Time To Speak Out Objectively About Trainz Quality and Other

johnwhelan said:

Idle thought are we now at the stage where route building is best left to the specialists?
Cheerio John

Click to expand...

I will stick my oar in here to ask same question. I've been modding for almost ten years now and I've seen this happen in other venues. I come from the automobile racing simulation world and I watched as things progressed from a point where almost anyone willing to put in the work could model something for the early games to the point that only extremely talented artists could make content. At the same time games that would work on a middle of the road gaming PCs evolved to require very high end systems.

Is Trainz going down this same road? Is N3V, in an attempt to maintain parity with other game's graphics, adding layers of complexity that will challenge content creators to the point where they throw up their hands and move to some other endeavor?

Since N3V and Trainz seems to depend to some degree on user created content they could be painting themselves into a corner where they would be forced to purchase content or hire content creators.

There is a need to balance Trainz quality and the requirements/abilities of the average content creator. IMO

Very interesting post. I don't side with anyone and I am always interested to read differing points of view. I don't have the knowledge to contribute any facts in regard to many of the issues raised here.

I watched TRS since N3V took over and only recently returned for anniversary. I didn't do this without some research and I am quite happy with my decision.

Some positive things.
If the OP is indeed a lady and those gender comments are more than snide attacks, well that's just awesome that anyone who takes the time to learn can create top notch content and much kudos to them whatever their gender.

Great comments for less knowledgeable users in this thread regarding mapping etc thank you.

TRS has always been fascinating for me to observe through the years and all in all it provides exactly what I want and that is the option to just make routes or go all out and try content creation.
It is a love hate relationship as with anything that is worth persuing and will always give the user quite extreme highs and lows.
CheerZ!

normhart said:

Is Trainz going down this same road? Is N3V, in an attempt to maintain parity with other game's graphics, adding layers of complexity that will challenge content creators to the point where they throw up their hands and move to some other endeavor?

Click to expand...

Hard to blame N3V here, even without any upgrade to the trainz system, it's impossible to ignore the progression of the expected quality level for rolling stock and routes.

There will always be an expectation of progress in visual quality, even if N3V never update trainz again.

It's not just trainz either, you see the raised level of expectation in MSTS compared to how their assets looked 10 years ago, too.

Does it mean that some people will 'stop creating' ? Possibly, but it also means that others might be inspired too, and some will see the challenge of learning new techniques as part of the 'game' of creating. That's par for the course with a user-content driven simulation.

One thing is for sure, no other train simulator is going to come along and take control of the market with less complicated graphic standards.

As NikkiA has said, this is an expectation by much of the community (meaning those who buy/will buy Trainz).

However, that doesn't stop people from making content to 'basic' content styles, it just means that more options are available for those who wish to use them.

That said, at the same time, the 'basic' content does tend to look very basic compared to content to newer standards. This is where the issue of 'standards' comes in. Namely, if you have a train of 20 wagons with normals maps, specular maps, high detail meshes with LOD, etc and then a couple of 'basic' wagons mixed in, those basic wagons could begin to look rather odd.

Of course, the same goes the other way... A few years ago, a 'current' standard model tended to look silly, because there were very few items that matched it!

In a sense, the content creation hasn't gotten that much harder. In many ways, it's now easier, as you aren't as restricted by poly counts, or similar. That doesn't mean go completely nuts, but it does mean that you aren't trying to shave every little bit off to get it working 'just right' (except when you start building your LOD's ).

NikkiA said:

Hard to blame N3V here, ...

Does it mean that some people will 'stop creating' ? Possibly, but it also means that others might be inspired too, and some will see the challenge of learning new techniques as part of the 'game' of creating. That's par for the course with a user-content driven simulation.
....

Click to expand...

Anyone wondering who is continually raising the bar as far a s content is concerned, need only look in the mirror. We all ooh and aah over the latest super detailed model with working everything. And then some wonder why creation has become so difficult. Naturally if you don't have to follow the herd. You can still make simpler models for yourself and even upload them. They might even be appreciated for their simplicity and their ability to work on lower end systems.

martinvk said:

They might even be appreciated for their simplicity and their ability to work on lower end systems.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately a lot of people often correlate "simple" with "low quality".

Talking about things being "harder", I'd also have to point out that it's a very human reaction to dislike change. Whether content creation is "harder" or "easier" as compared to ten years ago, the negative point for some is that it's "different" which means more work relearning.

cheers,

chris

As to the Jet Engine, its still trotting out the same rather dodgy rain and weather effects used in the original Trainz. Very realistic! Night time driving just as bad so I don't use it. Any real objective view of Trainz is unlikey on this forum.

QR1408 said:

As to the Jet Engine, its still trotting out the same rather dodgy rain and weather effects used in the original Trainz. Very realistic! Night time driving just as bad so I don't use it. Any real objective view of Trainz is unlikey on this forum.

Click to expand...

I think you see some quite realistic and objective views aired but there are always tradeoffs. TS2009 always was more for developing content under the new engine than having content available.

The jet engine has the advantage that there is a lot of content available for it that works well. Yes it has its limitations but its well understood by content creators. Do I think everything that N3V does is wonderful, no but on the whole they don't do a bad job overall.

Cheerio John

QR1408 said:

As to the Jet Engine, its still trotting out the same rather dodgy rain and weather effects used in the original Trainz.

Click to expand...

I'd love to see trainz have the rain effects that Railworks3 or (better yet, as it's better (when it works) than Railworks3) OpenBVE/TSF...

But in the context of this thread, I think it's also important to note that both require additional work by content creators to support the weather effects. And when N3V end up implementing a more realistic weather system, it will require more work by content creators here too. And we're back to the 'gah, it's too hard to create for trainz now!'.