing. If I have the money I'll invest in payware. With the proliferation of third party sites, it's difficult to recognize legitimate from illegitimate content. Perhaps if DLS had a way to differentiate payware, freeware, or conditional use content this wouldn't be such a problem. How do I give such credit?
9) How do we know when a content developer has lost interest, died, had their content poached, or been diverted to other things? How do we know that content hasn't been abandoned? What do we do when other content developers use such work? What do we do with such content? Do we require an annual renewal registration with content removed if not renewed?
10) Language differences need to be addressed. If I acquired a German, Russian, Dutch, Spanish, or other asset, how do I know it's provenance when sometimes I don't know even what the content is?
Sorry for the long winded post. I think that the main focus of Trainz should be to have an enjoyable and bright future.
Thanks to all of you have heightened my enjoyment of Trainz.
I have read with interest your posts on cloning and Intellectual Property(IP) infringements. And have some observations from a newbie.
1). In downloading routes, scenarios, and other content from DLS and from popular third party sites, I often come up with Unknown Assets. Some of these assets I have found to be payware from other sites. Content creators don't poach other's content. You may have amassed over the years a large collection of others freeware, payware, Auran-ware, et al and included them in your content with no intent to IP infringement. This includes some of the people posting regularly in this forum.
2). The CMP+ is not available on the Mac version of Trainz, and may not be available on other platforms.
3). When I have an asset, I don't know it's origin. I know the last person.
4). If I develop an asset, say N&W J 611, does someone else own that because they too developed a J, or do I (assuming I developed it independently, not really a clone)?
5). If I "fix" a broken asset, I have, in effect, cloned that asset. Have I, or Have I not violated the IP. Or, do I have to move it to a second machine. Or, share with a friend. I'm pretty sure I've infringed on the IP if I sell it, or include it (or a reference to it) in any payware I might write.
6). If you provide content what are your responsibilities i.e. merchantability, compatibility. All platform support. Infringement. Maintenance. Does that change with payware vs freeware.
7). Threatening bodily violence really has no place here, nor does implying such violence.
8). I'd like to give credit where credit is due. I want to do the right thing. If I have the money I'll invest in payware. With the proliferation of third party sites, it's difficult to recognize legitimate from illegitimate content. Perhaps if DLS had a way to differentiate payware, freeware, or conditional use content this wouldn't be such a problem. How do I give such credit?
9) How do we know when a content developer has lost interest, died, had their content poached, or been diverted to other things? How do we know that content hasn't been abandoned? What do we do when other content developers use such work? What do we do with such content? Do we require an annual renewal registration with content removed if not renewed?
10) Language differences need to be addressed. If I acquired a German, Russian, Dutch, Spanish, or other asset, how do I know it's provenance when sometimes I don't know even what the content is?
Sorry for the long winded post. I think that the main focus of Trainz should be to have an enjoyable and bright future.
Thanks to all of you have heightened my enjoyment of Trainz.
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
There's no problem with referencing dependencies, as they aren't being distributed by your creation. So, if you come up with 'unknown' dependencies, this is a 'good' thing (in terms of IP, etc), as the dependencies are only being distributed by the original author.
Trainz Simulator Mac still includes a Content Manager type utility, just it's a very basic version at this time. The only other editions of Trainz, apart from the PC/Windows editions, are the Mobile editions which do not require Content Manager.
If you're not sure of the asset's origin, try doing a google search for the kuid number. If you can't find it, you may wish to 'disable' the asset in Content Manager. This will prevent it being shown in Surveyor when you are creating routes or sessions, however anything already using it will still function correctly.
If you create the model/artwork yourself, then that artwork is yours. If another creator has made the same, or similar, item for Trainz, this does not change the ownership of your own artwork. Note, if you use components from the other creator's work, then those components are their property.
If you repair an asset on your own computer (we do not recommend cloning for this, you should use the original asset's kuid), then there is no issue. Moving it to another computer of your own is no issue, as you are not redistributing it to another person. However, you cannot give it to any other person without prior permission from the original author. If the item is from the Download Station, then you may find an update is available, or it is available for repair in the DLS Clean Up system.
If distributing via the DLS, you need to ensure it's error free for the latest version at that time, as well as for the lowest version you are releasing the content for. If releasing through a 3rd party website, there's no set rules however it would be preferred that it be error free. Payware should of course be error free in the versions you advertise compatibility for...
If you are simply referencing content, and wish to give credit, then the description section of the config.txt is appropriate for this. If you are redistributing content created by another author, then you MUST get permission first. The author will generally stipulate how credit should be given, however most of the time this is again through the description section of the config.txt file.
This really doesn't change much in terms of what you can do with the content. Essentially, if you cannot obtain permission, you cannot redistribute the content. This doesn't mean you cannot use the content, you just can't redistribute it.
For example, if you use a building in your route (I would hope so
), and upload only the route, then there is no issue. The building is only referenced by the route, it's not being redistributed. It's only if you upload the building asset as well that you need to obtain prior permission.This has been covered elsewhere recently. However, Trainz itself does include 'localization' support. The 'username' tag should only have the English text/name in it. There are then tags for appropriate local names (e.g. 'username-ru' for russian) that allow the local name/characters/text to be used. This ensure that the asset's name appears correctly in most/all editions of Trainz.
Regards
Trainmaster189
Active member
A while ago, I've downloaded a Russian Sapsan model by kogovkin from the DLS and I actually found out it's the ICE 3 cloned from Blue Sky Interactive's Pro Train Perfect (the payware German Trainz simulator) to make the reskin. I never owned PTP or PTP2 because I'm from America, but I do somehow know the game from watching YouTube videos from those who have it. If you would download the model, you can easily tell it's a pirated version of the PTP ICE 3 model.
Here are the kuids I'm talking about and all of them are from kogovkin:
<kuid2:786589:694573:1> Blue Sky Interactive
<kuid2:786589:6965539:1> DB ICE Drehgestell
<kuid2:786589:256734529:1> EV-EDA
<kuid2:786589:286753631:1> EV-Golova
<kuid2:786589:245735736:1> EV-GOlVA2
<kuid2:786589:256824345:1> EV-Motor
<kuid2:786589:245294825:1> EV-Vagon-Eco
<kuid2:786589:284582453:1> EV-VagonB
<kuid2:786589:173495:1> Innenansicht ICE3
Note - The dependecies involved were also cloned from the dependecies for the original PTP/PTP2 ICE 3.
It's nice to see some Siemens Velaro/ICE 3 reskins, but it's illegal to copy something that is either a payware add-on or it's from a seperate Trainz based simulator like Pro Train Perfect onto the DLS. I'm not against the Russian Trainz community, but the Sapsan model should've either be reskinned from a freeware ICE model with permission from its author or be made entirely from scratch.
UPDATE: I recently contacted N3V Games on this and hopefully they'll do something about this.
Here are the kuids I'm talking about and all of them are from kogovkin:
<kuid2:786589:694573:1> Blue Sky Interactive
<kuid2:786589:6965539:1> DB ICE Drehgestell
<kuid2:786589:256734529:1> EV-EDA
<kuid2:786589:286753631:1> EV-Golova
<kuid2:786589:245735736:1> EV-GOlVA2
<kuid2:786589:256824345:1> EV-Motor
<kuid2:786589:245294825:1> EV-Vagon-Eco
<kuid2:786589:284582453:1> EV-VagonB
<kuid2:786589:173495:1> Innenansicht ICE3
Note - The dependecies involved were also cloned from the dependecies for the original PTP/PTP2 ICE 3.
It's nice to see some Siemens Velaro/ICE 3 reskins, but it's illegal to copy something that is either a payware add-on or it's from a seperate Trainz based simulator like Pro Train Perfect onto the DLS. I'm not against the Russian Trainz community, but the Sapsan model should've either be reskinned from a freeware ICE model with permission from its author or be made entirely from scratch.
UPDATE: I recently contacted N3V Games on this and hopefully they'll do something about this.
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No, they wont.
If it is indeed a clone of a Blue Sky Interactive model, you would do better to make them aware of a possible copyright infringement, as they are the only ones who can make that call.
It is of course possible that permission was granted for the upload or they may simply not care.
Graeme
Trainmaster189
Active member
Thanks!
I've actually contacted N3V via email and I haven't heard anything from them about the ICE reskin.
I've actually contacted N3V via email and I haven't heard anything from them about the ICE reskin.
I've read most of this thread and have only one question: Who contacts the content creators who are no longer with us? How does one go about it? Crystal ball? Seance? Mayber there should be a required keyword similar to: "If-I-Leave-Trainz = Ignore my copyright".
Another solution would be to have a creator's copyright become short-lived when uploaded. This would be similar to the copyright on, say, a novel, only a much shorter time, like 3 or 5 years.
Bill
Another solution would be to have a creator's copyright become short-lived when uploaded. This would be similar to the copyright on, say, a novel, only a much shorter time, like 3 or 5 years.
Bill
cascaderailroad
New member
A copywrite lasts 80 some years after the death of a creator ... See you in the next century ... You are SOL to release copy written files until then
Being a published author, I am well versed in copyright laws--and I agree. Note what I highlighted in my post.
Bill
You can if it is only local to the DLS servers. Make it a condition of uploading that EVERYTHING uploaded falls under an "unofficial" copyright for a period of X years. Exceptions would be legan reskins/clones vetted by the owner. Just a thought. I'm not advocating changing laws here.
Bill
Bill
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