simulatortrain
jointed freaking rails
Just remember that coal is 45% of North American railroads' tonnage and 25% of their revenue. You'd be crazy to want that gone.
For anyone against burning coal...
- Thread starter simulatortrain
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cascaderailroad
New member
Over 75 trains per day, leave the Powder River Coal Basin, bound for power plants in the East. At just one Florida Power & Light electric generating station, they burn up one coal hopper of powderized coal each and every 5 minutes, of the day, 365 days per year. Now that's something to be proud of !
Why would the general public, railfans, or any model railroader care if all the coal traffic was totally eliminated...if we had an alternative power source. The Coal business is as dirty as Oil business is, fithty rich, polution galore, deliberately holding back on future development of alternative fuel sources, all for their own immediate short term greed.
I hold no endearment of the Coal industry, nostalgia wise !
Every day dozens and dozens of trash trains leave cities like NYC, all bound for landfills own South. Very few trash to steam electric generating stations are operating.
Burn it all up, pile the landfills chock full, polute the earth like there is no tomorrow.
Leach fields from the coal industry are seaping toxins such as selenium, barium, lead ... etc ...etc ... into surrounding communities aquafiers, poisonng the soil and drinking water forever.
How does your Gulf Coast shrimp taste now, marinated in Sweet Louisiana Crude BP Oil ?
The coal industry, oil industry, the PRR, and all railroads, have always been against Unions, and strikes and riots occured frequently in the 1800's-1900's. They raped and pilaged the earth, exploiting an killing and the common workers, with total disregaurd for their safety and well being. If a coal miner, or 9 y/o Breaker Boy was killed in the mines, the company carried them in a sheet, and cold heartedly ploped the body down on the families front porch, and left them there for the family to tag an bag the remains.
It is a wonder why anyone holds so much endearment for railroads ... other than the vast amount of freight that they can convey efficiently.
Long remember the massacre at Manassas, the massacre at Reading, and the massacre at RR riots at Pittsburgh, where US troops open fired on men, women, and children with 40 caliber ball shot ! All directed by the RR's, and Coal companies !
Long remember the shoddy earthen South Fork Rod & Gun Club Dam, built only for the rich & famous (Mellon, Carniegie, Ford, Oil, Coal and Gas barons) where the inferiorly constructed dam collapsed killing 2209 people that died on May 31, 1889, downstream in the Great Johnstown Flood.
Why would the general public, railfans, or any model railroader care if all the coal traffic was totally eliminated...if we had an alternative power source. The Coal business is as dirty as Oil business is, fithty rich, polution galore, deliberately holding back on future development of alternative fuel sources, all for their own immediate short term greed.
I hold no endearment of the Coal industry, nostalgia wise !
Every day dozens and dozens of trash trains leave cities like NYC, all bound for landfills own South. Very few trash to steam electric generating stations are operating.
Burn it all up, pile the landfills chock full, polute the earth like there is no tomorrow.
Leach fields from the coal industry are seaping toxins such as selenium, barium, lead ... etc ...etc ... into surrounding communities aquafiers, poisonng the soil and drinking water forever.
How does your Gulf Coast shrimp taste now, marinated in Sweet Louisiana Crude BP Oil ?
The coal industry, oil industry, the PRR, and all railroads, have always been against Unions, and strikes and riots occured frequently in the 1800's-1900's. They raped and pilaged the earth, exploiting an killing and the common workers, with total disregaurd for their safety and well being. If a coal miner, or 9 y/o Breaker Boy was killed in the mines, the company carried them in a sheet, and cold heartedly ploped the body down on the families front porch, and left them there for the family to tag an bag the remains.
It is a wonder why anyone holds so much endearment for railroads ... other than the vast amount of freight that they can convey efficiently.
Long remember the massacre at Manassas, the massacre at Reading, and the massacre at RR riots at Pittsburgh, where US troops open fired on men, women, and children with 40 caliber ball shot ! All directed by the RR's, and Coal companies !
Long remember the shoddy earthen South Fork Rod & Gun Club Dam, built only for the rich & famous (Mellon, Carniegie, Ford, Oil, Coal and Gas barons) where the inferiorly constructed dam collapsed killing 2209 people that died on May 31, 1889, downstream in the Great Johnstown Flood.
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Energy production is never pretty, someone will always find something to bitch about. Coal and oil pollute, hydroelectric destroys ecosystems and entire towns, wind power kills birds ( I really cant believe the ecofreaks bash what is probably the cleanest solution because of that) and the NIMBYs think they are ugly, solar is extremely expensive to create and still requires chemical to be extracted and refined to create the panels.
Youve already seen what's happened when the coal mines shut down in the appalachia, coal can be made to burn cleanly and it would be very unwise to stop using it especially due to that almost none of it has to be imported.
That and of course without coal I wouldn't get my daily dose of BNSF GEVO junk delivering ton after ton of coal to Plant Scherer in Julliette, GA. I think most railfans would definitely would care, no coal = many fewer trains, and alot of track abandoned. Id like to go visit PRB while coal traffic is in full swing.
Youve already seen what's happened when the coal mines shut down in the appalachia, coal can be made to burn cleanly and it would be very unwise to stop using it especially due to that almost none of it has to be imported.
That and of course without coal I wouldn't get my daily dose of BNSF GEVO junk delivering ton after ton of coal to Plant Scherer in Julliette, GA. I think most railfans would definitely would care, no coal = many fewer trains, and alot of track abandoned. Id like to go visit PRB while coal traffic is in full swing.
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jadebullet
might be back?
Yeah, clean coal, such as Anthracite, is one of the most viable solutions that we have. Hell, that is one of the things that I love about Schuylkill County. Between the wind generators, and the Anthracite Culm burning Co-Gen plants that we have all over the place, we are quite green. Now if only the rest of the country would pull their heads out of their arses and realize that 85% of the Anthracite is still in the ground, and that it burns hot, and clean as it is almost pure carbon, so it is the best fuel source that we have right now.
Heck, if you powderize the culm(waste coal) you can burn it in a gas, or oil power plant.
Heck, if you powderize the culm(waste coal) you can burn it in a gas, or oil power plant.
Yeah, people suck!
As for BP, those Brits are the worst.
I thought that the oil well was operated by BP America, contracted to a American company, using American workers under American law. Even if BP failed to maintain the well properly, most of the work was still done under american companys. And anyway B.P isn't even a British company anymore, B doesn't even stand for British anymore, it's just a global company based in the UK. So don't really think us Brits are to blame, B.P is however... BTW I'm not playing country name blame at all, just saying why I don't think we, or any country are to blame, it's the companys fault.
Anyway back on topic *edit, misread tounge in cheek comment, problem with a long day, can't tell between sarcasm and truth by the end.
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perry_weekley
New member
Coal, the only good thing it powered was Steam Locomotives, and our economy. I'm pretty sure if you close down the coal power plants you shut down America. West Virginia is one of the many southern states that thrive on Coal. So you want coal gone? Well then the already "poverty" level of West Virginia just went lower. Close the plants? Now most of West Virginia is in the plain broke section. The railroads would still be here but they would be empty as the only thing moving on the lines in West Virginia would be some lumber. The only other thing making profit here would be the Bars, :hehe: , and we wouldn't want that.
Sorry to the other states that I know also survive on coal,plants, and alcohol. I just used my home state since I feel I know it better than the others. :wave:
Sorry to the other states that I know also survive on coal,plants, and alcohol. I just used my home state since I feel I know it better than the others. :wave:
Finally a chance to "weigh-in"....
To be fair & balanced, it must be noted that stiff environmental legislation caused Big Oil to seek drilling in depths we do not have technology to handle, as in the Gulf of Mexico spill.
Any on-site camera(there are twelve), shows perfectly well that the broken piece need merely be unbolted at the flange, replaced...that simple.
However the depth of 1.5km requires all work to be done by bots...I guess we can't handle that at this time.
Nashville, TN had a demonstration last weekend to protest off-shore drilling....it's a crying shame no one was there to support the wishes of the on-shore workers that are now unemployed, dissed & mad because they know what the risks are, they have done off-shore work all their lives & see no problem with taking home a paycheck!
The facts are that everyone that drives a single-person trip, every wasted drop of petroleum products is a contributor to the issues happening Globally, not just the Gulf of Mexico!
Sure, a choice was made to cut overhead expenses in the Deepwater Horizon incident, however what's done is done.
Even the seafood industry in the Gulf wants to see off-shore drilling because they know friends & relatives that work the industry & want to see everyone working again.
Neither coal nor petrol industry is going anywhere until the demand is satisfied for what they give...legislation only complicates the matter & in the US-America, if The People demand it, there it will be...
The hokey unscientific fascism that was called "global-warming" did good-for about ten-minutes...we are more aware of the need to conserve, recycle & seek reusable assets, but just three hot days of summer, have jacked-back being stupid about it so into last-year.
To be fair & balanced, it must be noted that stiff environmental legislation caused Big Oil to seek drilling in depths we do not have technology to handle, as in the Gulf of Mexico spill.Any on-site camera(there are twelve), shows perfectly well that the broken piece need merely be unbolted at the flange, replaced...that simple.
However the depth of 1.5km requires all work to be done by bots...I guess we can't handle that at this time.
Nashville, TN had a demonstration last weekend to protest off-shore drilling....it's a crying shame no one was there to support the wishes of the on-shore workers that are now unemployed, dissed & mad because they know what the risks are, they have done off-shore work all their lives & see no problem with taking home a paycheck!
The facts are that everyone that drives a single-person trip, every wasted drop of petroleum products is a contributor to the issues happening Globally, not just the Gulf of Mexico!
Sure, a choice was made to cut overhead expenses in the Deepwater Horizon incident, however what's done is done.
Even the seafood industry in the Gulf wants to see off-shore drilling because they know friends & relatives that work the industry & want to see everyone working again.
Neither coal nor petrol industry is going anywhere until the demand is satisfied for what they give...legislation only complicates the matter & in the US-America, if The People demand it, there it will be...
The hokey unscientific fascism that was called "global-warming" did good-for about ten-minutes...we are more aware of the need to conserve, recycle & seek reusable assets, but just three hot days of summer, have jacked-back being stupid about it so into last-year.
...it's a crying shame no one was there to support the wishes of the on-shore workers that are now unemployed, dissed & mad because they know what the risks are, they have done off-shore work all their lives & see no problem with taking home a paycheck!
The facts are that everyone that drives a single-person trip, every wasted drop of petroleum products is a contributor to the issues happening Globally, not just the Gulf of Mexico!
Sure, a choice was made to cut overhead expenses in the Deepwater Horizon incident, however what's done is done.
Even the seafood industry in the Gulf wants to see off-shore drilling because they know friends & relatives that work the industry & want to see everyone working again.
Neither coal nor petrol industry is going anywhere until the demand is satisfied for what they give...legislation only complicates the matter & in the US-America, if The People demand it, there it will be...
We can use these fuels if they are mined in a clean manner. The problem is the companies are out for gold. Period. They will use any means possible to maximize the highest profit at the expense of everyone else including the workers.
So I don't blame the workers. They are only doing the jiobs. I blame the owners and management who don't care about anyone else. This is why there are regulations. Recently 22 coalmine workers died because the mine owner didn't have safety equipment installed; cost too much money. The TransOcean oil rig blew up because the company didn't want to spend a few extra bucks on a shutoff valve, and replace batteries on another one. It's these reasons why we're in the mess we're in now.
The lumber industry isn't much different. Instead of using good forestry techniques, they use the cheap, quick and easy clear cutting. In the end we end up with washed out slopes, poisoned rivers, and mountain run-off. The coal industry now uses mountain-top removal where whole hills and mountains are flattened to the ground so they can remove the coal. Cheap and easy for them at the expense of everyone else around them. The valleys and the people below are dead.
In the old days the textile mills and tanneries in New England poisoned the rivers and land. There were no regulations about dumping lead, arsenic, cadmium, and mercury into the rivers, canals and in the ground. Today we're left with areas where people are dying from leukemia and lung cancer because they are exposed to their mess. Why because no one cared about anything but explioting the land, and the workers.
There's an interesting article about the fire at the Pemberton Mills in Lawrence, MA. Regarding the workers, many of them women and children who perished in this fire. This is typical of the mills and people that worked there.
http://www3.gendisasters.com/massac...a-pemberton-mills-disaster,-jan-1860?page=0,0
It took strikes by workers and regulations to force big business into thinking for everyone not just themselves and their stockholders.
John
Stewardship...
...is the word of the day...
Bad companies produce strong unions(brotherhoods), good companies don't have to worry about unions...and then there were family-owned businesses.
I'm becoming acutely aware of mountaintop mining. I use Google Earth extensively to map the Appalachian coal concerns, there is an add-on that reviews the practice, by the way someone has made a walking dragline asset in Sketchup to add to the scenery, sitting on top of the once-mountain...
Look at it this way....
The Appalachian Mountains are becoming the new "get-away place," touting a refined culture of being "isolated" from the big-city life...whatever...
Multi-million dollar neighborhoods are sprouting up all over the place, that's nice but if there is an emergency what would you do? The roads are horrible switchbacks, some out-lying homesteads are up narrow single-lane gravel roads, access is difficult, and then there comes winter...how would an emergency vehicle navigate to the scene? Even though the roads are eventually paved & lined, the twisting winding up & downhill event takes a long time...
The environmentalists don't tell you that the mining companies are under Federal edict to return the land to a decent, usable habitat for native flora & fauna, constructing roads that make sense, protecting waterways.
Then, the inevitable housing developments & necessary infrastructure can provide a better environment for living than could the rustic, original & most-times dangerous terrain that was....development of this land is going to happen, like it or not.
Walt Disney Enterprises, Inc, obtained thousands of pages of legislation to develop the Reedy Creek Water management district. That's the legal side of Walt Disney World in Central Florida.
This is right now happening in Florida's Bone Valley Phosphate district, the Powder River Basin Coal industry, wherever resources are taken today in the United States of America.
...is the word of the day...Bad companies produce strong unions(brotherhoods), good companies don't have to worry about unions...and then there were family-owned businesses.
I'm becoming acutely aware of mountaintop mining. I use Google Earth extensively to map the Appalachian coal concerns, there is an add-on that reviews the practice, by the way someone has made a walking dragline asset in Sketchup to add to the scenery, sitting on top of the once-mountain...
Look at it this way....
The Appalachian Mountains are becoming the new "get-away place," touting a refined culture of being "isolated" from the big-city life...whatever...
Multi-million dollar neighborhoods are sprouting up all over the place, that's nice but if there is an emergency what would you do? The roads are horrible switchbacks, some out-lying homesteads are up narrow single-lane gravel roads, access is difficult, and then there comes winter...how would an emergency vehicle navigate to the scene? Even though the roads are eventually paved & lined, the twisting winding up & downhill event takes a long time...
The environmentalists don't tell you that the mining companies are under Federal edict to return the land to a decent, usable habitat for native flora & fauna, constructing roads that make sense, protecting waterways.
Then, the inevitable housing developments & necessary infrastructure can provide a better environment for living than could the rustic, original & most-times dangerous terrain that was....development of this land is going to happen, like it or not.
Walt Disney Enterprises, Inc, obtained thousands of pages of legislation to develop the Reedy Creek Water management district. That's the legal side of Walt Disney World in Central Florida.
This is right now happening in Florida's Bone Valley Phosphate district, the Powder River Basin Coal industry, wherever resources are taken today in the United States of America.
Hi class143 and my other British fellow Trainzers.
Of coarse my comment about people in general and Britts in particular was tounge in cheek, poking fun at those that believe we would all be allot better off on this planet if there were no people, particularly Britts. I, personally, am shocked by our current president's thinly veiled hatred for England. I heard today a posible explanation for it. It seems a grandfather of his was mistreated by British forces in Kenya. It may explain our president's attitude and actions but is certainly no excuse.
As for BP, I am holding off judgement. Unlike our president, I see no point in playing the blame game at this time. First lets fix it.
Of coarse my comment about people in general and Britts in particular was tounge in cheek, poking fun at those that believe we would all be allot better off on this planet if there were no people, particularly Britts. I, personally, am shocked by our current president's thinly veiled hatred for England. I heard today a posible explanation for it. It seems a grandfather of his was mistreated by British forces in Kenya. It may explain our president's attitude and actions but is certainly no excuse.
As for BP, I am holding off judgement. Unlike our president, I see no point in playing the blame game at this time. First lets fix it.
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Bad companies produce strong unions(brotherhoods), good companies don't have to worry about unions...and then there were family-owned businesses.
I'm becoming acutely aware of mountaintop mining. I use Google Earth extensively to map the Appalachian coal concerns, there is an add-on that reviews the practice, by the way someone has made a walking dragline asset in Sketchup to add to the scenery, sitting on top of the once-mountain...
Look at it this way....
The Appalachian Mountains are becoming the new "get-away place," touting a refined culture of being "isolated" from the big-city life...whatever...
Multi-million dollar neighborhoods are sprouting up all over the place, that's nice but if there is an emergency what would you do? The roads are horrible switchbacks, some out-lying homesteads are up narrow single-lane gravel roads, access is difficult, and then there comes winter...how would an emergency vehicle navigate to the scene? Even though the roads are eventually paved & lined, the twisting winding up & downhill event takes a long time...
The environmentalists don't tell you that the mining companies are under Federal edict to return the land to a decent, usable habitat for native flora & fauna, constructing roads that make sense, protecting waterways.
Then, the inevitable housing developments & necessary infrastructure can provide a better environment for living than could the rustic, original & most-times dangerous terrain that was....development of this land is going to happen, like it or not.
Walt Disney Enterprises, Inc, obtained thousands of pages of legislation to develop the Reedy Creek Water management district. That's the legal side of Walt Disney World in Central Florida.
This is right now happening in Florida's Bone Valley Phosphate district, the Powder River Basin Coal industry, wherever resources are taken today in the United States of America.
Up my way, employable industries have given away to condos for the rich. What used to be a lot of high tech companies, is now expensive office parks and fancy housing. The NIMBYs don't like trains or workers. Sadly now my commute is 450 miles a week instead 30 miles all because the Merrimack Valley has lost pretty much all the industry due in part of off-shoring and NIMBYs driving the rest away.
Corporations such as Disney and the big mines have also influenced the congress in to slowly removing the controls that they're supposed to abide by. Again up my way, the laws have been changed so they can build in the wetlands and saltmarshes eventhough there is plenty of land nearby. The seaside is an expensive getaway now only for the influential rich, and in the process the protective sandbars and saltmarshes are being developed on. I don't feel sorry when a storm comes along and washes away their backyards and houses.
I'm well aware of the roads up in the Appalacian Mountains and Ozarks. These are not much different than what we have in the Berkshires and White Mountains. I agree there's now way this area can support as I saw this first hand. For the past two years I've been out storm chasing in the south and midwest. In the process, we journeyed through the Ozarks, Ouachita, and Kiamichi, and into the Appalacians. Last year we ended up in Ashland, AL which is just outside of Huntsville. The roads are tortuous and narrow, which makes driving quickly too dangers in many places, and if the throngs of tourists don't know the area, they'll get trapped easily.
The thing is we need to balance our needs along with the environment. It's not about global warming, or whatever the current politically correct term they're using today. It's about balance. We should take what we need while not destroying everything else at the expense of profits for a few who see everything as something to exploit.
John