Baseboards

OK. So I am off to try and create a layout. I am new and while learning I wanted to be creating at the same time, (ie, All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!)

I have a couple questions about the Baseboard.

Size is 720m x 720m in Real Scale. Thus, 1 baseboard is equal to 1.38km or .857 miles. This would rerquire 2.235 baseboards to make a mile.

The layout I am looking at is the same one I had in mind when I started with Trainz 4 months ago. The D&RG routes. The Royal Gorge route from Cannon City to Salida alone is around 80 miles. This would require 188 baseboards.
Does this sound right? And would Trainz be able to create a layout that large?

I know these layouts require a large amount of time to create, but considering there are only a few stops between them locations, most of the layout would only consist of rock cliffs, trees and shrubs.

The other route from Pueblo Colorado to Cannon City would be the one with all the residential and commercial buildings as well as the main train yards in Pueblo.

Most cities on the Gorge route are no more than a couple of blocks long with less than 10 buildings in each. This would cut down on the build time, allowing no more than 1 day for each baseboard, (Excluding the boards that include the towns). Most of the route has only one mainline.

Is this posible? If it is, I do understand that it would take over a year to do something like this. I just don't want to start something and after 3 or 4 months of work, find that there is a limit to the number of baseboards or such.

Thanks,
Merrill

Size is 720m x 720m in Real Scale. Thus, 1 baseboard is equal to 1.38km

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Your maths is way out, 1 baseboard is equal to 720m (or 0.62 miles) because you need 1000m to equal 1km.

(ie, All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy!)

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Casting Crowns american dream right>?

pending on your comp.,the better, the bigger the route.........theyre are a few out theyre with a couple thousand boards.......

Maddox61

There is nothing in trainz that would stop you from building a layout of that size.

How long it takes depends on how quickly you master surveyor espically the copy and paste function and just how detailed you want to make the layout and how accurately you want to make it compared to the real route.

If you want to be extremelly accurate you may have to learn how to make a DEM of the actual route and it takes quite a while to learn how to do it.

I don't want to discurage you because you can get a lot of fun and enjoyment out of making a route.

Dave

Maddox61: The first thing is to check you computer specs to see that drivers are up to date and how much Ram you have(Memory)..I think you will find that a baseboard and Half is approximately 1 mile..There are Guides on the DLS that can guide you through mile Lengths, curves etc..Go for it..:wave: :wave:

BobCass said:

Maddox61: The first thing is to check you computer specs to see that drivers are up to date and how much Ram you have(Memory)..I think you will find that a baseboard and Half is approximately 1 mile..There are Guides on the DLS that can guide you through mile Lengths, curves etc..Go for it..:wave: :wave:

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Ok, here's a straight forward answer. Yes the route you are wanting is very much possible and do-able. The speed of the route depends on your computer. It takes two baseboards to make one mile. Yes one and half is more accurate,but you can't get half a board. The idea is take your time and have fun. If you have any questions please feel free to send me a pm, and I be more than happy to help you in any way I can.

Re number of baseboards

There are users on this forum who have mentioned they have routes with 10,000 plus baseboards! I'm sure they have awesome PCs.

I personally am working on a route that uses terrain-only maps by fishlipsatwork (Anchorage South and Anchorage North) combined and I'm sure there are 2,000 plus baseboards. Now most of these will remain wilderness and never developed except to be used as backgrounds for the main rail lines. I like terrain-only routes simply because until I get into TransDem, it's a good way to get realistic mountainous terrain.

Suggestion: Look at all the built-in routes in your version of Trainz, and particularly the largest ones. This will give you an idea of how large routes run on your particular computer.

In TS2010, I'm guessing ECML-King's Cross-York is the largest built-in route - anyone know how many baseboards? Many thousands for sure.

Working with a DEM is really hard !

Sure ... from looking from straight down you can get all the straights and curves correct ... but when you apply gradients, a 35 mile stretch can take days, and easily weeks to get all the gradients to be unlike a rollercoaster.

When you have a -3.76% grade, and the next section is +2.78% ... it can get real madning !

Most of my gradients are @ 0.40%, and at maximum 1.75%, the exception is the "Slide" witch is 2.37% and is used by downhill trains, as it is much too steep for a long train.

I could have created a route from Camden NJ, to Conway yard in Pittsburgh, if I had done it on flat baseboards ... I'm guessing @ 500,000 of them !:hehe:

Condencing that same route, to display only the great railfanning sites, could be done on only several hundered flat baseboards though.

schweitzerdude said:

There are users on this forum who have mentioned they have routes with 10,000 plus baseboards! I'm sure they have awesome PCs.

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Route size and computer 'awesomness' are utterly unrelated. You can run a 10,000 board route on any computer that is within spec. My original East Kentucky route was built on a machine below minimum spec for TRS04. What will grind a computer to a standstill is not the size of the route, but the content used on the route. When considering route performance the size of the route whether measured in miles, kilometers or baseboard count is irrelevant...

cascaderailroad said:

Working with a DEM is really hard...

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I know you struggle with it Cascade, but imho there is no easier way to make a 'big' route than use a DEM, specially something like the route proposed in the OP. If imported from HOG The DEM will give you something approximating the landform as seen by the railroad engineers before construction commenced. Laying the track through a 'virgin' landscape is probably the part of routebuilding that I enjoy the most. If that ain't your thing then using TransDEM will give you a route with the track already laid and the trackbed formed...

Andy

You mean to tell me that TransDEM will lay track and exact gradients, automaticly ?

Why are Scrachy, Others, and I, working adjusting gradients by hand ?

Then man that created my DEM, did it using very exact satelite data, and TransDEM ... but the railbed gradients are off quite a bit, and railbed contours need cutting, so gradients are not hugely way off from the prototype. See: ---> http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=729412&postcount=3

If TransDEM makes a routes gradients and lays track precisely ... why are not all routes in the world made allready ?

If it was so possible to precisely lay track automaticly ... a Horsehoe Curve route would have been made 6 years ago by someone who had payware TransDEM.

And a TransDEM route creator that had this tallent, would have a corner on a huge market, being able to charge on a commision, the creation of custom built TransDEM routes for other people.

TransDEM is only the mediator.

Basically there are two data sources for proper alignment, either an accurate DEM or accurate 3D track geometry in vector form. TransDEM can process both.

The easiest way is the high-res DEM. In one of the later postings in the other thread you refer to I showed an 1/9 arc sec NED DEM where you can make out the right-of-way in all details, cuttings, high-fills, locations of bridges and overpasses, tunnel portals, etc.

The alternative data source would be 3D track geometry. Admittedly, unless you have an excellent relationship with your favourite railroad company it will be difficult to acquire original data. Instead, it will be a DIY job in most cases, but it would be carried out with a dedicated CAD tool, not with Trainz Surveyor. TransDEM will take the completed 3D track geometry and adjust low-res DEM terrain accordingly (allow for occasional glitches). Challenge here is to find a suitable and affordable tool.

BLACKWATCH said:

Your maths is way out, 1 baseboard is equal to 720m (or 0.62 miles) because you need 1000m to equal 1km.

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I was half asleep.

BobCass

I checked on a number of different conversion calculators and I come up with,

1 mile is equal to 1609.344m to be exact and if the tables are 720m then 720m/1609.344m would be 2.2352 boards.
I double checked and 1 mile is 1.609km
Unless I am calculating this wrong.

Does Trainz recognize 1.5 boards as being 1 mile?

If so, then Trainz has a real bad flaw in calculating distance.

SOmeone is wrong. Maybe me, I don't know.

Trainz does not interpret 1.5 boards as a mile, that was a rough guess OK for made up fictitious routes. For true representations each board is 720 x 720 metres, no more no less. Work in metres when constructing and there isn't a problem.
The only restriction you have on number of boards is the capability of your PC. 80 miles may not seem like it but is small route compared to many routes and well within the capabilities of in spec PC's

One blank baseboard, Imperial Measurements, Ruler Tool in feet, from one side to the other. About two and one quarter baseboards to make one mile, by my calculations.

clam1952 said:

Trainz does not interpret 1.5 boards as a mile, that was a rough guess OK for made up fictitious routes. For true representations each board is 720 x 720 metres, no more no less. Work in metres when constructing and there isn't a problem.
The only restriction you have on number of boards is the capability of your PC. 80 miles may not seem like it but is small route compared to many routes and well within the capabilities of in spec PC's

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Thanks clam1952,

That had me a bit spooked.

I'm using a 4gig win 7/64bit,only downfall is it has a buildt in Graphics card. I just baught it about 2 months ago. I now know I should have had one buildt for me rather buy a packaged system.

Trouble is, I checked on installng a new card and bumping the ram up to 8gigs, but found out that I then would need to upgrade the power supply to run everything. And that would require me to replace the motherboard.

I'm kinda in a catch-22, so I am going to try and make due with this one for a bit before I go and spend another bundle on another new PC.

Besides, I gotta sleep with the wife!

Euphod said:

One blank baseboard, Imperial Measurements, Ruler Tool in feet, from one side to the other. About two and one quarter baseboards to make one mile, by my calculations.

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Good deal Euphod,

Thanks,

And many thanks for all the speedy replies, you have all been a greate help.

Maddox61 said:

Good deal Euphod,

Thanks,

And many thanks for all the speedy replies, you have all been a greate help.

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I used the same method for making Mileage markers at signals etc.. i got about 10 miles and its been pretty accurate going by the custom HUD

TransDem

I have finished the terrain map last night as far as the ellevations for the entire route.

I have it boken down into 20 maps, each is set at 2048 x 2048 and is broken down into an 8 x 8 grid consististing of 64 smaller maps at 256 x256 each. Each of these 256 x 256 maps will be broken down to 1km x 1km sections.

I was going to map the terrain manualy but would like to know more about this TrainsDem program.

I tried to get the TransDem and the site I found was not in English and I could not understand how to get the program.

If anyone knows of an English version or can direct me to the site for the download, I would be very grateful.

Thanks again.

Merrill

Merrill,

This might help:

http://www.rolandziegler.de/StreckeUndLandschaft/transdemTrainz_Engl.htm

John