I fancy a new computer - thoughts?

For boot drive I would recommend an 160gb Intel X25-M £350 (probably the same in Canadian $), Goes like **** of a Teflon shovel, you will just laugh at how fast Trainz loads of one of those jobbies. If you do go down the SSD route make sure you stick Win7 on and the SSD supports TRIM. The intel X25-M and E's support TRIM. Avoid any SSD's that have a Jmicron controller. It may also be worth doing a bit of research on the other manufactures as some use the Intel controller which is the dogs danglies, I believe Kingston have a SSD based on the intel controller.
 
LieLestoSbrat said:
For boot drive I would recommend an 160gb Intel X25-M £350 (probably the same in Canadian $), Goes like **** of a Teflon shovel, you will just laugh at how fast Trainz loads of one of those jobbies. If you do go down the SSD route make sure you stick Win7 on and the SSD supports TRIM. The intel X25-M and E's support TRIM. Avoid any SSD's that have a Jmicron controller. It may also be worth doing a bit of research on the other manufactures as some use the Intel controller which is the dogs danglies, I believe Kingston have a SSD based on the intel controller.
Click to expand...

$520 plus sales tax so slightly more expensive than the UK price. ASUS M4A89GTD PRO AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard looks interesting with the SSD that's a possibility.

Thanks

Cheerio John
 
And you could always get a 5870 Vapor-X from Sapphire or an MSI Lightning and overclock them to get better performance (if you don't settle for Fermi that is).

Just my 2 cents.
 
saintjimmy said:
And you could always get a 5870 Vapor-X from Sapphire or an MSI Lightning and overclock them to get better performance (if you don't settle for Fermi that is).

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

But have a look here.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=53960

I suspect there could be an element that Trainz is optimised for nVidia cards.

I'd be happier running ATI cards on an AMD rig. I need a sata drive to install XP on before upgrading to Win 7 64 bit but quite like the idea of a 160 gig SSD. I'm still debating Intel / AMD, the AMD is close to end of life but I suspect there will be a six core Intel out this summer on the same socket.

Let's see what March 26th and Fermi brings. If its a dud then AMD / ATI rig weighs a bit more on the balance tray.

Thanks

Cheerio John
 
Please correct me if I am wrong:

A desktop is extremely easy to install an upgraded video card designed for Trainz. And that is the biggest problem solver, purchasing the high quality video card.

Question: Are most laptops (Ex: HP Windows 7) with (4Gb ram and a 320Mb Hard Drive)...It is my understanding that most in the $600+ price range should be able to run Trainz very well with no video card upgrade nor any PC modification ?

My GF Toshiba Vista 1Gb Laptop, and my HP Vista Desktop 3GB, 500Mb Hard Drive, Nividia 8500 Video card, seem to run TRS2006 very well.
 
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johnwhelan said:
But have a look here.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=53960

I suspect there could be an element that Trainz is optimised for nVidia cards.

I'd be happier running ATI cards on an AMD rig. I need a sata drive to install XP on before upgrading to Win 7 64 bit but quite like the idea of a 160 gig SSD. I'm still debating Intel / AMD, the AMD is close to end of life but I suspect there will be a six core Intel out this summer on the same socket.

Let's see what March 26th and Fermi brings. If its a dud then AMD / ATI rig weighs a bit more on the balance tray.

Thanks

Cheerio John
Click to expand...

You probably correct on the 6 core Intel chip this summer, their was a review of it on Toms Hardware they mentioned a price tag though of approx $1000 USD. Drops into the LGA 1366 socket and all you need to do with an existing board is update the BIOS. One thing that Toms's has noted that the best AMD desktop chip is just as good as the current i7 975 when it comes to games, where the i7's really take off is in the productivity realms, which as a content creator maybe of use.
 
LieLestoSbrat said:
You probably correct on the 6 core Intel chip this summer, their was a review of it on Toms Hardware they mentioned a price tag though of approx $1000 USD. Drops into the LGA 1366 socket and all you need to do with an existing board is update the BIOS. One thing that Toms's has noted that the best AMD desktop chip is just as good as the current i7 975 when it comes to games, where the i7's really take off is in the productivity realms, which as a content creator maybe of use.
Click to expand...

If it takes three months or three months less an hour to create something it doesn't matter very much so that side isn't that important.

Thanks for the thought.

Cheerio John
 
cascaderailroad said:
Please correct me if I am wrong:

A desktop is extremely easy to install an upgraded video card designed for Trainz. And that is the biggest problem solver, purchasing the high quality video card.

Question: Are most laptops (Ex: HP Windows 7) with (4Gb ram and a 320Mb Hard Drive)...It is my understanding that most in the $600+ price range should be able to run Trainz very well with no video card upgrade nor any PC modification ?

My GF Toshiba Vista 1Gb Laptop, and my HP Vista Desktop 3GB, 500Mb Hard Drive, Nividia 8500 Video card, seem to run TRS2006 very well.
Click to expand...

I'm unable to use a conventional keyboard so lap tops don't work. Yes the video card can be switched but the issue is finding a system that will take ecc memory and I might as well go for a reasonably fast cpu whilst I'm at it but not a $1,000 one.

Very few HP desktops offer ecc memory and the price is considerably more on their workstation range with ecc memory options. Dell are the same. It would cost in the $4,000 plus range for something and the video cards available are lower performance and more expensive. Hence roll my own.

Thanks

Cheerio John
 
I can not see a $4000 PC being a necessity for Trainz. A $400-$600 off the shelf model will run the game. You don't need a $2500 gaming PC to run Trainz.
 
LieLestoSbrat said:
One thing that Toms's has noted that the best AMD desktop chip is just as good as the current i7 975 when it comes to games, where the i7's really take off is in the productivity realms, which as a content creator maybe of use.
Click to expand...


The “best AMD desktop” CPU (the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition) just barely keeps up with Intel's Core 2 Q9650, let alone an i7.


http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=49&p2=102&c=1


I'm currently running TRS2010 on two machines, one with a Q9650 and one with an i7 975 and without a doubt with CPU dependent games like TRS2010 the Core 2 get's clobbered by the i7.


By the way I would seriously take a look at more reputable hardware sites then TomsHardware, that site is well know for B.S.
 
cascaderailroad said:
I can not see a $4000 PC being a necessity for Trainz. A $400-$600 off the shelf model will run the game. You don't need a $2500 gaming PC to run Trainz.
Click to expand...

$400-$600 off the shelf computer do not have ecc memory and that is a requirement that must be met. No negotiation on that I'm afraid just accept.

Thanks John
 
djt said:
The “best AMD desktop” CPU (the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition) just barely keeps up with Intel's Core 2 Q9650, let alone an i7.


http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=49&p2=102&c=1


I'm currently running TRS2010 on two machines, one with a Q9650 and one with an i7 975 and without a doubt with CPU dependent games like TRS2010 the Core 2 get's clobbered by the i7.


By the way I would seriously take a look at more reputable hardware sites then TomsHardware, that site is well know for B.S.
Click to expand...

I have a scientific background and feel very comfortable with the approach that tomshardware.com takes. It doesn't benchmark with Trainz but very few people do. When I did the specs for buying computers for 5,000 people I must confess toms was critical to saving the odd $100,000 and getting better performance but thank you for your opinion.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
$400-$600 off the shelf computer do not have ecc memory and that is a requirement that must be met. No negotiation on that I'm afraid just accept.

Thanks John
Click to expand...

Well if my off the shelf, years old, Toshiba Vista 1Gb Laptop runs TRS2006 VERY darn well, indeed, and my HP Vista Desktop 3Gb Ram, 500Mb hard drive, Nividia 8600 video card, also runs TRS2006 SUPERBLY well. Why do I need a high end gaming PC for $2500-$4000 ? ? ?

If only ($2500-$4000) PC's were the only PC's that would run Trainz...how come there are so many hundereds of thousands of low end PC users thoroughly enjoying the game ? They do not have top of the line PC's...and "ecc", and it is not a requirement.

You don't need an extremely high end, nitrogen cooled PC, to run Trainz. You are absolutely, completely, exceptionally, chock full of Balogna !

If only High End PC owners could run Trainz, Auran would have been completely out of business, many, many, years ago !

Please explain to me: If My PC is not capable of running Trainz...HOW COME IT DOES RUN, and extremely well I must add ? ? ? GEE I guess I do have "ecc", on my old 1GB Vista laptop, that is a $400-$600, off the shelf model !
 
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johnwhelan said:
I have a scientific background and feel very comfortable with the approach that tomshardware.com takes. It doesn't benchmark with Trainz but very few people do. When I did the specs for buying computers for 5,000 people I must confess toms was critical to saving the odd $100,000 and getting better performance but thank you for your opinion.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...


My background is in working in the US railroad industry along with building and maintaining gaming machines as a side business.

Having a “scientific background” I would expect you would agree that getting information from just one hardware site is not a good idea. I regularly visit around 5-10 hardware sites a day.

One of the best out there is Anandtech.com.
 
cascaderailroad said:
Well if my off the shelf, years old, Toshiba Vista 1Gb Laptop runs TRS2006 VERY darn well, indeed, and my HP Vista Desktop 3Gb Ram, 500Mb hard drive, Nividia 8600 video card, also runs TRS2006 SUPERBLY well. Why do I need a high end gaming PC for $2500-$4000 ? ? ?

If only ($2500-$4000) PC's were the only PC's that would run Trainz...how come there are so many hundereds of thousands of low end PC users thoroughly enjoying the game ? They do not have top of the line PC's...and "ecc", and it is not a requirement.

You don't need an extremely high end, nitrogen cooled PC, to run Trainz. You are absolutely, completely, exceptionally, chock full of Balogna !

If only High End PC owners could run Trainz, Auran would have been completely out of business, many, many, years ago !

Please explain to me: If My PC is not capable of running Trainz...HOW COME IT DOES RUN, and extremely well I must add ? ? ? GEE I guess I do have "ecc", on my old 1GB Vista laptop, that is a $400-$600, off the shelf model !
Click to expand...

ecc memory actually slows the computer down slightly. Just accept I like error correcting memory and have more faith in it. It's to do with my background and the sort of person I am. When I create or do calculations I like to have faith that the answer is correct and a bit has not flipped. On a typical machine a memory bit will flip about once a month. If you have dodgy memory more often.

When memory controllers were not on the cpu using ecc memory was fairly mainstream however these days the memory controllers are built into the cpu so I can't use a conventional Intel desktop cpu any more I need a cpu that has an ecc memory controller built in or Xeon which pushes me into the exotic stuff. Unfortunately Dell and HP Xeon workstations only come with certified GPUs for things such as autocad which are much more expensive and not as fast as the mainstream video cards.

Your laptop almost certainly does not have ecc memory very few do.

Cheerio John
 
djt said:
My background is in working in the US railroad industry along with building and maintaining gaming machines as a side business.

Having a “scientific background” I would expect you would agree that getting information from just one hardware site is not a good idea. I regularly visit around 5-10 hardware sites a day.

One of the best out there is Anandtech.com.
Click to expand...

I use anandtech amongst others but not having a requirement to build and maintain gaming machines I must confess I don't visit 25 different gaming hardware sites per day to find out the latest fashion. I'm just interested in Trainz performance and will it be reliable and secure.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
I'm just interested in Trainz performance and will it be reliable and secure.

Cheerio John
Click to expand...


Exactly and that’s the reason why Intel has an edge over AMD. As far as “reliable” or better yet “stability” goes, that’s just another reason to go with Intel; their chipset’s are just plain and simply more refined.

As far as “secure” goes my gaming setups are strictly just that, for gaming only so they are not used for surfing the net so “security” isn’t an issue.
 
djt said:
Exactly and that’s the reason why Intel has an edge over AMD. As far as “reliable” or better yet “stability” goes, that’s just another reason to go with Intel; their chipset’s are just plain and simply more refined.

As far as “secure” goes my gaming setups are strictly just that, for gaming only so they are not used for surfing the net so “security” isn’t an issue.
Click to expand...

It's a balance between money in which case a more mainstream AMD solution would give me a cheaper ecc memory solution or Intel might be friendlier with a nVidia fermi. I don't think money is a major issue at the moment so the Xeon based solution is slightly more favoured if fermi isn't a flop.

It would be nice if Trainz was written to Directx 9 or 11 rather than to favour nVidia propitiatory video standards so I could simply buy the best card that met the standard but that's life with Trainz.

Cheerio John
 
johnwhelan said:
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']It's a balance between money in which case a more mainstream AMD solution would give me a cheaper ecc memory solution or Intel might be friendlier with a nVidia fermi.[/font]
Cheerio John
Click to expand...


How would “a more mainstream AMD solution give you a cheaper ecc memory solution”?


[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']It would be nice if Trainz was written to Directx 9 or 11 rather than to favour nVidia propitiatory video standards so I could simply buy the best card that met the standard but that's life with Trainz.[/font]
Click to expand...


ATI has OpenGL support in their drivers also so what are these “propitiatory video standards” that you talk about?

By the way I’m running TS2010 on two gaming setups one with an ATI 5870 and one with an Nvidia GTX 285. I don’t have any problems running the game on either setup.
 
djt said:
How would “a more mainstream AMD solution give you a cheaper ecc memory solution”?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363 mainstream motherboard that supports ecc memory. $179

cpu - AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition $165 total $344

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=35908&vpn=P6T6 WS REVOLUTION&manufacture=ASUS $380

cpu [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Intel Xeon W3520 Quad Core Processor $350[/FONT] total $730




ATI has OpenGL support in their drivers also so what are these “propitiatory video standards” that you talk about?

By the way I’m running TS2010 on two gaming setups one with an ATI 5870 and one with an Nvidia GTX 285. I don’t have any problems running the game on either setup.
Click to expand...

OpenGl gets updated every five years the latest standard is openGL 3.0 which no one is talking about because its full of support for very old junk. This stuff started off on Unix workstations and is not optimized for Windows. Opengl 2.0 actually dates back to 2004-9-4. However companies are allowed to add propitiatory extensions to the OpenGL standard with a view to getting them added at the next standard. How much change has there been in video cards over the last six years and remember the standards process lasts about a year so both nVidia and ATI have added extensions that favour their own cards.

I'm currently running ATI 3850 without problems but there are subtle differences between running Trainz on the two cards and because nVidia offers advice to Auran on how to get the best out of their cards that gives them the edge for Trainz.

Cheerio John
 
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