NG tracks inside standard and other guage tracks

Hi guys.

Has anyone tried to lay ng track on the inside of other gauge tracks on trainz. I see it can be done but I am not sure if it can be succesfully done on routes and how it will affect the running of trainz , like signals , running locos and rolling stock and all the other operating aspects. There were quite a few places in South Africa where this was done succesfully in reality. Not sue about other countries, have never gone into it or noticed it.

Jan.

What you're referring to is known as 'dual-gauge' track. Here in Australia dual gauge track is a common means of overcoming the old differing gauges issue which plagued the railways of Australia for over a century - in fact, large stretches of dual-gauge lines are still in use.

As for dual-gauge in Trainz, I know of at least two different standard/42' narrow gauge dual gauge track splines available on the DLS, but both are what is actually called 'gauntlet track', which has four rails, where as dual gauge normally has three rails - with the two gauges sharing a common rail.

Your trick can actually work, however, because signals can only be used to control one track, you'll either need separate signals for both tracks, or simply use one as a 'dummy' track (Trainz doesn't differentiate between gauges - all trains run on the same common gauge despite how far apart the rails and wheels appear to be as far as the software is concerned). S301 made a separate dummy rail available on the DLS for use with his Victorian Railways broad gauge gauge track, to make it dual broad/standard gauge, which can be used for this very purpose to represent dual gauge track of smaller gauges as well.

That is very interesting and there are so many great and beautiful routes in all the versions of trainz where one could then fit in ng to compliment them or just to simply enjoy both of both worlds. Would there possibly be new CM or DL problems with the assets and dependencies at all do you think ?

Hi folks,

As I was a "Model Railroader" decades ago, I was somehow inspired by John Allen's G&D Line. I used Shinohara code 100 track and partly Dual Gauge switches, Derail left or Derail right, some common rail right some left and at two places some DG double slips and all worked well so far. Locos were from NWSL bought by Pacific Fast Mail. The only problem was, 85 to 90 % of all the rolling stock available did not pass the Shinohara code 100 switches right, due to the reason, since their wheelflanges went to deep down. Result was, cars sprang out of the track. Today with Trainz, I try to do the same type of tracklaying. Mainly every route I build has one SG and one NG line, but to make it properly work with "Dual Gauge" is another story. But thanks to Enkidoh for Your tip concerning the "Gauntlet Track", I may have a look at this/these items.

Trains always run along the centre line of the track so dual track could only have the narrow track in the centre so you have 4 rails showing. The only possible way to do it would be to place narrow track on top of standard track so it lines up with the outer/inner rail. Signals could be placed on the standard track and use invisible signals on the narrow track. You would then need to link the signals together so that if one is red then the other will also show red. This should allow both standard and narrow gauge to run on what would look like the same track.

Now, how about a triple gauge arrangement?



From memory - rails 2 and 3 (counting from the left) are narrow gauge (3'6"), rails 2 and 4 are standard gauge (4'8.5") and rails 1 and 4 are broad gauge (5'3"). There were two locations in South Australia where all three gauges once met - Peterborough and Gladstone.

MAN2 dual gauge track components by the late Elevenor work just fine in 2004 and 2006 . Possibly in 2009. Not sure about 2010 and up. You can make any configuration of dual gauge trackage using them including a swish (where the common rail changes sides).

Ben

Something like 6 gauges at EMD- you should see a switch!

Something like 6 gauges at EMD- you should see a switch![/QUOTE]

This one?

Yeah, that's the picture I was thinking of.

bendorsey said:

MAN2 dual gauge track components by the late Elevenor work just fine in 2004 and 2006 . Possibly in 2009. Not sure about 2010 and up. You can make any configuration of dual gauge trackage using them including a swish (where the common rail changes sides).

Ben

Click to expand...

I recommend Elvenor's 'MAN6 Four Rail Track'. The 'MAN6 Dual Gauge Track' is set up like a bridge track. Plus, if you use it as a curve, it'll look just plain weird. Also, the narrow gauge track is represented as an invisible track, which means that a narrow gauge train and standard gauge track can literally pass thru each other. This also means that each track needs its own signals, switches, etc. unlike the prototype. Because of all these problems, I go with Elvenor's 'MAN6 Four Rail Track', which represents 3-foot and standard gauge tracks, and you don't have the problems I listed above. It's not as common, but it's a lot easier.

pware said:

Now, how about a triple gauge arrangement?



From memory - rails 2 and 3 (counting from the left) are narrow gauge (3'6"), rails 2 and 4 are standard gauge (4'8.5") and rails 1 and 4 are broad gauge (5'3"). There were two locations in South Australia where all three gauges once met - Peterborough and Gladstone.

Click to expand...

Port Pirie also had a section of Triple gauge

as did Port Augusta.

In my current project I am recreating the dual gauge era on the Peterborough Division (triple gauge is just too "fiddly").



Dual narrow (3'6" = 1067mm) and Irish broad gauge (5'3" = 1600mm) track at Gladstone yard 1960s. By 1969-70 standard gauge (4'8.5" = 1435mm) track had been added and many of the yard tracks were triple gauged. By 1990 only the standard gauge track remained. The above was (painfully) created by very carefully laying narrow gauge track inside broad gauge track so that one rail from each was superimposed. It only worked well enough on straight track segments and required a lot of fiddling of spline heights and alignments.

Would this work to add additional tracks?

attached-splines
{
third-rail
{
follows-spline-gradient 1
lateral-offset 2
spline-kuid <kuid:61015:37032>
use-same-direction 1
visual-only 0
}

I know that it can't be used all over but is useful in those locations where there are long runs and curves. Crossovers, and other complex point work require manual placement though, but I think this would make things a heck of a lot easier in the long run if it's possible.

JCitron said:

Would this work to add additional tracks?

Click to expand...

Almost worked.



They attached side-by-side with NG on the left and you can just see the ends of the BG track poking out on the right. Each spline still has its own end point circles but moving one moves both.

There is a height difference between the two splines which explains the burial of the BG track.

It will need some more experimentation and investigation but thanks for the idea.

Peter

EDIT:

The wiki page https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"attached-splines"_container has given me some clues to work with.

EDIT 2:

Further investigation reveals that this is probably not the solution. I think it would be easier to create a dual gauge mesh. But it was worth a try.

I've always just laid down both gauges, generally straights first, then curves and points. I use the base widest gauge (in my case a normal broad gauge track) and a rail only version of the track that is narrower than it, before swapping it out for the dual gauge track that Victorian's are lucky enough to have made by S301. And I've laid Melbourne, VIC in 3 different eras - all in the standard gauge era.