Why Trainz Community is Top Notch

SantaFebuff

That's So Trainz Forum
Hello all, the following is just my two cents. Please don't start trouble and don't say anything offensive. If you have any questions feel free to ask, and I do not hate MSTS or Trainz.

As you may or may not know, I have gone off to visit different rail simulators. I mostly just went to check out MSTS and the scene there. Being that my computer runs the old program better than Trainz, it was all great fun. I have so many friends who I already know that play MSTS heavily. Having actually reskinned for MSTS and got as far as Shape File editing and moderate route building, I came down to these factors that define MSTS:

- The program is heavily used by operators.
- The program is outdated and completely lacks a proper rendering engine.
- The program is very precise about input. As is Trainz, but MSTS can find a needle in a block of concrete.
- The program has the most precise vehicle physics I know of so far.

Here's the type of people you meet in the MSTS community:

- The person who will share with your advice and help you out.
- The person who will want to run nonstop sessions.
- The person who is too good for everyone else.
- The person who over-analyzes everything and ends up angry at you.
- The person who will never care about you.
- The person who is close-minded and will actually go ape s*** on you if you mention Trainz.
- The person whose work will never be done in their mission to satisfy their desire and make MSTS their ultimate rail simulator.

This is where things get interesting. You may notice there are more negative than positive. As with all communities, you will have both, but MSTS seems to be overly too serious. It's too harsh and it attracts an even more hardcore crowd. Sometimes, I feel as if I'm surrounded by people who are grouchy when happy and murderous when angry. Other times, I want to get back to it and start skinning again. Once you make a friend, it is so easy to get involved. Once you make an enemy it's so easy to have a war. MSTS wars are about 4x bigger than Trainz wars. Trust me, I got people mad at me for reskinning a hopper. Right? Yeah, seriously. They had a problem with the way I reskined it and actually decided to give me crap about it. That's kinda why I left, but no. That's not what I want to report to you. The MSTS community has a warmth side to the cold monotone serious side of it all. There are people out there who will take you under their wing and sincerely help you to their best extent with issues and whatnot. Yet again, as far as information goes, you can't get far unless you know someone sadly. Which brings me back to the darker side of the community...

Trainz has been around longer than MSTS and is still being upgraded and is so versatile it's time for another list.

- Trainz has a decent rendering engine, but is stereotyped as a cheap sim due to the amounts of "unsatisfactory" content mixed in with great content.
- Trainz is marked as a Model Railroad Simulator by MSTS guys.
- Trainz has the best route editor interface in the rail simulator market to date.
- Trainz can have the best physics if you just modified which enginespecs you use and with some new locomotives, they have very precise and accurate engine specs.
- Trainz is easy to edit content with and has an interface over it all to boot.
- Trainz has a manufacture made guide for how to make every kind of item for it.

Here are the points about the community:

- Trainz has people who love to make content.
- More open people who will help you to their furthest extent.
- Less hardships on others, for the community was founded on a more relaxed environment.
- More FUN and less SERIOUSNESS.
- We do have more "Gimmie-Gimmie" people due to the relaxed environment.
- Trainz allows for a less conventional approach to design and community discussion.
- Trainz does have rude people, but the community, again, dislikes such behavior.
- The community believes firmly in the second chance rule.
- You can speak your mind (as I am now).

The Trainz game was initially launched and aimed at Model Railroaders who couldn't afford the model railroad and didn't have the space either. Funny enough, that's the same story with most MSTS players. They have thought about model railroads but either have given up, cannot do it for the previous reasons, or are just more into computers than hands-on work. The community, therefore, was founded upon a more relaxed community style and it has shown and caught my attention in favor of the MSTS community. (founded upon the basis that MSTS is a SIMULATOR) Looking back into Microsoft's history of being number one in the market, they never really take less-than-perfect for an answer. The month MSTS came out it was a huge competitor. Sadly, thought, Microsoft dropped the game. Before MSTS 2 could be finished, they dropped out of the simulation market. The issues with this were huge. The MSTS community bitterered up and got sore over it. It shows. Mentioning it, they almost laugh about it now. I remember when it was coming out, there was so much hype. Even I was impressed. When it was not coming out, you cannot deny there was disappointment. This lead to Trainz, later on in it's life (such as now), changed gears. Since they were doing so good, and that the community was taking it further than model railroading, why not do actual railroads? That was evident in TRS2004. Trainz 2004 advertisements are very stressful on the models included as well as the functionality of the locomotives. I found an old Model Railroader and found an original Trainz advertisement. They didn't mention the models or the prototypical realities offered. Instead, they pushed the basic functions of being to make your own railroad and to have your equipment in a searchable lineup. Original Trainz was aimed perfectly at the model railroader but quickly adapted its new role as a serious rail simulator that was mostly done by the community at first. Auran, though, was not one to fall behind. Keeping up, we see today that they've partnered with JointedRail in an effort to spread the more realistic content and all in all... I love the Trainz community. You guys are great and don't forget it. Now, don't go over messing with those MSTS folks. They have their reasons. I will say, the weeks I was involved with MSTS I was INVOLVED. I almost deleted Trainz. That game has a magic too it, but sadly, I'm a creator. I cannot take the restrictions. Like a soul looking for freedom, I came back to Trainz... I hope that Trainz goes strong and lasts long enough for me to get my dream computer and really settle down and enjoy it.

Until then,
Joshua B.
 
"Trainz has been around longer than MSTS"

Wrong, MSTS was originally released in June 2001. First Trainz beta was November 2001, first actual retail version was sometime in the summer of 2002.

Rest of it is sort of subjective, my experience is that Trainz and MSTS have about the same number of screaming nutcases who have a hissy fit if you criticize anything - Railworks has more hysterical nutcases than both MSTS and Trainz combined.
 
I think it comes down to one person who made the difference, he wrote his PhD on the subject of the Trainz forum but being bad on names his name escapes me now but he set the tone in the forum originally.

Cheerio John
 
I didn't know that. The Model Railroader was dated 2000 edition or 1999 I believe. If I find it, I'll let you know. 2002 may indeed have been the date. If so, MSTS and Trainz were true competitors at the time after all.

One of the bigger turns off for me was that when joining TrainSim, they say in big red letters that you will not have a freedom of speech on their forums. I know you can't say everything you want, but it sounds so mean and rude to say it so boldly.

sniper297,
I know your a Mod for the Trainz section, so you'd know about those nutcases. ;) I prefer the 'relaxed' nutcases (like me).

Cheers,
Joshua
 
I think it comes down to one person who made the difference, he wrote his PhD on the subject of the Trainz forum but being bad on names his name escapes me now but he set the tone in the forum originally.

Cheerio John

John Banks is the name you are searching for.
 
"The Model Railroader was dated 2000 edition or 1999 I believe."

February 2003 issue. I saved it because two pics of my MSTS route, Port Ogden & Northern, were featured in the article.

250263_226517477392540_3970126_n.jpg


Pic at upper left is from MSTS PO&N;

281565_226517524059202_1511547_n.jpg


And the upper right. From the same article, here's the page about Trainz;

285045_226517410725880_364984_n.jpg


Can anyone ID the three pics in that, and who made them?
 
Rest of it is sort of subjective, my experience is that Trainz and MSTS have about the same number of screaming nutcases who have a hissy fit if you criticize anything - Railworks has more hysterical nutcases than both MSTS and Trainz combined.

I am sorry -- I know it's off topic, but the above is one of the most funniest statement that I have read in a while ... a classic -- Kudos to you, sir for typing it --- (I do think you have hit the mark there, tho!)

... I can't stop laughing. I'm in tears, LOL -- I can just picture Trainz, MSTS, and Railraod fanatics locked in one big arena --- LOL

Ish
 
Astonishing how a bunch of grown men playing with trains can take themselves so SERIOUSLY, hey? Even Chicago Bears and Green Bay Packers fans usually take the whole rivalry thing with a friendly sense of humor. I also play flightsims, submarine sims, and assorted first person shooter and RPG games, never see the kind of flamewars you get with train simulators.
 
..... I also play flightsims, submarine sims, and assorted first person shooter and RPG games, never see the kind of flamewars you get with train simulators.

WOW ... that's so true --- I have played MOH when it first came out, X-planes, Microflightsim, and many more, etc ... now I am into Naval War: Arctic Circle, and I have joined many of these forums too,. and yet, train simulations take the cake for flamewars --- it's weird on many levesl but so true! What is it with train that runs deep in people's blood!? LOL

(I am learning off course here for a bit, but if anyone of you ever like to have a naval battle online let me know -- LOL)

Time for dreamland -- Good night!
Ish
 
I think it's because Trains are more accessible in every day life. It's much easier to count the rivets on a train car sitting on a siding than it is to do the same with a guided missle destroyer or fighter jet locked up in a secure military installation.
 
Hello all, the following is just my two cents.
Wow, all that for just two cents. I you ever do a dime's worth I'll get some snacks and drinks ready before I start. :hehe:
Interesting writeup though.
 
Not to mention the amazing staff that police the boards. :hehe:

Kris
Yeah...
Anyway, I can't agree more Josh. I find if you thought the Railworks deal was bad, check out the new Run8 folks. I pointed out, and rather politely mind you, to one of my Run8 friends that there was really only one unit in the game. I also pointed out the BNSF units have the wrong number font. I was called a hater, closed minded and was told Trainz sucked. In the words of Will Ferrel; "Well, that escalated quickly".
The MSTS bunch, and only some of them so no offense to our former MSTS'ers, are often very, very defensive, because in my belief, they know their franchise is old and outdated dying a slow death essentially. So they yell and scream at everyone bragging about their dopplar effects and stuff. Well, I got news for ya, Trainz has that feature now. Although the Trainz dopplar effect sucks, its a start and yet another stab at the MSTS sounds we should all supposedly be jealous of.
I also can't stand when people hammer me with the Trainz is a model railroad sim argument. That's BS. Yeah, maybe 7 years ago...its come along way now. Look at that Pittsburgh Sub route or Mojave, I haven't seen that accomplished on even a real model railroad! Its amazing. The stuff Jointed Rail itself has contributed is far better than what has ever been contributed to the other simulations. In all honesty, I believe JR has just about done more for Trainz than N3V has. So call me religious for JR or whatever you want, but I stand by the fact that when third party content is quality content themed around RAILROADS it remains the heart and soul of this franchise. Trainz has improved more in the last 2 years than any other brand has in their entire existence.
Its also still a reasonable platform. While I have gotten reports that the new Run8 is labor intensive on a computer, Trainz continues to be tolerable on a reasonable computer system, even with hi-poly content. They key with that statement is not too much hi-poly content, mind you. ;)

Great post Josh, its article quality my friend!


Cheers,
Woody
 
Got a new run8 forum over at trainsim.com, gonna beat railworks for the record - so far 800 people bought the game, 790 are screaming nutcase fanboys. :hehe:
 
Got a new run8 forum over at trainsim.com, gonna beat railworks for the record - so far 800 people bought the game, 790 are screaming nutcase fanboys. :hehe:

One thing a lot of the fanboys and haters seem to agree upon is that Run8's treatment of their customers is beyond horrible and that it's a moot point to even try the game.
 
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