Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06

mezzoprezzo said:

Peter,

Thanks for your updated figures.

I still cannot find anything like your total. I’ve had another trawl through the DLS this morning, doing an “All” search and still get the lower number.

Do you think that your figure includes all the files that support a given model, like the meshes and texture files etc?

What I’m trying to count is the total number of items; individual trees, buildings, rolling stock etc.
that the DLS has to offer, rather than all the files that are needed to build them in the game.

If I can get your six figure number of items as individual models, I’d be delighted to investigate further. Perhaps someone can tell me where I’m going wrong on my DLS searches.

This is what I got this morning, first for 2004 – then for 2010:

Casper

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I agree I am getting exacyly the same figures

Casper,

When you search like that on the DLS the list is truncated. You are not seeing all the assets.

Look in CMP instead - My 2009 CMP lists 135,143 items as of today. CMP3.2 for TS2010 lists 151,137 assets.

When I first got Trainz 2.5 years ago, there was just over 100,000 assets.

regards
Charles

BLACKWATCH said:

So am I to understand that ALL my TRS2004 downloads WILL work in 'Native Mode' with TS2010 ?

johnwhelan
Quote:
Let me know if any of my content set to TRS2004 won't run in TS2010 native mode. I've spent a fair amount of time correcting content. It's still labeled TRS2004 but it does run native mode.

If you have a two year old machine it probably is dual core. If you're running TRS2004 on a dual core machine just be aware that half of that expensive cpu you brought is just doing nothing.

@@@@@


You are a credit to the game for taking the trouble to upgrade your creations for TS2010, but sadly you are one of the few, not many creators have done this.
Yes my machine is running a core 2 duo cpu, TRS2004 may not use it all, but other programs I use do.
I cannot let you know if any of your content will not run 'Native Mode', as I have not bought TS2010, I will not buy it until I am sure it will run BETTER than TRS2004 & has a good amount of content that will run in 'Native', which includes most of the loco's I have in TRS2004.

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Difficult one that without knowing which locos you are after. Currently we are working on updating steam locos, we have completed about seven so far with custom engine specs, another steam engine spec has been completed and that will be correct for another three locos, there are four reskins of the same loco and emails have been sent to the reskinners to see if we can get the reskins brought up to the same specs, otherwise you'll need to clone then copy in the skins. There are another dozen or so in the queue. By the way I think all LMS_MANs locos now have TS2009 versions which run fine in TS2010.

Most scenery runs fine in native mode and other items are coming along. If you ignore the warnings the majority of rolling stock content is fine in native mode.

Cheerio John

Odd really as just taking a quick look through the locos last 20 uploads 18 I think were for 04/
I longs since stoped with o4 as o6 is better for me and win7 pushed me onto 2010.
everything works in 2010 but for the technically slow 04 stuff in compablity mode only.
I like what the creators do and with out those people I'd have long ago move on to other things, BUT if they would build for newer versions ho how much faster the game would be
I understand what people say about their old slow PC's but for me that is not an issue

Question are people still going be able to upload content in 2004

If 04 remains then asking people to pay for a fct because they have maybe not contributed to auran for 6 years would seam fair

Correcting errors in content to run in Native Mode is very easy, using the excellent PEVsoft utilities.

I can do it and i definitely, know next to nothing about how models are put together.

IKB.

stovepipe said:

Casper,

When you search like that on the DLS the list is truncated. You are not seeing all the assets.

Look in CMP instead - My 2009 CMP lists 135,143 items as of today. CMP3.2 for TS2010 lists 151,137 assets.

When I first got Trainz 2.5 years ago, there was just over 100,000 assets.

regards
Charles

Click to expand...

Thank you for the information Charles.

I'll need to investigate further.

As far as I know, CMP is not available for 04; my research tells me this started with 06. I have CM & TO only, and am not aware of any DLS search link from either.

I'd be interested to know why the returned results are truncated on DLS, and whether the extra items can be found there without CMP.

I'm also still not clear whether these extra "assets" are real models, or the necessary files which support their ability to appear in game.

Cheers
Casper

mezzoprezzo said:

I'd be interested to know why the returned results are truncated on DLS, and whether the extra items can be found there without CMP.

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Because the overhead on the servers for allowing untruncated searchs would cripple the DLS further than the problems it already has?

Are you seriously going to browse through 100,000 assets via the next/prev pages list? No, so there is no benefit to returning *all* results in such a broad search, the SQL return set would be huge, and bring the server to its knees each time someone did it, even 12,000 results is excessive.

As for whether you can find all the items via the web DLS? Almost certainly, you just need to use narrower focused searches that don't return more than 12,000 items at a time.

Thanks Nikki.

That's really helped me (and possibly others) to understand this. I thought that an "All" search would provide what it said on the prompt.

There is always still so much to learn here!

I generally search with narrow searches, as you suggest and only use "All" to find new items in date order. I honestly thought that the number quoted was the total.

I now know better. It's an important point which, for me, further clarifies the immense value of the DLS.

Casper

I did this once after a another member mentioned it but I can not quite remember the dates etc. If you do a search on a particular section, such as Locomotives, you will find it only goes back so many pages and to a certain date. Yet you and all of us will know that there are locomotives prior to this date.

I too have in the past tried to compare the figures from CMP (either versions) and could not get the same results.

Thanks to those at least offering some explanation as to why.

Craig

The fellow saying this is a 'premeditated plot to force all of us into buying more' or some such is a ridiculous statement.

Sounds more like you're thinking there's a great conspiracy? Not meaning to start an arguement, but this just sounds silly.

And TS2010 is certainly not 'bloated' like Vista. How can this explain the performance gains and such? Seems like cutting down on support for older assets will do well in unbloating the series, and the features TS2010 has are fantastic. 5m grid is a fantastic improvement, for example. From what I remember, even RailWorks and Rail Simulator have an 8m grid? I could be mistaken though.

If Auran drop support for older versions it simply means that they can concentrate their efforts into newer products. I don't see this as a crazy cash grab, either. Auran obviously want to move into the 21st century, which will certainly benefit our community with more people interested in a more modern sim...

mezzoprezzo said:

There is also the very real possibility, from what I've read in other threads, that some asset creators no longer have the motivation to produce new work. That can only reduce the value of the DLS for all of us.

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Possibility? It's already happening.


And I reiterate this for the 7.64 quadrillionth time:

I have TRS2006 from the Trainz Railways pack and it AND the Content Manager WORK JUST FINE

A_C is right, Why fix something that isn't broken? I have absolutely no interest in any future versions of Trainz that, as I've seen (And many others have blindly avoided like the plague just because it doesn't suit them or their interests,) Hardly work properly at all.

I plan to stay with 2006, because it functions for me perfectly.

IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT THIS, THAT'S JUST TOO BAD.

Casper, you definetly have my support thrown behind you! I am with the "2010ers", but in the end I think its rather "suicidal" for Auran to make a business transaction like this. I mean, 06 still has a fairly large user base doesn't it? Either that, or I've missed a lot! Anyways, I think there should be more flexibility, as some people aren't necessarily adverse to newer versions, but have other valid reasons like the inability for their PC to capacitate for a version such as 2010(It's relatively smooth, it can be a bit choppy at times, and this PC is just somewhat above average, it's not like those "gaming console" computers though, either). I think that there should be a balance in consideration for such a move like this; find flexibility in solutions to problems that Auran as a profiteering company have, and using the solutions to fix a problem that won't give the user/customer base a blow in the head. Its hard to stand in Auran's shoes, mostly because the user base isn't the average gamer, its the railfan. They're in it for the trains, not necessarily the quality. I don't know, I'm not a master in economics, business, or anything like that. Its purely my viewpoint from what I've heard around here. Otherwise, In my opinion, its a BAD move on Auran's part.

Hi Isaac.

I take your well made point on games.

I remember being a fan of Ubisoft Splinter Cell. Solved in 4 days and couldn’t wait for the next episode. They did very well out of me.

Trainz is unique and is truly creative. It just a blank canvas on which to build – a bit like a spreadsheet really. Once you have one, all the new add-ons in the latest versions are either gimmicky or too complex and get in the way of the job in hand.

I’m still on 04, still learning and can get reasonable results with it. And I’m constantly amazed at what it can do. I don’t have any problem with the stability of the software, all of my problems have been solved by this excellent community and the ability to download new items had been one of the greatest creative inspirations.

I have looked at upgrading, but really don’t see the need. There’s little point in going to 06 or even an 09 upgrade with its future demise clearly in view. That leaves 10!

I cannot believe that all of the problems with the latest edition, highlighted by others, aren’t real. I’ve read peoples comments on the new product, rejected the views of the extremists at either end of the spectrum and have make up my own mind.

I want a canvas that won’t keep falling off the easel.

I’d still buy 10, and a DLT, if it meant I could continue to use 04. But I’ve said that already. Auran can still have my money. The figures are in post #61

Casper

With all the comments about how few are building for TS2010, have a look at the TS2010 screenshots thread. Plenty of new and exciting stuff over there. Stuff that looks way better than anything made back in the day for TRS2004. Not to pick on only one contributer but the things that Iceman2117 does in TS2010 is just amazing. :mop:

johnwhelan said:

Difficult one that without knowing which locos you are after. Currently we are working on updating steam locos, we have completed about seven so far with custom engine specs, another steam engine spec has been completed and that will be correct for another three locos, there are four reskins of the same loco

Most scenery runs fine in native mode and other items are coming along. If you ignore the warnings the majority of rolling stock content is fine in native mode.

Cheerio John

Click to expand...

Obviously you are working at a pace, & you can only do so much, but up to date, I have a total of 113 individual steam loco's, plus 254 individual British diesel loco's, 44 DMU's and 33 electrics, yes, approximately 30% are reskins, but that still means 296 individual motive units, so Native TS2010 motive power is still VERY VERY sadly lacking.

Some views from the bunker....

So, what have we discovered then from this thread about why TRS04 is so much better than every other version of Trainz and therefore deserves continued support from Auran after September? Let's hear from the experts:

mezzoprezzo said:

I’m still on 04, still learning and can get reasonable results with it. And I’m constantly amazed at what it can do. [...] I have looked at upgrading, but really don’t see the need. [...] I cannot believe that all of the problems with the latest edition, highlighted by others, aren’t real. [...] I’d still buy 10, and a DLT, if it meant I could continue to use 04...

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Sampug394 said:

...I have absolutely no interest in any future versions of Trainz that, as I've seen (And many others have blindly avoided like the plague just because it doesn't suit them or their interests,) Hardly work properly at all.

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BLACKWATCH said:

Yes my machine is running a core 2 duo cpu, TRS2004 may not use it all, but other programs I use do.[...] I cannot let you know if any of your content will not run 'Native Mode', as I have not bought TS2010, I will not buy it until I am sure it will run BETTER than TRS2004 ...

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cascaderailroad said:

... but from what I have seen on TS10 it is still lame, and has no real improvements, and it was a hastily drawn up program, released far before it was ready and tested. And asside from, the totally barfy Speedtrees, shadows, detailed track, and 5m cutting grid...TS10 is another carpy Vista (OS)...bloated.

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sparky15 said:

... I just plain don't care for 09 and the new content coming out. 04/06 fills the bill nicely for me...

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Now, let me check that I've understood the case that's been made here, which seems to run as follows (if I may paraphrase):

"We're sticking to a 6 year old game because we've heard that every other version is crap and we advise everyone else to do the same and besides we're sure our PC's won't be able to play it although we don't know that as we haven't bothered buying it and anyway those new trees are horrible aren't they, not that we've actually seen them, but we've heard about it on these forums and isn't CMP really unstable or something, or was that TRS06? but anyway isn't TS10 really terrible? Long live TRS04 and if we can't upload our stuff after September we're going to go away and stamp our feet really hard and maybe scream a bit!"

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I've been on these forums nearly five years and in that whole time every version of Trainz since 04 has been slagged off as not being up to the impeccable standards of the masterpiece that is Trainz 2.4 (despite it requiring four service packs.) I wonder how many sales Auran has lost as a consequence of the (often ignorant) carping of the TRS04 brigade on these forums?

Whereas TRS06 was undoubtedly flawed and the TC series questionable as a business model, there is no doubt that TS10 is absolutely the best version of Trainz we have ever had and this is obvious to anyone who has used it (assuming they're not wearing blinkers and actually know how to use a PC). Even I, who has been critical elsewhere about the 'pop up' issue in TS10 can still see that it's miles better than any other version of the game and, with a little further improvement, ought to be the version that we are all working with and creating for.

But none of this is good enough for the 2004 Jeremiahs who are happy to damn a version they've never seen or used. With views like those above, it's amazing that Trainz still exists at all, let alone has made it through to the most sophisticated and advanced version ever seen in 2010. Of course, if Auran go bust, there will be no DLS for anyone, owners of TRS04 or otherwise, which perhaps would bring a fitting end to this wholly misguided thread!

Paul (bunker buster)

From some of the comments from the complacent little lambs here (you know who you are) that are ready, willing, and overjoyed to see 04/06 get led to the slaughterhouse, and have all it's great content lost forever...I truely hope you will be happy with 10, and it's lack of great old assets.

I am done with the conversation, dealing with boobs & 14y/o noobs. You want 10 so bad...watch out what you wish for...because you might get more than you had bargained for. And end up with 10 unsupported also, in the near future. TRS2006 is only 4 years old, and it is getting culled...fools rush in....

Of course the Myan calander predicts that the end of the world is comming on Dec 17 2012...so we don't have all that much time to run Trainz anyway.

Paul,
Please don't cut and paste to alter the context of what people are trying to say. I find it offensive.
There's the possibility of a win-win for all here. Don't wreck it.
Casper

mezzoprezzo said:

Paul,
Please don't cut and paste to alter the context of what people are trying to say. I find it offensive.
There's the possibility of a win-win for all here. Don't wreck it.
Casper

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G'Day Casper, You are very right here, Auran could turn this around and make it into a profitable thing if they had half a mind to. there are many and varied reasons for people to stay with older versions (for now) don't bag them out.
A lot have had first hand experience with trs10, some have bought it tried it then just put it on the shelf, others have seen it on others machines and not liked it (again many reasons) BUT many who will stay (for now) with the older versions will in the future if the stay with auran, get a newer version, BUT if they are pushed away from Auran then most will never come back and purchase anything from Auran.
At the end of the day it is Auran's decision but I think they could turn this around for the better and make a profit too.
Regards
Barrie

So, I tried 09 and didn't like it. Now I'm some ignorant fool carping. Amazing.

Some pretty self importance you have.

Dave.....