Trs2010 Steam Engines Sounds very bad!

Zec I completly understand what you are saying.

:D I have been tryng for weeks to figure out exactly what you just stated. I am going to atempt to find and record some good steam sounds on a Digital Mini Disc unit and get the Chuffs and complete acceleration of a Steam Engine. My Uncle and I like going to canada on those Steam trips when we can. I see your point about needing many sound files to cover the range of speeds. I do hear, that it will need some time stretching for the files but not as many that is happening in the config file. There are at least 10 or 11 or more instances of rpms happening. I adjusted some of the time shifts and got good results of that shifting effect through trial an error. I will keep working on it for you and if I get it solved I will be more than happy to give you the solution so as to make Trainz as virtual as possible.:)
 
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Yes, but none of this addresses the problem I'm experiencing of the sound just fading in and out and there being hardly any engine sound at all most of the time except, strangely, when engines are idling, in which case they seem to be terribly loud and can be heard for miles!

Paul
 
I posted something about this in another thread in the Content Creation Support section, but since it seems germane to this thread I thought I'd post something here as well.

I've been experimenting with creating and using different steam sound files in Trainz, with a goal in mind to develop more realistic (and more pleasing) steam soundz for Trainz. In each video, a Trainz steam locomotive accelerates from 0-40MPH, workings its way through 13 different sound files @ different RPMs. I find Trainz' infamous pitch-shifting of the sound samples more noticeable on some sound-samples than on others, and also more noticeable at certain speed transitions vs. other speed, but that's just me -- I'd like to hear what others think.

You can view/listen to the videos here, at YouTube.
 
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The best that I have heard so far! Keep up the good work.:D

I've added a new video of yet another steam sound experiment, based on actual sound recordings of "chuffs" from the NKP #765, 2-8-4 type steam locomotive. You can look-at/listen-to the video, which I've entitled Modern Medium-Sized American Locomotives, at YouTube.

I will have to ask a question here. What system do you propose instead of 'on the fly changes'?

I wanted to comment on some of the things you brought up, so here goes...

Time-shifting (with no pitch-shifting) would be preferable to pitch-shifting. It's possible to raise/lower the tempo of given loop without raising its pitch via software. The altered sound does tend to "fall apart" if you stretch it by a great deal, but mild changes aren't bad (sounding).

Most all of today's audio editors allow for time-shifting (without pitch change), and many of today's audio production software can perform the same "live", in real-time -- for example, Fruity Loops or Apple's Garage Band, both can stretch/shrink "loops" to faster or slower tempos without changing the pitch of the recordings and can do so in real-time.

Would you prefer the content creator to have to create hundreds of separate sound files? Of course, to do this, you would need to manually make the same changes as Trainz itself makes anyway, since not all recordings are at the exact speed that you want...

Maybe it's time to rethink the process -- at least for the _production_ of sound loops. There's no need to "reinvent the wheel", so to speak -- there's a technique that be around for decades -- "sample-based synthesis" -- a techniques that have been widely used since the 1980s, but dates back to (at least) the 1950-60s.

In regards to music: If you want to emulate a violin section, you simply record a few _notes_ played with the instruments range, in different playing styles, rather than attempting to recording a "sequence" of notes. So, for example, rather than recording Beethoven's string quartets in its entirety, you simply a record a small number of (individual) musical notes, from each of the four string instruments, in a variety of playing styles that would be typically used within the string quartets. Once that's done, you simply "playback" the musical piece via a keyboard or music sequencer.

In regards to Trainz: You shouldn't need to assemble a great number of sound "samples" (although "more" usually means "better" sound). In this example video, I used only a total of 24 different "chuffs", recorded at about 3 different speeds. If I had unfettered access to a good variety of steam locomotive "chuffs", I produce a _wide_ variety of sound loops for use in Trainz. But the samples would need to be free of ambient noise and of "decent" sound quality, as well as being licensed from the sound's creator. Unfortunately, _all_ of those characteristics are things you won't find on most available recordings commonly found commercially or online.

No matter what, the sounds will need to be 'stretched' or 'shrunk' in some way to ensure that they play in time with the wheels. Granted, it does loose quality. However, this is the only way to create variable speed/rate sounds (note, we could just turn Trainz into movie clips, with no control, but then you do loose that simulator idea). Of course, there are also limits based off the sound card. Even a high end sound card can only handle so many sounds. Changing the actual file to another file too quickly will effect performance, and sound quality (since you would need to 'overlay' the two sound files more often).

Using "sample-based synthesis" techniques, you can playback the original sampled "notes" at whatever tempo you'd like, _without_ the need to change the pitch from its original value, under most circumstances.

However, using this as a "playback" method wouldn't be ideal -- ideally, if the sound loops are _produced_ using "sample-based synthesis" techniques, then one can create the loops at whatever tempo you'd want, be it a@ 30RPM or 200RPM.

As a note, the sound files used by the Blue Comet are the 2 cylinder sounds from TC3 (which has become a 'base' sound for TC3+ 2 cylinder steam locomotives). Mainly because it's rather difficult to record the Blue Comet now, and since the cost of having the appropriate recordings created is not viable (would require supplying someone with equipment, then having them travel to the US, plus time recording, editing, etc, etc). In reality, the G3s locos are using a Black 5's sound recording (not that it really sounds out of place, these are a decent size loco, with a decent exhaust beat, which is pretty close to most 'mid size' 2 cylinder locos).

Please indulge me, while I "harp" on something -- American steam locomotives did and still do sound very different from their European counterparts. I can remember reading a good many comments in articles written in the 1950s-60s in a variety of railroading and model railroad magazines about those tonal differences. To use a popular term used by many write regarding the tonal differences, the European locomotives were described as sounding "softer" than the American locomotives. My father worked as a fireman and engineer on the Virginian/N&W during the steam era and I can remember listening to a conversation he had with some of the older railroaders that had been in Europe, as members of the U.S. Military Railway Service during WWII, about the "different" sound of U.S. vs European steam locomotives.

Unfortunately, if we wanted to have 'perfect' loco sounds, we would need someone to go out and spend a few days recording the sounds from the loco in question, and try to edit out a separate sound file for each minute change in speed (lets say, a file for every 'rpm' rate from 0 to 150 - thats 150 files for your 'chuff' alone!).

Actually, if you used "sample-based synthesis" techniques you could get by with recording only a _few_ samples of sound, recorded at very basic tempos, from slow to fast. The results wouldn't be "perfect" (nothing is, in this world) but the results would be "excellent", and far cheaper to produce than attempting to record 150 different loops -- or even the 15 or so loops that Trainz actually would require for most steam locomotives under its present setup.

This removes some of the need for 'stretching' on the fly, but then adds the need for stretching by the creator instead. If this were the case, it's likely that you would have maybe one low quality sound asset, and that is all. Instead of having a number of good quality sound assets, which have a good (maybe not perfect, but a good) sound in-game.

Again, you don't need to "stretch" much, if any, using "sample-based synthesis" techniques.

Granted, my examples above are fairly extreme. However, would this not be required if you removed the 'stretching' for the sound files in Trainz? You still need to cover different speeds, and ensure that they 'transition' between the speeds.

The details of how "sample-based synthesis" techniques work (in regards to producing Trainz steam sound loops) are beyond the scope of this posting, but I can put something together than explains the technique and make it available online.
 
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Awesome you are getting it so much better!

Keep up the good work! I am very impressed with what you have done with the steam sounds so far. And I am very picky about Steam Sounds.:D

Very impressive Graphics also, very smooth.
 
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Keep up the good work! I am very impressed with what you have done with the steam sounds so far. And I am very picky about Steam Sounds.:D ...

Thanks. I put a sound sets up on the Download Station -- KUID: 123250:1103 -- if you or anyone else cares to try it out.
 
Chuffs per Revolution

The Blue Comet is not correct with it's sound pyhsics and is way wrong! There are to be 2 chugs for every complete revolution of the large driver wheel when power is applied and they have set up 4 chugs, also at high speed it sounds like a sewing maching, and that is not acceptible for Payware content. Also the steam is very bad for realizism. I have freeware that is way better than the Blue Comet's steam. All in all the Blue Comet is poor in my thoughts for realizism

Not to be a jerk but what you are saying about chuffs are not true. A two cylinder locomotive like most in the U.S. should have 4 chuffs be revolution of the drivers. The drive rods on a steam locomotive are to be set at a 90 degree offset. Each time the crosshead goes back and forth it chuffs twice. Because the side rods are not at the same place at the same time or 180 degrees off you hear 4 chuffs. You only hear two chuffs on 1 cylinder locomotives or locomotives that are out of time. 3 cylinder locomotive like many in the U.K. have 6 chuffs per rev. Before you criticize know your facts. If have any other steam related questions ask.
 
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TRS2010

Read all of my complaints and you will see that the Chuff's statements where solved a long time ago and was not really my main concern. You are very late in your response to the problems I have been having with the Steam sounds in general & many other issues with the TRS2010. You need to read the whole thread before making any judgements at me. I have long deleted Trainz2010 as it is the worst that I have ever seen for all of the problems that it has. I lost interest in it months aga so I do not care anymore about how many chuffs it should have.:n:
 
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Funnily enough, I was running one of LMS_MAN's Duchess Pacifics on my layout yesterday and whether the chuffs were right or wrong was difficult to say as it was so, well, quiet. It hardly made a sound at all while it was running. Meanwhile the pesky sound of diesels idling in the yard could be heard miles away! :eek:

Paul
 
Exactly!

No more needs to be said. Lol.:D Thanks for your relpies Paul, and to all of the positive people that has tried to help me.:) I am back with my good old TRS2006 now and everything works great. I may not have the eye candy as the Trs2010 has but I want reliability and my draw distance is working good, with Trs2006. My diesel's sounds did the same thing. Up close I could hardly hear them as they fade away and from a distance they roar. I wish Auran would fix the 2010, as I did like the Car'z effects and some other little improvments & the adjustable speed limits for the carz.
 
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Is there any way to gain access to the texture files for the Blue Comet coach? Like Paul said there is no DRM, just a rudimentary protection you can get around in about a minute. How do you do that? How do you open texture files to edit them? I really want to repaint the exterior of the coach but not overwrite the original, but create a new coach file.
YES! I THINK I might have found a way to edit it! Not sure if this is going to work. There's an option in 2010 CMP to save to CDP. I did and then opened the CDP with Trainz 2004 CDP. It saved to Trainz 2004 Dispatcher folder with all the files open. Now, I have to figure out how to open the texture file and edit it and resave, and edit the config, then send it back over to 2010 or even attempt to open it in 2004 if that will work. var geo_Partner = 'e4f5c72a-6083-499d-94f4-929aa4d23e06'; var geo_isCG = true;var geo_Partner = 'e4f5c72a-6083-499d-94f4-929aa4d23e06'; var geo_isCG = true;
 
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