Billegulla

comtrain

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Everybody.
Victrainz like so many Trainzers mourn the loss of Bill Fock. Bill was a great friend and member of VicTrainz, and in a few years created many fine assets for us all to enjoy in Trainz.
Recently a member of Trainz has upgraded some of Bill's engines, but instead of uploading it as an upgrade for use with Trainz 10 or 12, chose to upload it under his own name. Trainz has in place a means of upgrading assets for use in later versions, which preserves the original KUIDS.

VicTrainz has made contact with Bills son Andrew who (we presume) now owns all rights, including copyrights to Bills engines. We understand that all agreements that may have been made with Bill when he was alive, should be shown to Andrew, and I suspect approved to continue, or not as will be his right to decide.
VicTrainz members were working closely with Bill before his passing, and we have deferred any uploads until we can get Andrews permission to continue.
We do need to give Andrew time to sort out Bills affairs, and we decided not to make any public announcements till Andrew returned from overseas and had spoken with us.

Unfortunately the recent uploads of Bills 400 Class Garratt and the 59 Class (shared construction with Ad60200) has thrown a spanner in the works.

The announcement we would have liked to have made, would have gone something along these lines.

Bill Fock joined a group of people in Melbourne who met regularly and formed a Trainz Group called VicTrainz. Bill was active in forming this group, and the group helped Bill to gain the necessary skills to build his fine models. The group did most of the beta testing and prepared a lot of the photographs and research for each project.

VicTrainz would like to do two things. The first would be to take control of Bills mesh's and undertake to keep these models upgraded so that they operate into all future versions of Trainz, where ever this is at all possible.
The input for this upgrading would be available to all trainz members whether they are members of VicTrainz or not.
Our memorial to Bill would be to keep Bills unique Kuid and name open and to upload all modifications under Bills existing Kuid.
The name will come up in the DLS folders time and time again. We believe this will be a fitting memorial to a great man, a good friend and a generous Trainz builder for all of us.

So please refrain from uploading Bills stuff under your own name. It is not right, and perhaps even illegal until the family decides what actions are to be taken. Remember no matter what agreements you think you might have, they must now be renewed with the new owners of Bills Property, and that at the moment is Bills legal Executors.
Thank you for listening
Rod Young
for VicTrainz
 
Not right ... perhaps even illegal

Hi Rod --

"It is not right, and perhaps even illegal until the family decides what actions are to be taken."


While you did not name me in the post, a quick scan of the Download Station will quickly show that I was the person who uploaded the TS12 versions of the Garratt and D59.

I'm very concerned about your assertion of possible illegal activity. If it is correct I certainly apologise and will ask for the content to be immediately removed from the Download Station.

But before I do that I will need an assurance that I have engaged in illegal behaviour.

Phil
 
My take is if you have received permission in the past from a content creator then that permission is still valid even if the content creator dies.

Occasionally the executor will open up the permissions as in the case of Elvenor where the content creator had granted permission to some people to reskin in the past but the executor was happy to allow anyone to reskin provided credit was given and it was not to be sold, ie only freeware reskins were permitted.

I've known at least one case were two people worked closely together and the deceased left their password and account details to the other person so content could be updated in their name which I think is what is trying to be achieved here.

Cheerio John
 
I think Vic Trainz intentions are right, and honorable. I know some groups have their own kuid, perhaps Bill's could become Vic Trainz group kuid, as a further memorial to him. I'm sure Phil is sensitive to the situation, but did not want to see content lost to the future, so went ahead and did what he previously had permission to do. Permission to reskin is usually given casually, I doubt every time someone grants permission that they draw up a set of documents to legalize it.

It may seem wrong, but what's the harm really? I could upload dozens of reskins of other author's work, but that doesn't take away from their work.(Oh wait...I have!) I'm sure if Bill's catalog of models is eventually allowed to be maintained by VicTrainz, using his kuid, no number of other publications of his work will dilute the memory, the honor, and the significance of what he achieved.
 
Hi Rod --

"It is not right, and perhaps even illegal until the family decides what actions are to be taken."


While you did not name me in the post, a quick scan of the Download Station will quickly show that I was the person who uploaded the TS12 versions of the Garratt and D59.

I'm very concerned about your assertion of possible illegal activity. If it is correct I certainly apologise and will ask for the content to be immediately removed from the Download Station.

But before I do that I will need an assurance that I have engaged in illegal behaviour.

Phil

Hi Phil
Yes mate, I know how you feel. In all cases when talking about this with Victrainz members and the Focks, I have stressed that I believe you were doing the right thing as you saw it.
Unfortunately, it now seems, VicTrainz thought it was too soon to make any announcements about what we planned, particularly so close to Bill's passing, and before we gave the family a bit of space after Bills funeral.
I am pretty sure we can work all this out and preserving your upgrades will be as important as preserving this living memorial to our mate Billegulla.
Several of our members already have Bill's mesh's and have upgrades nearly ready to be released. These will not be released till permission is obtained.
Phil can I suggest you contact Auran, if you have not already done so?

Now some locomotives were built outside of Victrainz. Several in New Zealand and one recent LMS British engine. I wonder if those that assisted Bill in these engines might contact me so that I can let the family know how you would like to handle control of these mesh's. You may already know what Bill wanted to do?

Victrainz, should they get control of the "billegulla" kuid, would be happy to assist you guys in updating these models and uploading them under Billegulla.

Anybody who has an idea for a "fix" or upgrade is very welcome to help us keep this project ongoing
Thanks Phil
Cheers
Rod
 
I think Vic Trainz intentions are right, and honorable. I know some groups have their own kuid, perhaps Bill's could become Vic Trainz group kuid, as a further memorial to him. I'm sure Phil is sensitive to the situation, but did not want to see content lost to the future, so went ahead and did what he previously had permission to do. Permission to reskin is usually given casually, I doubt every time someone grants permission that they draw up a set of documents to legalize it.

It may seem wrong, but what's the harm really? I could upload dozens of reskins of other author's work, but that doesn't take away from their work.(Oh wait...I have!) I'm sure if Bill's catalog of models is eventually allowed to be maintained by VicTrainz, using his kuid, no number of other publications of his work will dilute the memory, the honor, and the significance of what he achieved.

Well said.
VicTrainz already have a group KUID. It is 1854 which also has a meaning. It was the year the first Railway started operating in Australia. The Melbourne and Hobsons Bay Railway Company started running trains from Melbourne Town to Port Melbourne. Actually I believe group kuids are a bit of a pain. For some reason almost every download shows me, comtrain as the creator and I am the least qualified in the whole group. Cannot draw two straight lines much less create the stuff that appears under my name, sadly. The family would need to grant us permission to use Billegulla, and that appears to have been agreed to. That will be the best option, I think.

I hate copyright discussions. They are a minefield and bring out the worst in people. I can't stress enough Phil is a great Trainzer, and I believe we can find a way around this.
But as well I am disappointed that our shiny new memorial appeared to have taken a bit of damage before we got it out there. I sure hope we get the chance to honour our friend in the near future. :)
Cheers
Rod
 
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Having worked with Bill on many models using his meshes or part thereof and he doing the same with my meshes on one occasion I believe this is the correct thing to do.
I would also like to point out that the 2009 version of the K1 garratt released by Bill contains my meshes with upgrade engine files to take advantage of features not available in 2004. these meshes may not be uploaded without my permission, or that of victrainz.

cheers
pete
 
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