Steamshots USA..Lets See Some Steam Shots..

Well then it is the all too ultra-perfect brilliant blinding lighting in T:ANE and TS19, or the wimpy pale shadows, are too grayish weak … IDK what it is that makes them look so fake and toylike, … unreal looking

Every spaghetti western with Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, Deadwood, Hell On Wheels, movie … etc … etc … I have seen had dirty, dusty old locos and weathered railcars with deep dark black shadows under the trains, the track was not perfect, the locos were heavily smoking, and there was absolutely nothing pretty and spanking clean about the dusty windblown, clearcut, dustbowl old west

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cascaderailroad said:

Well then it is the all too ultra-perfect brilliant blinding lighting in T:ANE and TS19, or the wimpy pale shadows, are too grayish weak … IDK what it is that makes them look so fake and toylike, … unreal looking

Every spaghetti western with Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, Deadwood, Hell On Wheels, movie … etc … etc … I have seen had dirty, dusty old locos and weathered railcars with deep dark black shadows under the trains, the track was not perfect, the locos were heavily smoking, and there was absolutely nothing pretty and spanking clean about the dusty windblown, clearcut, dustbowl old west

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I'd have thought you were there

Those movies are far from accurate. Locomotives at the time weren’t even painted black, and they were in fact kept as close to spotless as possible. The thick belching smoke is incorrect and is a well known Hollywood trick to make the locomotives look more dramatic, properly fired the engines should burn almost entirely clear at the stack. As for the track being perfect, it depends on the road and location, but even then rough uneven rails aren’t something any simulator can really do right now. And then the shadows, they change with the environment, and if you make them too much darker they look hella wack. You place way too much trust in the historical accuracy of westerns. In respect to the railroads especially, they’re about as close to accurate as Missouri is to Japan.

-Ben

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cascaderailroad said:

Every spaghetti western with Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, Deadwood, Hell On Wheels, movie … etc … etc … I have seen had dirty, dusty old locos and weathered railcars with deep dark black shadows under the trains, the track was not perfect, the locos were heavily smoking, and there was absolutely nothing pretty and spanking clean about the dusty windblown, clearcut, dustbowl old west

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The problem with that is it isn't remotely representative of the old west. The Dustbowl wasn't around until the 1930s; alkaline dust was only a problem over about a 40-mile portion of the CP, locomotives were cleaned daily for maximum fuel efficiency due to the delicate coating on Russian Iron, these locos were all less than a year old in May 1869, the railcars were new and painted so heavily you could barely tell they were made of wood, the shadows are in part due to the camera's exposure settings, etc. etc. etc. People in the old west were proud, clean living people. They wanted to show that they were just as civilized (if not more so) than the metropolitan east.

cascaderailroad said:

I can't put my finger on it … But when viewing these great screenshots, and utterly fantastic locomotives … Something overall looks overwhelmingly toy like, and fake looking … Perhaps it's the lack of weathering, the brand new paint jobs on the loco's and consists, the all too perfect track, the lack of vegetation … IDK what makes it look like toys ?

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>Complains about toy like appearance

>Still uses TRS2004 like it’s the latest release

Dans engines are fine. As someone who was watched him do all the painstaking work of research, modeling, and texturing they are about as accurate as you’ll get right now. Be grateful he was kind enough to release them, even knowing that some people will complain about them for no solid reason.

If you think the Bon Ami cleaning lady came out daily, and spent all her days, lifelong, soaping & washing, polishing and waxing down locomotives, and inspecting, maintaining, and dusting off railroad tracks … You have another thing coming … The West was a dirty filthy place, where people had multiple contagious diseases, no water for baths, had no flush toilets, were unbathed all their lives, wore perfume and powder to cover up the homeless bum crotch stench (and the same for England, France … etc …) … it was never a pristine pretty place, and once locos left the erection shop where they were built, they quickly weathered and became covered with soot, and were never repainted … the railroads did not take great pride in maintaining the cosmetic look of track and equipment … they were only in the business of making money … And people rode dirty old trains no matter what

And don't give me that load of carp: "properly fired the engines should burn almost entirely clear at the stack" … These, and all steam locos, were smoke belching behemoths

I never said that they weren't fantastically detailed locos … all I said is that they look fake being so immaculately gleamingly clean, on pristine track and spotless scenery … With only a hint of an extremely light gray undercarriage shadow

Everything you said in that post is straight up wrong. Except for the part about people not having flush toilets, and the east didn’t have those at the time either. The fact of the matter is locomotives were kept spotless because they had to be. The Russian Iron used to jacket the boilers had to be kept clean or it would be ruined. Now once you get later on, say the 20s or 30s. You’re absolutely right, the roads ran the locomotives until they were filthy, rinsed them off, and did it all again. But in 1869 when these models are set, that is simply not the case.

-Ben

That’s.... not even close to correct. I can’t directly speak about western railroading in the 1860s but public image was a very important part of a railroad back then and still is. To say they where never repainted is complete bogus. The paint helps protect vital components from the weather and keeps the rust away. It makes it easier to clean the engines. During the steam era railroads kept their engines (well passenger engines at least) looking as clean and presentable as possible, a clean engine means a safe and reliable railroad in the public’s eye. The only time this really becomes untrue is the final years of steam where cleanliness and maintenance kind of start to miss the mark on many railroads. Also would it surprise you to know that a lot of people, not just in the west, lived that way during the mid 1800s? Boy, what wonderful marvels running water and electricity bring...

They did not maintain their locomotives like they were the gleaming pride of their fleet … People rode the trains because they had to get around … Not because they looked pretty … as most steam locos had a lifespan of only a few years until the either had boiler problems and exploded … locos were expendable and had a rather short lifespan, well under 10 years

Steam locomotives only belch smoke when improperly fired, or if they have very bad fuel. Idk where you got the idea that they all belch black smoke, but it’s not true. I challenge you to find even one picture of a filthy locomotive in 1860s belching black smoke, and here’s a hint, you won’t find any.

Also your short lifespan argument makes no sense. If they don’t last long, the roads would try even harder to keep them near perfect, as buying new locomotives every five years in addition to expansion is too much money. As for boiler explosions, they were certainly more common in that era, but still very rare. And even then the argument is invalid, Jupiter and 119 lasted some thirty odd years before being scrapped.

-Ben

In relation to the Old West discussion, does anyone sometimes mix and match the new TRS2019-dated 1860s passenger cars on the DLS with the old celestory cars on the DLS?

Steam locomotives definitely had a longer working life span of 10 years. Even if that’s all they where originally intended for, you’ll find that most every successful wheel arrangement made it to the end of the steam era with multiple examples across countless railroads. 4-4-0s, 2-6-0s, etc from the 1880s and 90s where still working on branch lines and locals, decades after their original build dates. Also, if you don’t consider locomotives to be the pride of a railroad, what is the pride of the railroad? It sure isn’t those promotional coffee cups they hand out I can tell you that...

People nowadays have a distorted view of how steam locomotives performed and operated back in the 1860's (before the coming of the EPA) … and flashpowder cameras were very rare, using old time glass plates … When the steam train came to town, you saw the smoke from miles away, and heard it barking uphill with lots of stack talk, and people closed their windows because of the huge amount of soot & smoke, especially when the loco's were working on even a slight uphill gradient … entire areas around the rail lines were many inch's deep (if not more) in smoke cinders … Altoona PA was a railroad smoke filled valley, as were most US towns

Trainz is generally way too clean and immaculate looking

cascaderailroad said:

People nowadays have a distorted view of how steam locomotives performed and operated back in the 1860's (before the coming of the EPA) … and flashpowder cameras were very rare, using old time glass plates … When the steam train came to town, you saw the smoke from miles away, and heard it barking uphill with lots of stack talk, and people closed their windows because of the huge amount of soot & smoke, especially when the loco's were working on even a slight uphill gradient … entire areas around the rail lines were many inch's deep (if not more) in smoke cinders … Altoona PA was a railroad smoke filled valley, as were most US towns

Trainz is generally way too clean and immaculate looking

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Look, I really don't know how else we can lay it out for you... The facts clearly say otherwise, people infinitely more qualified on the subject than you have proven otherwise through actual research, and your arguments increasingly make less and less sense, yet you continue to try and defend your case with the conviction of an anti-vax mom. The only distorted view around here seems to be your perception that you're speaking from a position of knowledge.

Also, Altoona? You're going to reference a part of the country that doesn't relate in the slightest to the discussion (I'm assuming in an era that doesn't relate to the screenshot in question) and extrapolating it to cover one of the most expansive and diverse countries on earth. Right... That doesn't seem to check out, but hey, my perception must be distorted, right?

Also, side note, the EPA came around in 1970... So yeah, all mainline steam operations happened before the EPA existed... Your point?

Not gonna waste my time trying to convince you otherwise any longer, but I'll admit you are somehow quite entertaining!

The only one with a distorted point of view is you. We have pictures, eyewitness accounts, and general knowledge on how a steam locomotive actually works to back up our facts. What do you have? I have seen no actual evidence put forth yet by you aside from a single clip from a Hollywood movie, which I can already tell you is completely incorrect on so many levels.

Unless you are implying you were actually there?.. in which case I’m sure after 150 years of being alive my memory would be just as distorted too... cheers!

cascaderailroad said:

They did not maintain their locomotives like they were the gleaming pride of their fleet …

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They most certainly did!

it was never a pristine pretty place, and once locos left the erection shop where they were built, they quickly weathered and became covered with soot, and were never repainted … the railroads did not take great pride in maintaining the cosmetic look of track and equipment … they were only in the business of making money …

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Those were the railroads of the 1880's-1910's, not the railroads of the 1850's-1870's, that was the peak of the Victorian era!

shebashetan7 said:

In relation to the Old West discussion, does anyone sometimes mix and match the new TRS2019-dated 1860s passenger cars on the DLS with the old celestory cars on the DLS?

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I do!

Adding to 1860's locomotives being clean,this was pointed out in the latest trains magazine.

"Dusty? Tired? Not hardly.
The popular image of western locomotives imagines a hulking,dusty machine,streaked with dirt and grime,as if it had just come back from battle in the West. Yet these exhausted monsters have nothing to do with the actual experience of the first transcontinental,or the day-to-day realities of managing steam locomotives far out into the frontier West. In the 1860s,locomotives were the most visibly powerful symbols of the industrial age. As a result,all 1860s engines,even workaday freighters,and even those in the farthest western reaches,gleamed with colour and brass. America's fleet of elegant engines appealed to the public with their promise of achievement,and conveyed the impression of splendour."

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From the Trains magazine May 2019 issue,"Vanishing icons",page 55. These are 1860's locomotives and rolling stock cascade,not 1950's.

I have to agree with Jackson here. You make no sense, pictures show clean engines with mostly clear stacks. Stack talk most certainly, cinders probably, but neither of those are the same thing as belching black smoke. Black smoke is a product of overfiring, and is far more common in coal and oil burners than wood burners. As for the argument over cleanliness of locomotives, I honestly don’t know what to say. Whether the railroads wanted to or not, they had to keep the locomotives spotless. They didn’t have a choice, the Russian Iron boiler jackets demanded it. I’m not going to argue with you any more, all of us with any shred of sense know you’re wrong. Whether you’re too stubborn or too stupid to look at and understand all the evidence that contradicts what you are saying I don’t know, but at this point I don’t care. I speak for myself alone, but I know others agree with me. I am getting tired of your pessimistic and unfounded whining. You complain about everything, including problems that don’t exist, and act like you know everything, even though people who know far more than your tiny pea brain can ever hope to know try to help you keep the facts straight. People like you are why I rarely engage on the forums anymore. You are ill-informed, argumentative, and acidic. The community would be better off without people like you.

-Ben

Union Pacific on the old Box Butte route from DLS. So many old routes that need some love to update.



Harold