trainzamtrakfan
Californian Trainzer
Wait... they offer support for their products?! :hehe:
Sorry, I could not stop myself. I really tried.. my hands... they just kept typing.
:hehe: , that is a hand full of good chosen words
Have You seen this
- Thread starter robin_hoods
- Start date
:hehe: , that is a hand full of good chosen words
stagecoach
75377
I still find 04 to be the most stable of them all. Ive moved some routes into TC3 and 09 but the operating gets to messed up so I dont bother to much with it. Draw distance has reduced and I find that 09 has a refresh rate that fails to keep up with looking out of a carriage window so no scenery for most of the time. At least in 04 i can watch the scenery going by. I will have to make several backups of all my content just incase I continue with it.
Buffalo_trains93
It's snowy here.
To Meatloaf, I must say, I have to agree with you on many of the points stated below expect for 2.
One, you say about encouraging content creators to upgrade. For some, that may be so, but for the older guys that have gotten used to all the 04, and 06 standards, I think this will not hold true. I think they will stay in the 04 and 06 format, and leave it at that, creating and hosting on 3rd party sites, and there again, NV3/Auran still loses some form of income.
Secondly, you speak in the last paragraph about money as pertaining to some of us paying our dues aswell. You must take into effect that some of us (Not myself but other Trainzers) may not be old enough to hold a job, or some of the unfortuante soles that lost there job due to an economy fluxuation. Also, for those of us who cannot upgrade our CPU's to handle 09 or 2010, myself being one of them, what are we to do? Left in the dust while content is moreorless (Off of 3rd party sites) for 09 or 2010?
Belive me, I understand the need for the money, and the income NV3/Auran must get, but we have to take into account the people that at this present time, cannot upgrade or do anything about there current status.
Like I said Meatloaf, after reading your post I must agree, but we must take into account those people that cannot do all the things required to become 09, 2010 users.
Take care,
Ryan:wave:
One, you say about encouraging content creators to upgrade. For some, that may be so, but for the older guys that have gotten used to all the 04, and 06 standards, I think this will not hold true. I think they will stay in the 04 and 06 format, and leave it at that, creating and hosting on 3rd party sites, and there again, NV3/Auran still loses some form of income.
Secondly, you speak in the last paragraph about money as pertaining to some of us paying our dues aswell. You must take into effect that some of us (Not myself but other Trainzers) may not be old enough to hold a job, or some of the unfortuante soles that lost there job due to an economy fluxuation. Also, for those of us who cannot upgrade our CPU's to handle 09 or 2010, myself being one of them, what are we to do? Left in the dust while content is moreorless (Off of 3rd party sites) for 09 or 2010?
Belive me, I understand the need for the money, and the income NV3/Auran must get, but we have to take into account the people that at this present time, cannot upgrade or do anything about there current status.
Like I said Meatloaf, after reading your post I must agree, but we must take into account those people that cannot do all the things required to become 09, 2010 users.
Take care,
Ryan:wave:
Just one flaw in phasing out old content there is nothing wrong with it. At least the mesh and most of the textures. The new criteria seems to be requiring shadows normal mapping, giant size textures and much else. Perhaps the programming should be altered as unless there is a large enough pool of skilled people willing to spend many additional hours and have sufficent skills it simply can't work. If you don't make content yourself how can people possibly know what it entails. Making the mesh and texture in trainz is on half the work. Trying to understand configurations that keep altering is the other half. I wonder how the programmng in c sharp is being done in open rails. B
jadebullet
might be back?
This is a cheap money grab, and quite frankly, it is crap.
Trainz is a USER CONTENT BASED game. Auran has made pretty much nothing in the past several years it seems. Trees were made by speed tree. Routes were made by users, the new SD40 was purchased off of a 3rd party mesh selling website, hell, they are even conning users into making commercials for them for free.
Auran... sorry ALWYZFail(I forgot that they were bought out) seems to have stopped caring about the customer, and seems to be either A) Moving to abandon the Trainz series all together or B) Trying to run TRS like it is a normal, non content based game.
It seems like it is always one step forward and two steps back lately. TC3 "fixed" the steam engine physics, and how the engine specs and sound were fixed, but this has essencially rendered the steamers useless because there is(from what I can tell) only one engine spec that works, and it has almost no Tractive effort.
Then 2009 WBE was released, (EE promised within a month) and introduced the 5m grid. It also made the perfectly good(in my mind, as well as alot of other people's minds) alpha trees, and anything else using alpha textures. Thank God that they included compatibility mode. Auran claimed that it was for performance reasons, and actually gave us a tree that showed the future. It looked horrible, especially from a distance, and had more polygons than a simple 2plane cross tree would. (Plus, you can actually have realistic branches with a cross three.)
Then, after a year, they came out with 2010EE. This looked pretty good, until we saw what had taken them so long, bargain basement speed trees. Now, don't get me wrong, I love speed tree in alot of aspects. It looks great in other games, it works great in other games. The animation is really good, the trees look great, but speedtree was not meant for a game such as Trainz. And, it doesn't help that it seems that they were bottom of the barrel trees at that. They at least look fine in spring to fall, but they run into the failure of 3D trees in winter, bare branchs. Then there was the animation. The trees act like they are in a hurricane. And even better yet, they automatically replace perfectly good trees, and are hard to delete, or even rotate because the origins of the trees are off center. Oh, and have they fixed that bug with ATI cards yet?
Now, what was the purpose for the animated trees in my opinion? I think that they were thrown in as a flashy distraction so that noone would notice that, aside from the new UI, there was really no changes to the game over 09. And even then, there were no real fixes to problems that have plagued the game from the beginning. Things such as lack of doppler effect(From what I hear, the original game had doppler, but the script was broken by subsequent installments), Realistic collision boxes(you know, so that bump stops actually work), more realistic derailment recognition(As in, the entire train doesn't derail, just what would derail. That way it isn't as frustrating if you do derail in a session due to the operational aspect of being able to clean some stuff up.[such as removing cars that are still on the tracks]), finding a way that you could use alpha trees as well as speed trees without failure in native mode(you know, since your idea to force 3D trees and sell us a Treez pack failed), actually create your own routes, rolling stock and commercials.
Sorry if I sound cynical, but this is what I feel is happening. It is almost as if ALWYZfail is trying to turn into EA Games. I am sure that there are a few people on the DEV team, hell, even all of the DEV team that are trying their hardest, but I really don't think that the new ownership of the company has helped them out. At least Windwalker still comes onto the forum to the site to talk about things.
By the way, does anyone miss the days when Tony would come onto the forum and let us know about things?
Trainz is a USER CONTENT BASED game. Auran has made pretty much nothing in the past several years it seems. Trees were made by speed tree. Routes were made by users, the new SD40 was purchased off of a 3rd party mesh selling website, hell, they are even conning users into making commercials for them for free.
Auran... sorry ALWYZFail(I forgot that they were bought out) seems to have stopped caring about the customer, and seems to be either A) Moving to abandon the Trainz series all together or B) Trying to run TRS like it is a normal, non content based game.
It seems like it is always one step forward and two steps back lately. TC3 "fixed" the steam engine physics, and how the engine specs and sound were fixed, but this has essencially rendered the steamers useless because there is(from what I can tell) only one engine spec that works, and it has almost no Tractive effort.
Then 2009 WBE was released, (EE promised within a month) and introduced the 5m grid. It also made the perfectly good(in my mind, as well as alot of other people's minds) alpha trees, and anything else using alpha textures. Thank God that they included compatibility mode. Auran claimed that it was for performance reasons, and actually gave us a tree that showed the future. It looked horrible, especially from a distance, and had more polygons than a simple 2plane cross tree would. (Plus, you can actually have realistic branches with a cross three.)
Then, after a year, they came out with 2010EE. This looked pretty good, until we saw what had taken them so long, bargain basement speed trees. Now, don't get me wrong, I love speed tree in alot of aspects. It looks great in other games, it works great in other games. The animation is really good, the trees look great, but speedtree was not meant for a game such as Trainz. And, it doesn't help that it seems that they were bottom of the barrel trees at that. They at least look fine in spring to fall, but they run into the failure of 3D trees in winter, bare branchs. Then there was the animation. The trees act like they are in a hurricane. And even better yet, they automatically replace perfectly good trees, and are hard to delete, or even rotate because the origins of the trees are off center. Oh, and have they fixed that bug with ATI cards yet?
Now, what was the purpose for the animated trees in my opinion? I think that they were thrown in as a flashy distraction so that noone would notice that, aside from the new UI, there was really no changes to the game over 09. And even then, there were no real fixes to problems that have plagued the game from the beginning. Things such as lack of doppler effect(From what I hear, the original game had doppler, but the script was broken by subsequent installments), Realistic collision boxes(you know, so that bump stops actually work), more realistic derailment recognition(As in, the entire train doesn't derail, just what would derail. That way it isn't as frustrating if you do derail in a session due to the operational aspect of being able to clean some stuff up.[such as removing cars that are still on the tracks]), finding a way that you could use alpha trees as well as speed trees without failure in native mode(you know, since your idea to force 3D trees and sell us a Treez pack failed), actually create your own routes, rolling stock and commercials.
Sorry if I sound cynical, but this is what I feel is happening. It is almost as if ALWYZfail is trying to turn into EA Games. I am sure that there are a few people on the DEV team, hell, even all of the DEV team that are trying their hardest, but I really don't think that the new ownership of the company has helped them out. At least Windwalker still comes onto the forum to the site to talk about things.
By the way, does anyone miss the days when Tony would come onto the forum and let us know about things?
zatovisualworks
Veteran but blossoming
The only sure thing we do know at IBTZ is that we'll continue showing our... 
That's our policy...
as long as technically possible. MSTS survived commercial decisions by the Redmont Empire. Trainz can too. Even surviving EA-type decisions like these.
The giving-all-support-side of Alberte :wave:
Buffalo_trains93
It's snowy here.
cascaderailroad
New member
09 & 10 are defective products...great plan
So this means that the TRS2006 route that I am working on will be pretty much worthless and unusable is 09 & 10 Trainz versions...as Trainz 09 & 10 do not work well at all, and 09 & 10 are not perfected. A perfect time to pull the plug...when the new version is a defective inferior product. I think Toyota runs Auran.:'(
Remember Dec 17th 2012 the Myan calendar predicts the end of the world...only 2 years 9 months to play Trainz...then Everything will be unsupported !
So this means that the TRS2006 route that I am working on will be pretty much worthless and unusable is 09 & 10 Trainz versions...as Trainz 09 & 10 do not work well at all, and 09 & 10 are not perfected. A perfect time to pull the plug...when the new version is a defective inferior product. I think Toyota runs Auran.:'(
Remember Dec 17th 2012 the Myan calendar predicts the end of the world...only 2 years 9 months to play Trainz...then Everything will be unsupported !
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jadebullet
might be back?
One more thing. Most content, such as Dinorius_redundicus's content works great in 09 and 10.
Now, what is going to happen to content creators is that they are either going to be forced to purchase a new version in order to upload their content to the DLS(until that one is obsoleted) or they will have to go to a 3rd party site. The later will probably take precedent, as some people prefer 04 or 06 to the later versions(they don't like the drawbacks that came along with it). This will cause a crapstorm when it comes to routes released afterwards, as there will be an increased amount of 3rd party KUIDs to go hunting for in order to get it running.
This is a huge slap in the face to the content creators that the community relies on. Some of us are comfortable with our versions. It has nothing to do with money. I could easily afford 10 right now, but I don't want it. I am going to stick with 09 compatibility mode because the benifits of 10 don't outweigh the huge drawbacks in my opinion.
And that is my opinion, and my decision. I shouldn't be FORCED to buy the new version, with things that I don't want in it, just to upload content that the community and game rely on.
And before you say "Alex, you flaming troll asshole who is just ranting against Auran, you own 09. What are you whining about. You are just whining because you don't like Auran! Plus, you stab puppies! And Unicorns!" let me say this. I don't hate Auran. I don't want them to fail. I would love for them to succeed. But they have unfortunately started down the path that Electronic Arts traveled before it became EA Games, the company that hates its customers. The company that had to change the "Go to Hell" slogan of their latest games in the commercial, to "Hell Awaits," not because they were being censored, but because people were actually thinking that that was the company's new slogan. And as for me owning 09. That doesn't matter. I will be hit by the same crap in 2014, plus I completely understand the people who still use 04 and 06.
By the way, I can see this thread being locked very soon, or at least the negative stuff being removed, as that seems par for the course lately.
Now, what is going to happen to content creators is that they are either going to be forced to purchase a new version in order to upload their content to the DLS(until that one is obsoleted) or they will have to go to a 3rd party site. The later will probably take precedent, as some people prefer 04 or 06 to the later versions(they don't like the drawbacks that came along with it). This will cause a crapstorm when it comes to routes released afterwards, as there will be an increased amount of 3rd party KUIDs to go hunting for in order to get it running.
This is a huge slap in the face to the content creators that the community relies on. Some of us are comfortable with our versions. It has nothing to do with money. I could easily afford 10 right now, but I don't want it. I am going to stick with 09 compatibility mode because the benifits of 10 don't outweigh the huge drawbacks in my opinion.
And that is my opinion, and my decision. I shouldn't be FORCED to buy the new version, with things that I don't want in it, just to upload content that the community and game rely on.
And before you say "Alex, you flaming troll asshole who is just ranting against Auran, you own 09. What are you whining about. You are just whining because you don't like Auran! Plus, you stab puppies! And Unicorns!" let me say this. I don't hate Auran. I don't want them to fail. I would love for them to succeed. But they have unfortunately started down the path that Electronic Arts traveled before it became EA Games, the company that hates its customers. The company that had to change the "Go to Hell" slogan of their latest games in the commercial, to "Hell Awaits," not because they were being censored, but because people were actually thinking that that was the company's new slogan. And as for me owning 09. That doesn't matter. I will be hit by the same crap in 2014, plus I completely understand the people who still use 04 and 06.
By the way, I can see this thread being locked very soon, or at least the negative stuff being removed, as that seems par for the course lately.
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Buffalo_trains93
It's snowy here.
I'm with ya Cascade, finally get a decent, creative route, and NV3/Auran pulls this. This is why I want and think I may just drop Trainz altogether. By drop, I mean not buy any more products. Instead of running this like a non-content driven game, which is what it is, because if we didn't have 04, 06, Classic's and all that, do you think we'd have all this great content? The answer is no, we'd be JUST learning how to do things, and be in the dark ages. Why are they trying to fix somethig that isn't broken? I just do not understand.
Take care,
Ryan
Take care,
Ryan
Nope, they'll still take it. Just after September you'll need a FCT or newer version of Trainz to access it through CMP. They found a way to make your older version useless and deny you access to the DLS through CMP without "upgrading" or paying for a FCT.
Stinks, stinks real bad. Somehow intentionally crippling a functioning program to force an upgrade just doesn't seem right.
Dave....
Stinks, stinks real bad. Somehow intentionally crippling a functioning program to force an upgrade just doesn't seem right.
Dave....
jadebullet
might be back?
At least Toyota is trying to fix the problem.
No, this reminds me more of Dodge, when the Dakota and Durango were having issues with the wheel falling off at speed. They claimed that it wasn't a big enough issue to need a recall.
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
No it just that with your older version, Auran will not be supporting content creation for it or suppling the server space for the storage and downloading of the older content. There already is so many 3rd parties offering non Auran DLS service for older content and there is no reason for this to stop.
Q: Can I still access the Download Station after the end-of-support date?
A: Access granted to you by the unsupported product may be terminated. If you have purchased access through other means (newer products, First Class Ticket, etc.) then your access will continue thanks to these products.
Q: Can I still access the Download Station from within Trainz, Trainz Helper, or Content Manager after the end-of-support date?
A: Access to our servers from an unsupported product is not guaranteed, regardless of your level of Download Station access. You may need to download the content separately and then manually move it into the unsupported Trainz installation.
It will be there, just won't be able to access it through CMP. 04 and 06 content will still be supported, the game and access won't.
Dave.......
A: Access granted to you by the unsupported product may be terminated. If you have purchased access through other means (newer products, First Class Ticket, etc.) then your access will continue thanks to these products.
Q: Can I still access the Download Station from within Trainz, Trainz Helper, or Content Manager after the end-of-support date?
A: Access to our servers from an unsupported product is not guaranteed, regardless of your level of Download Station access. You may need to download the content separately and then manually move it into the unsupported Trainz installation.
It will be there, just won't be able to access it through CMP. 04 and 06 content will still be supported, the game and access won't.
Dave.......
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Reckless endangerment
For me offering to support a product four years into the future sounds like commercial recklessness. If the Trainz folks have developed some sort of software crystal ball I want it! How can anybody predict what operating systems, hardware developments and economic conditions are going to be in four years is beyond me. I hope they have good liability insurance.
I think this policy of Auran is very courageous . . . . and that's not a compliment!
Just my view . . . but what do I know?
Martin
For me offering to support a product four years into the future sounds like commercial recklessness. If the Trainz folks have developed some sort of software crystal ball I want it! How can anybody predict what operating systems, hardware developments and economic conditions are going to be in four years is beyond me. I hope they have good liability insurance.
I think this policy of Auran is very courageous . . . . and that's not a compliment!
Just my view . . . but what do I know?
Martin
meatloaf747
Spotter...
Hi Ryan,
I agree with you. There will be some creators, (young & old) that are set in there ways and don't want to change the way they do things. They have only ever created in UTC, 04 or 06 and that the way they want to stay. Good luck to them.
Unfortunately, eventually their great creations will start to be rejected by the DLS. As already mentioned, some will send their creations off to 3rd party sites to be hosted, while others won't bother and give up creating altogether.
I understand your comments about some of the community are to young, or have fallen on hard time and can't afford to buy a FCT (or upgrade their version of Trainz). That's why I only put 95% of the community should be "pulling there weight" as far as a FCT is concerned...
As for the hardware side of things. Personally I'm getting better frames rates in TS2010 than I was in 04/06 running the same routes, with the same or similar settings. (I can't say the same for 09). Note; that's with 3gigs plus of ram. 2010 likes 3-4 gigs of ram depending on OS...
Even if/when NV3/Auran cut off support for 04/06 towards the end of the year, there is a truckload of existing content for 04/06 on the DLS that will keep 04/06 users busy for several years to come!!!
For those that want to (or have to) stay with 04/06, not to much is going to change in the short to medium term. Particularly if you have already downloaded most of the existing 04/06 stuff you want off the DLS...
Trainz is ever evolving, and in my humble opinion, that the way it should be. There will be some that will be left behind, and there are some that don't want too (or can't afford too) move forward. - That's life.
But know matter what happens, that shouldn't stop those that are left behind, (or want to be left behind) enjoying what they already have today... At the end of the day, we are taking about a PC game/sim here. As most gamers (& game/sim developers) know, if the game doesn't evolve and keep up with the times, the shelf life is pretty limited.
Cheers, Mac...
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NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
No Auran have said over time the older content will be deleted - it just will not happen right away
Q: Will the Download Station continue to host content for Trainz editions beyond their end-of-support date?
A: We will not immediately remove older content from the Download Station, as newer editions of Trainz can still use this content.
jadebullet
might be back?
Meatloaf, it would be different if Trainz actually was evolving, but quite frankly, has pretty much stayed the same with a few minor tweaks here and there, and things being "fixed"(see rendered useless for no reason.)
There is nothing wrong with the content that these creators are making. It is not faulty. It doesn't destroy frames with errors and stuff.
Auran is acting like this is a game that they have made everything for, instead of a game that relies on other peoples content. It is as close to open source as you can get without it being open source.
Yes, the users who don't create anything can always move on, or stick to what they have, but the content creators are the ones who are really getting bent over a rail here.
It has become apparent that there are two objectives in doing this.
1) Cause a downloading frenzy for people who want to grab as much content for their old version as they can before they can't, thus boosting the FCT sales. (IT seems to be working as the DLS's server is currently full.)
2) To force people to buy their new version, which is just the old version with a few shiny bells, but nothing much changed... except for things that you like being broken for no reason, or for the reason to make money. (See cross trees, and the Treez pack scam)
Do you guys know what is funny? Take away the new User Interface from TRS10, and all you have is a PATCH for 09 that fixed the tree issue that Auran's greed spawned(sort of), that you had to pay for. I am waiting for them to charge me to download service packs seeing as that is what 2010 was. Sure, there were new routes added, but from the US side of things, only Tume's MILW route was actually new. The others are on the DLS.
I won't be surprised if the next trainz game is like 2010, except that it has fixed the spasming of the trees, and features new water that spins in a circle and takes off like a UFO, or ground that is constantly in earthquake mode. Or colored squares for locomotives that are controlled by your Wiimote.
There is nothing wrong with the content that these creators are making. It is not faulty. It doesn't destroy frames with errors and stuff.
Auran is acting like this is a game that they have made everything for, instead of a game that relies on other peoples content. It is as close to open source as you can get without it being open source.
Yes, the users who don't create anything can always move on, or stick to what they have, but the content creators are the ones who are really getting bent over a rail here.
It has become apparent that there are two objectives in doing this.
1) Cause a downloading frenzy for people who want to grab as much content for their old version as they can before they can't, thus boosting the FCT sales. (IT seems to be working as the DLS's server is currently full.)
2) To force people to buy their new version, which is just the old version with a few shiny bells, but nothing much changed... except for things that you like being broken for no reason, or for the reason to make money. (See cross trees, and the Treez pack scam)
Do you guys know what is funny? Take away the new User Interface from TRS10, and all you have is a PATCH for 09 that fixed the tree issue that Auran's greed spawned(sort of), that you had to pay for. I am waiting for them to charge me to download service packs seeing as that is what 2010 was. Sure, there were new routes added, but from the US side of things, only Tume's MILW route was actually new. The others are on the DLS.
I won't be surprised if the next trainz game is like 2010, except that it has fixed the spasming of the trees, and features new water that spins in a circle and takes off like a UFO, or ground that is constantly in earthquake mode. Or colored squares for locomotives that are controlled by your Wiimote.
No they haven't. They have said they won't do it immediately - that doesn't imply they will do it at all. If they stop to think, they won't do it at all, as I'm sure that a lot of older content will still be used on newer routes, and removing it would give an impossible to find dependency.
I think it's a bit short-sighted to remove the ability to upload older build items to the DLS, as this will almost certainly lead to more creators going entirely off-DLS, further undermining the 'one stop shop' for assets that is one of Trainz's core strengths. I'd prefer to keep the upload any version so long as it will run error free in TS2010 native mode rule. By all means restrict DLS access to those who have registered a product in the last 3-5 years or bought an FCT, as this (reasonably) ensures some revenue from those customers. I do feel sorry for those who have bought an older Trainz product (even from the Auran shop) recently, only to find it's not going to give them DLS access after September.
Paul
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meatloaf747
Spotter...
Yeah, bearcat your right. So if any of the community wants this "older content" that will eventually "get pulled", they better get downloading now !!! It's going to take a while if they haven't got a FCT...
Cheers, Mac...
Another footnote; The way I see it, NV3/Auran are almost in a no-win situation. They are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. Here's a simple example that anyone that's had Trainz's for a while will clearly understand. On the DLS there is a lot of content that was made for Trainz 1.3 - UTC - 04.
Now in it's day, most of this content was/looked very good. A lot of it still looks very good, and if "Native mode, error free", goes well - looks nice in 09/010.
But now a lot of that pre 04 SP4 stuff is "showing errors" and now looks like crap in 09/010. ******* Just one simple example; Alot of pre 04 SP4 rolling stock doesn't have moving, realistic looking bogeys. Great back in 02 - 03 - 04 era, but doesn't cut the mustard in 09/010... Sure some have been upgraded and new moving bogeys added. Great, but what do we do with the old, outdated ones that are still without moving bogeys on the DLS ??? - Personally, I say, slash & burn... Let's continue to move forwards, not backwards...
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