Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06

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And as for .................
Or we could all end up without any sort of Trainz, to run.

IKB.
I have my 2004 discs, I have all the content I have downloaded (and it's backed up), plus there are countless independent sites to download stuff from.
So if the DLS & Auran disappeared off the face of the planet tomorrow, I would still have "Trainz to run", with a million variations of self created routes. I can always reskin stuff if I want even more variation.

Craig, apologies not required, you have valid points, if not stated, they cannot be considered.
I didn't move from UTC to 2004 until late, my version came from 'Just Trains' it's the 'Passenger Edition' & I only had to apply 1 build update.
 
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Hello IKB,

With respect, I think you have missed the point, or maybe not fully read or understood the purpose of posting this thread.

I'll take each of your sentences, with apologies to those who have aready read what I am about to restate:


Instead of wasting time and effort in trying to get old and dated versions of Trainz supported.
IKB.

Product support is not the issue. TRS2004 support doesn't need paid staff. All of mine has come from the community, not Auran.


Put some positive effort in to supporting Auran and buy the new versions.

Buying a new version, and an FCT are both accepted proposals in my first post.



Or we could all end up without any sort of Trainz, to run.

IKB.

This thread is intended to help prevent that very thing from happening.

By keeping users of all versions of Trainz happy that could so easily be achieved with all versions of Trainz running for years to come. I love this game with a passion, and am the last person who would wish to see its demise. However, it will be no use whinging after September when it will be too late. If there is the remotest opportunity that a shift in policy can be made which could keep everyone happy, then I'll ask for it, and ask now.



With regard to your earlier post:

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

IKB.

No comment, other than perhaps to say that maybe a few more people need a wake up call to prevent them from sleepwalking into the new era. One with a DLS where, under current stated policy, TRS04/06/09 users will be unable to download new assets, and just pay just for old assets. There is also the very real possibility, from what I've read in other threads, that some asset creators no longer have the motivation to produce new work. That can only reduce the value of the DLS for all of us.

No-one wants that.

Casper
 
Some of the reasons for people not buying newer versions of Trainz are:

1. People may not have the money to buy a newer version of Trainz, and may not be able to upgrade their computer.

2. If your like me and have downloaded more content on TRS2004/2006 then the default content they came with, then you may not want to lose all that and your routes, when you use a new simulator.

3. People may not be able to use the new simulators because the content is very high in "polys".
 
It is still a pointless waste of time.

You don't think someone at Auran woke up one morning and thought "i know what we will do"..................

A lot of thought has probably gone into the decision, before it was announced.

Plus with respect, i see the people making the biggest fuss are the "johnny come lately's" to the forum or Trainz or both.

If i can afford to run a pc that manages TS2010 quite well and purchase each version of Trainz to support Auran.

On my meagre income, then i am sure that the same follows for most of the "gripers"

IKB.
 
Money is not a problem for me. I just plain don't care for 09 and the new content coming out. 04/06 fills the bill nicely for me, a personal choice.

It has been said in this thread 09/10 still rely on older content. Does it make sense at this point to make a complete break. If Auran included enough new content in the release to replace it I would say yes. They are still relying on older content though. I'm not talking about the whole DLS, just enough to produce a truly new version not rehashed over several releases or taken from the DLS.

04/06 content is still viable. Allowing uploads and downloads to the DLS by older versions keeps new content flowing and improved error checking keeps the new customers happy. Having separate standards and lax checking caused all this to begin with. This should have been done 117,000 items ago. Why they released a version knowing full well there would be compatibility issues with nothing to replace it with still boggles the mind.

A lot of talk about kicking in to keep the company afloat, they aren't a charity. You are right they aren't. More importantly, neither am I. When they release something I feel is worth it to me to upgrade to, I will. Kicking in for a new version I'll never use every year makes very little sense to me. They are a business, I am a consumer, our relationship stops there.

Do I think this all is a bad mistake, yes. With no creators on staff Auran is very dependent on their customers to make it for them. Trying to force everyone into the new versions will just perpetuate this folly they created content wise. In the end it's about new customers having error problems and milking old Jet out one more time. That is their problem and responsibility to fix, not the end users who have freely given them everything for their profit. I didn't purchase this program from anyone from the DLS. Neverwhatever cashed my check.

You can add me to the list, but I don't think it will do any good. They are looking at the bottom line and selling 09/10 is the priority. This is just a way to try and make it happen. WAY to much out there available to play this with a company.

Dave.......
 
To you it may seem a waste, but there are a lot of people out here who enjoy trainz but because they are on a pension or have been retrenched and unable to find work yet are unable to afford a new all singing all dancing PC to run the latest versions, but would gladly maintain an FCT to continue to download content if it was still available.
TRS04 and 06 users could still suport Auran by maintaining FCT's and creators could still upload for 04 & 06 provided the content was fault free.
For Auran I believe it would be a win win situation as it would keep the 04 and 06 users and creators with Auran and I am sure in time a good number of these people would if their circumstances changed update to a newer PC and Trainz version.
Don't dump on people just because they are in a less fortunate situation than you. As far as 09 & 10 running on older machines is concerned I find your statement untrue as I have tried both 09 &10 via a kind friend and they made UTC look 1st class.
Regards
Barrie

Note: - TRS09 & 10 have been removed from my machine as it was only for a test to see how they worked.

Darn I wonder how I managed to buy TS2010 on my pension. I could look for work again but I need a special keyboard that is no longer available. Apple brought the rights to it and stopped making it.

Must have been the wife cash flowing again.

Cheerio John
 
Most have missed the original poster's point. The focus was the purchase of FCT and feeling "dudded about the potential to download new content" after September and prior to FCT expiry.

At the end of the day, the FCT is about download efficiency... not version specific and/or new content. The user will still be able to download content efficiently as is the purpose of the FCT, and the manner in which it's promoted. There is nothing shady about it.

Mind you, the irony of "TRS2004" in the DLS URL probably hasn't escaped anyone... :eek:
 
I think Auran can go and learn how it can be done from this, "The Celestia Motherlode" and "Homeworld Complex". Please Google if you are curious.
 
My understanding is that if you have a FCT you will still be able to download into TRS2006, you just won't be able to host any of your own creations on the DLS.

I've just had to reformat my laptop following a rather nasty adware attack/HD crash so an ideal opportunity to see if a clean install on a refreshed system overcomes the performance problems I've reported previously with TS2010. If not, then it will be back to 006 for development.

Naturally I would like to see Auran retain full DLS support for TRS2004/2006 and you can +1 me to the campaign. However the friendly company we once knew seems to have sold itself to big business where hard headed execs take the decisions, so I wouldn't count on anything changing.
 
Facts

As I see this, a few facts :-
1. No content (as far as I know) will be removed from the DS. Older 2004/06 content is used in later versions within the bundled routes. This being the case, it will still be available for downloading.
1a. So users with all versions will still be able to download content for whichever version they possess.

2. No new Uploads will be accepted after the September date for versions other than 2010.
2a. This means that any new content created for older versions will have to be hosted on external sites, including my routes.

3. Auran thereafter will only support their latest version, which at the moment is 2010.
3a. Support for older versions will I assume still be available via the forum, where most of it is found now anyway.

4. In the eventual case not a lot will change on the DS apart from only 2010 content being Uploaded. All other content will still be listed. There are a few assets that have already been discontinued as I have discovered when releasing new sections of the WCL so I try at avoid using these now.
4a. The upshot is that you will all still be able to download exactly the same content you can now. What will change is there will be no new assets for any version other than 2010 or later.

Well surprise, surprise! Auran is a business, not a charity. They need to work to some kind of profit margin to survive otherwise they will also vanish into the ether as well as the older versions, and none of us want that, do we?

They have offered us, over the years, a great service. Okay, it fell flat on its face a few times and squirmed on the floor for a while, but they got it up and running again without giving up on us, even though there was a sea of moans and some quite impolite posts on this forum. I don’t know of any other gaming zone program that offers anything like the things this community gets, especially so in a railway sim, yet all a lot of the people on here do is complain (with exceptions). All those that have used these alternative sims soon came back to Trainz. Yes, it has faults, nothing in life is perfect, but we sort ourselves out, dust it down and in the vast majority of cases get the program running.

What can be suggested is a practical alternative that might appeal to the Auran top brass, one with money in it for their continuing support of an older version while not affecting the sales of their latest one. Pleading here will not make any difference to the decision that has been taken at boardroom level. As has been stated in previous posts, a great deal of thought has gone into this move before general notification. It has probably been a hard choice.

It has been mooted that Auran set up a separate site for the older versions. Fine, but who’s going to pay for it? There isn’t a web site fairy that gives them away for free. Has anybody on here set one up? If so, they will know the costs. But to do that would require a powerful server to support it and that again would increase costs. Revenue will have to come from those that want the support to continue for a defunct version(s).

So who is to pay? If you want it then you pay for it, simple. Maybe by buying an Access Ticket for older versions site? A figure for the costs to be worked out. That would be on top of and separate from a FCT. How many would grab this chance? Goodness knows. It seems people want something for nothing and that does not work in business.

And why has the decision been taken in the first place? Most likely the cause is that sales of 2010 are not as good as expected with folk sticking to older versions. Solution? Buy 2010, I did. I haven’t used it much because I still create in 2004, but I will one day. The important thing is that Auran got support and income. And by the way, I am retired and a pensioner.

Yes, 2004 is a stable version, but it took quite a few patches to get it there and quite a few years to do it. So it was not an immediate success, it progressed and improved, slowly. So why should 2010 be perfect right away? The truth is it won’t be, it will also need several patches to fix the problems found during end user use.
It is just a pity Auran used Speedtreez.... and got the naming conventions mixed up at the same time.

If you want Auran to listen, be practical, offer something in return, then they might just take time out to start a conversation with the community. If you don’t, then forget it.

Angela
 
Darn I wonder how I managed to buy TS2010 on my pension. I could look for work again but I need a special keyboard that is no longer available. Apple brought the rights to it and stopped making it.

Must have been the wife cash flowing again.

Cheerio John

Also, I think I imagined affording it on my disability benefits, darn.
 
Angela, you're *mostly* right, except that

1) Old version users will need a FCT to download from the DLS, I believe - the Auran document actually states that Download access may be removed once support terminates, so you could be correct that all versions will still be able to download without a FCT, we'll see.

and

2) TC1, TC2, TC3 & TS2009 will still be supported in september also. TC1 and TC2 will have their support end in september 2011, TC3 in 2012, and TS2009 in 2014.
 
Yes, 2004 is a stable version, but it took quite a few patches to get it there and quite a few years to do it. So it was not an immediate success, it progressed and improved, slowly. So why should 2010 be perfect right away? The truth is it won’t be, it will also need several patches to fix the problems found during end user use.

Angela[/quote]

So why don`t they wait to ditch the other versions till 2010 is stable and people have faith in the fact they will get a good product for their money

Also you will need quite a High End computer to run 2010 in native mode properly
 
I've become kind of neutral in this discussion as I agree with both sides. As for something that Angelah said..
It has been mooted that Auran set up a separate site for the older versions. Fine, but who’s going to pay for it? There isn’t a web site fairy that gives them away for free. Has anybody on here set one up? If so, they will know the costs. But to do that would require a powerful server to support it and that again would increase costs. Revenue will have to come from those that want the support to continue for a defunct version(s).

TPR does have a website set up and the costs aren't as much as you think. I've taken a pic of our monthly amount of storage and bandwidth to show you that you could have a seperate dls. The numbers shown in the pic are in gigs. For this amount of storage, you'd only need roughly 10-15 people to purchase an FCT. Of course you'd need more money if you needed to upgrade your amount of bandwidth or storage. But not as much as everyone seems to think.

tprserver.jpg


This pic shows our usage this year. Now we aren't anything like the DLS and don't claim to be.

tprstats.jpg
 
I don't think descending into a Monty Pythonesque type of "my hardship was worse than yours" is going to very productive. If someone claims they can't afford it, take it a face value. Everyone's financial circumstances are different and should not be disputed. :)

My hardship was worse than yours

I did it too un unemployment benefits and as a college student!

LOL, Martin very good. I can hear John Cleese saying...

John
 
Claims & counter-claims

It won't make the slightest difference claiming one thing or the other or how much band width a certain ISP allows. The fact is Auran are a business, full time, not doing it in their spare time, and to survive the whole project must pay for itself. That is basic business principles.
The DS and associated pages must be enormous, I cannot image how large the web site must be. This was a possible reason for the recent changes.

So my points are still valid. There are no 'free lunches' in business, you get what you pay for (more or less). If you want something extra then you will pay extra. For instance; I want a special 1:50 scale truck of Willi Betz, they are not available but it can be done, just costs more.

And before the rush to say you paid for a version of Trainz and it doesn't work, remember that Auran are still working on it. Could you produce a complex program like this and have it work first time? No, didn't think so.
And also 2010 worked on my PC without stutters. Installed first time and ran first time. If I can do it then so can others. If the program fails to run then look at your PCs, don't condemn the program.

If I can run 2010 on this new PC and it is not as fast as my last one, Auran must have twiddled the knobs somewhere in the background to get better frame rates. This PC cost me 170 quid at a local shop brand new! It's an HP, and not the sauce!
I am disabled and receive the same benefits as any other disabled person. So what happens when your own PC goes phut, as mine did? You go get a new one if you want to use a computer, can't do it without one.

In general Auran (or whatever they're called now) are a good company. Yes, they have faults, but they do listen and do try to fix problems with patches. There are software companies around that just let you fizz in your own juices when things go wrong.
Their main fault, if there is one, is with lack of communication with the masses which results in people not knowing what is going on and then a lot of myths and wild guesses begin to emerge.

Angela
 
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