Good old days complaint

Hmmm. Well, gotta keep in mind it might be a subjective impression, you get robbed by a left handed red haired American one day and it's natural to dislike all left handed red haired Americans for a while afterwards. The land mass of the UK is about the size of California and Nevada as I recall, don't remember what the population difference is but you gotta keep in mind there are a lot of us. In the screenshot forum is a USA thread and a UK thread, difference should reflect whatever the Yankee Doodle to Redcoat ratio is, but it don't;

USA pics; 12,883 posts 1,165,584 views
UK pics; 11,242 posts 1,221,674 views

Considering the difference in population the USA should be way ahead, but it's actually about even, indicating a higher percentage of Brits interested in Trainz.

Anyway, back to the good old days, I was with MSTS in the good old days. I recently found the copy of the February 2003 Model Railroader magazine that had a couple pics of my MSTS route in it;

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=649761&l=6cdad95837&id=100001028687859

From the same issue, can anyone ID the routes and creators featured in the Trainz article?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=649760&l=e0edde9c34&id=100001028687859

Dep said:

For me, the "golden year" of Trainz was 2004.

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I agree, the 2004 release was a revolution in the Trainz lineage - the addition of interactive industries and transportable cargoes (including passengers) made the sim come alive. I could be wrong on this but the current AI interface and driver control system was also introduced in that version (or am I merely looking back at the "good old days" through rose coloured glasses?).

The releases since then (2006, 2009, 2010, 12) have been more or less evolutionary developments on 2004, some with a greater "quantum leap" than others. although each have had its usual share of problems.

Dep said:

Newer releases left me pretty lukewarm to feeling downright ripped off. I'm pretty happy with TS2012AE ... Only disappointing thing for me was the hardware demands and the performance hit of the Speedtrees. I just don't think they are worth it.

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While I never felt "ripped off" with each new purchase, I was a bit "underwhelmed" with 2009 - it just took too long for content creators to come to grips with it - look at all the new content that is only now flooding in for 2009. I agree that 12 is by far the best of the whole lineage. I like speedtrees but, like any asset on the DLS, you need to select which ones to use.

Dep said:

As to newer editons of Trainz being aimed at Americans...I see that as Trainz playing "catchup" after ignoring America in the earlier releases. So it all balances out.

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ditto for China and Eastern Europe.

Peter Ware

My original good old Trainz days were when TRSs2004 ruled the rails. By the time SP4 was installed, it was quite a simulator. A great combination of ease of use and capabilities. Easy to get under the hood, so to speak and tweak various parts. And then there was Trainztools. With that controlling the assets, wonders were achieved.

But that was then and this is now. Having skipped several subsequent versions, I finally got back on track with TS2009 and have continued today to TS12. Each one an improving and adding to my enjoyment.

As for the world wide scope of Trainz, I always appreciated that there was an effort to include a sampling of rolling stock from many different countries.

The forum also reflected that diversity. This, not just during the good old days but even today. A quick look at the countries list shows that there are still many people from many countries among our ranks. I think the list could use some cleanup since some countries are listed multiple times using different names or abbreviation.

Vern said:

So far as the forums are concerned, maybe it's a preconception but most of the gimmie pig/text speak/gramatically incorrect/I saw a train today style posts do seem to come from "junior" in one of the 49 (or should that be 50?) states of the US.

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57 states if you believe our current president. And he visited all of them.

I have no doubt that the interest in real trains in the USA is pretty slim and dimishing daily. Nowadays most folks (including kids) consider them an inconvenience that stops them from gettting where they are going in their cars. Where they are going is playing soccer, video games, and going to eat at McDonalds. When we were kids the whole family used to be fascinated by watching passing boxcars from all different railroads and parts of the country. Now there are very few railroad companies in the USA and kids have very little interest in them. When I said this on the Lionel forum, they ripped into me like crazy. But those guys wear those rose-colored glasses all the time. Since coming back to Trainz with 2012, I have made a few friends from other countries on this forum and have PMed them. Of course, I am sure I have made a few enemies because I am outspoken and don't hold back.

Dep

The earlier versions of Trainz were really the golden years for everyone. This was when Auran's big guys were fully involved with the forums, and long before the big crash and then the corporate changes when Fury took everything off on a big spiraling tangent.

Anyway. All the old versions had their great points and I look at them as stepping stones to get us to where we will be, hopefully.

Bill - I remember the thread too. I recall it was really anyone who didn't see his point of view was knocked at. Typical of someone trying to get a community up in a snit of a rather hot topic right now.

The community I too noticed has gone mostly American, and a along with that a younger, less mature, market as well. Times are changing, and i wish I had a magic clock where I could turn the hands back to another time and start over, or maybe not!

John

One thing that indicates those good old days!

How many here can remember the excitement over the Khristmas Kroc 'gift' to all the trainz users? :udrool:

On Topic and no political comments please.

Cheers

AJ

Someday "the good old days" of these forums will be the days you could still read the words on the screen. Or maybe the days your health actually allowed you to sit up long enough to use the PC to get to the forums. For some, the good old days will be way back before you had to sell your PC or laptop in order to pay the bills. Maybe you'll have a library with PCs close enough to walk to after the angry mobs steal yours. Maybe the libraries will still be funded, and still be open. Maybe the streets will be safe enough to actually walk down. The "good old days" will certainly depend on your experiences in life.

One observation I will make about changes seems to be related to entertainment, advertising, and the world in general. It may not be, and probably isn't limited to these forums, but I find it amusing none the less. Have you noticed the advertising lately for many television shows, the ones targeted at the masses? The "Tow Truck" shows and the "Pawn Shop" shows and the "Sheriff this or that" shows. I swear they are daring me to NOT watch the programs, every commercial has a bunch of low life's standing with their arms crossed, glaring out at you, like they want to show you how tough they think they are?

Yeah, I've noticed that attitude creeping into the forums too.

Usually, if a person lives long enough, they look back upon that behavior and cringe...

Yea Ed I know what you mean. Does it seem to you too that all the new CD jackets have group members that all look angry for some reason?

But that is off topic. Anyway it was a beautiful day here in Cali today. High temp was like 78 F.

Cheers

AJ

shaneturner12 said:

"Interfering with, criticising and / or publicly commenting about moderation decisions. Messages commenting on or criticizing forum administrative actions will be removed without warning. Any complaints or disagreements regarding forum or chat room moderation should be made by contacting Helpdesk."

Shane

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I wasn't talking about the mod descision, I was talking about the actions of the forum members that were talking about the good old days

Jamie

Hi Everybody.

Dep said:

I have no doubt that the interest in real trains in the USA is pretty slim and dimishing daily. Nowadays most folks (including kids) consider them an inconvenience that stops them from gettting where they are going in their cars. Where they are going is playing soccer, video games, and going to eat At McDonalds. When we were kids the whole family used to be fascinated by watching passing boxcars from all different railroads and parts of the country. Now there are very few railroad companies in the USA and kids have very little interest in them.
Dep

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To get the thread back on topic, I believe the above very thoughtful post from Dep along with the one from John Citron is perhaps another reason why European and American forum members view things so differently.

I am always amazed that so many American forum members never or very rarely ever see a train. There is a thread which I think is still ongoing entitled train sightings which invites members to report when they actually see a train and when.. The thread has been exclusively populated with postings from America members advising on their sightings and how rare it is to witness such events.

In contrast to that here in Britain and throughout Western Europe (if it is still permissible to call it that) train sightings are an everyday event. In Britain parts of Scotland and North Wales would be the exception to that but the large majority of the population in the UK live within a couple of miles of railway. Along with the foregoing the use of railways has become once again a common event for both work commuting and recreational trips.

With the above in mind there is perhaps two distinct communities on the Trainz forum one of which would be members who perceive their railways through books, photos and memories without actually having any real experience of that transportation in any part of their lives. The other would be those of us who see and use railways as part of their work, recreation and hobby.

The above would account for the diversification between European and America members who see things from two totally different spectrums. Britain and Europe with its growing use of railways, by contrast America with its much smaller networks and which is still debating there future.

Bill

wholbr said:

I am always amazed that so many American forum members never or very rarely ever see a train. There is a thread which I think is still ongoing entitled train sightings which invites members to report when they actually see a train and when.. The thread has been exclusively populated with postings from America members advising on their sightings and how rare it is to witness such events.

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Bill, I read that thread and thought it was only asking if people had seen a train. I was going to reply and say "I've seen a train", but thought I might get flamed for trying to be humourous.

Not posting from a train today I see.

wholbr said:

I am always amazed that so many American forum members never or very rarely ever see a train.
Bill

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Bill, a very well thought out post except for you being amazed. It's not very amazing at all. Great Britain has 10,106 miles of standard gauge rail compared to 140,490 miles of the US (2006 figures), but considering the vast expanse of the US that rail must traverse, it's not really amazing at all that many in the U.S. never see a rail. The exception would probably be the eastern seaboard and the NE corridor where rail traffic is a common part of the landscape. Even with all of the rail mileage in the U.S., common passenger traffic is uncommon in most of the U.S.

It's very difficult to compare the two systems and cultures. I'm not saying that either is better, they're just different.

Mike

Hi pfx, leefer and everybody.

pfx said:

Bill, I read that thread and thought it was only asking if people had seen a train. I was going to reply and say "I've seen a train", but thought I might get flamed for trying to be humourous.

Not posting from a train today I see.

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pfx bringing humour to this forum these days can be a very hazardous business. I posted what I thought was a somewhat funny posting yesterday after I arrived home, only to finish up with more flames coming out of me than a Guy Falkes on bonfire night.

Also,I am definitely not posting from a train today after spending more than seven hours traveling down from Edinburgh yesterday. (I believe that used to be your neck of the woods originally pfx). However, despite all my travels I had never been to Edinburgh before and was very impressed. Having said that, It is not very often you see a city without roads just the holes where they used to be. I spent some considerable time scratching my head trying to figure out why they were digging so many holes everywhere and nobody seemed to keen to explain, and I just cannot understand why.

leeferr said:

Bill, a very well thought out post except for you being amazed. It's not very amazing at all. Great Britain has 10,106 miles of standard gauge rail compared to 140,490 miles of the US (2006 figures), but considering the vast expanse of the US that rail must traverse, it's not really amazing at all that many in the U.S. never see a rail. The exception would probably be the eastern seaboard and the NE corridor where rail traffic is a common part of the landscape. Even with all of the rail mileage in the U.S., common passenger traffic is uncommon in most of the U.S.

It's very difficult to compare the two systems and cultures. I'm not saying that either is better, they're just different.

Mike

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Thank you for the compliment Mike (I am always open to them). However, You make a very good point in comparing the size of the countries against the railway track mileage plus size of population. I have never had a great interest in American railways so this may sound a naïve question, but do the western seaboard states and cities have any railways whatsoever. I have always imagined that cities such as Los Angeles and San Francisco would be connected to other states and cities by a railway network or is that just my imagination.

Also what percentage of the population of America as a rough guess do you reckon would witness a rail movement of any kind in the course of a 12 month.

Bill.

wholbr said:

Also,I am definitely not posting from a train today after spending more than seven hours traveling down from Edinburgh yesterday. (I believe that used to be your neck of the woods originally pfx). However, despite all my travels I had never been to Edinburgh before and was very impressed. Having said that, It is not very often you see a city without roads just the holes where they used to be. I spent some considerable time scratching my head trying to figure out why they were digging so many holes everywhere and nobody seemed to keen to explain, and I just cannot understand why.

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Hi Bill.

You're correct with the Edinburgh connection regarding me. I decided I would take a risk with the humour though as I think it's becoming more rare around here these days though you can always rely on a few 'old' faithfuls to come up with the comedic stylings...

As for the holes in the roads, I take it you mean on Princes Street and perhaps further afield too. I can only guess you haven't heard of the Embra trams debacle? That is mostly to blame for roadworks around the city centre and of huge embarrassment to the council and even greater annoyance to traders and residents. This site http://www.edinburghtrams.com/ gives the glitzy side but what has actually happened is the biggest pantomime since Snow White at the Kings Theatre.

I hope you enjoyed Embra otherwise? Spent 10 years there and since we seem to have an American/European thing going here, I'll share a few tourist related musings, the most common of which you've probably heard as being asked on Princes Street, "Where is the castle?". Having now been there, you'll know how mad this is. I was also asked for a pint of eighty slash dash when I worked in a bar. I was at a loss so asked the customer what he meant and he pointed to the tap marked 80/- (which for those who don't know, is referred to as eighty shilling or heavy).

Ever been to ten N A? Nope? Nor me but when you see it on the map it's IONA. Harhar. Finally, standing outside the Balmoral Hotel at Waverley Station, I was asked how to get to Waterloo Palace. After a few minutes conversation and finally a map being used, I explained to the visitors that what they were looking for was Waterloo Place which was directly across the street.

I'm sure I could make an idiot of myself if I were to visit the states and asked where to catch the Chatanooga Choo Choo how to get to bum****, Idaho (sorry if anyone is offended by the fruity language).

I am, perhaps, veering away from the good old days which I currently deem to be the 80s during my high school days. I think I may be having the rumblings of a midlife crisis which is why I may see them as the halcyon days. No desire to buy a Vespa yet though. I'm happy to 'play' with the locos at the local heritage railway.

Cheers,
Innis

Big thing is the importance of where and when - when I was a wee tot, President Dwight D Eisenhower decreed There Shall Be An Interstate Highway System. That was built, it became practical to travel by car without carrying seven spare tires and a mechanic, along with cheap gas that made it practical to ship medium distances by truck, along with the Boeing 707 which made it cheaper for more people to travel by air. Early 60s began the decline of American railroads simply because people and freight flocked to alternatives. What did not decline was urban mass transit railroads, since traffic jams and the expense of downtown parking lots means most big city commuters still commute by rail today.

The importance of where - My oldest son's wife grew up on a farm in central Wisconsin, her dad is about my age, and he mentioned that he never saw a train until he was 16 years old - I never saw a farm tractor until I was 19. Where I grew up on the west side of Chicago there were three rapid transit elevated lines, two city belt railways, six major railroads and about a dozen second class railroads within a couple miles of my house. Looking out the kitchen window I could see the Lake Street Elevated, the Chicago & NorthWestern, and the Belt Railway of Chicago at the same time, very rare for an hour to go by even on Sunday without seeing at least one train. People who don't live near railroad centers (and Chicago is still the railroad hub of the universe even today) won't see many trains, people who live near them will see more.

Some stats from National Geographic;

USA;
Population: 296,483,000
Area: 9,826,630 square kilometers (3,794,083 square miles)

UK;
Population: 60,068,000
Area: 242,910 square kilometers (93,788 square miles)

Someone else can do the math, but basically there's a lot more empty space in the US.

Hi Everybody.

sniper297 said:

Some stats from National Geographic;

USA;
Population: 296,483,000
Area: 9,826,630 square kilometers (3,794,083 square miles)

UK;
Population: 60,068,000
Area: 242,910 square kilometers (93,788 square miles)

Someone else can do the math, but basically there's a lot more empty space in the US.

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As you so rightly point out with your statistics sniper there is a lot more empty space in the USA. However, Britain is now one of the most heavily populated countries in the world per head per square mile. That undoubtedly has brought about the rebirth of rail transport for the simple reason that you cannot guarantee to get anywhere by road at a specific time these days.

Thus many of us have little option but to turn back to the train, although it is a much better option (or will be if they can get rid of the overcrowding)

pfx, great to hear of your past in Edinburgh though I suspect there would be much you would not care to tell us.

As I stated I have never traveled much in Scotland and although I was buried in a meeting in Edinburgh for much of the short period I was there, it has really wet my appetite to see and travel more in the land of your birth, if ever I get round to actually retiring.

Bill

The good old days....?

I, sometimes, wonder where they went!!!

wholbr said:

<snip> ...and although I was buried in a meeting in Edinburgh for much of the short period I was there, .... <snip>

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Wow, how interesting to hear from someone who was once buried and then rose!

Sorry, had to post this.

Regards,

Retro.