And don't forget that Trainz also has wooden train components so you can build a virtual railroad based on toys your children may already have in their toy box.
Need advice: Using Trainz as a design aid for real model layout.
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And don't forget that Trainz also has wooden train components so you can build a virtual railroad based on toys your children may already have in their toy box.
Steampower4884
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Yep, have that site already, also Mike's Small Track Plans. I consider Mike's site as my initial 'Bible' to N-scale. Even though it is the first web page with small track plans I encountered, it is one of the best ones.
Good question. Well, I am interested in your standard fair of coal, logging, lumber, lately I been shifting towards single industries that have a lot of car traffic a paper mill, a brewery, team track & Freight station.
I am leaning more towards creating a small town near one or two large industries. With a small layout you don't have much room for many spurs.
Since one of the real layout plans happens to be a coffee table project, it will be fully enclosed. So it is really a look, no touch deal. Consequentially I am looking into 'enclosed' rolling stock so this way you can't tell what is fully loaded or empty.
That file you posted, what do I do with it, I am not familiar with the .cdp extention.
Great! I have not see that site before, I will check it out later on.
As with many who replied here me too used to have a real HO model railway years ago, but because of the lack of room it got shelved some 20 years ago.:hehe:
From time to time I get the urge still to do something with it again, but reallly, since I discovered trainz and its possebilities to create 'real' curves, slopes and stations the whole idea to be restricted to a baseboard of one by two meters or even a room of three by four, seems quite limited. If there's anything that trainz doesn't cater for, it would be the joy of creating nice pieces of special scenery by hand. Of course, in a way you can do that with trainz as well by using a 3D creation program, but that just isn't the same as forming little pieces of wood, plastic, metal or whatever you can think of into that little masterpiece you can see on your railway someday.
Oh well, just my two cents I suppose.
Greetings from rainy Amsterdam,
Jan
Agreed, that is the fun of real model railroading, you can get in there and make a nice 3D diorama. Which is why I am still considering it, but with finding Trainz I realize that it can satisfy my needs for running trains and also within the same program I can design elements that I want to try out BEFORE incorporating them into a model. Thus I believe that Trainz will tremendously improve the model because I will have a good plan to work from that has very little guesswork.
One downside with having a model railroad that is small is that if you make minor changes on it...it probably will be down and unable to be used for a while (a problem with those with large layouts don't have). Thus once completed if I do make changes later on...there is always Trainz to cure the running 'fix'.
Yes, I have heard about that article too. I don't get MRR by subscription, I just go to the book store and get a magazine if I like the articles. I would like to see tha article though.
Anyway N-Scale isn't exactly 1/2 of HO. It is a little larger, I found that out the hard way when trying to redesign an HO layout in N scale in Atlast TRS. On an HO scale layout you have enough room in 4 by 8 to put a single straight piece or turnout on the short sides. Not so in N-scale 2 by 4. You don't even have enough room for easements in N 2 by 4. So an HO layout that uses easements or has a turnout on the short sides WILL NOT transfer gracefully to N scale. I found out that going to 28" on the short and about 54" on the long side you can faithfully duplicate the HO layout in N-scale. So given those dimentions I would think that N scale is .56 or .57 that of HO? (Correct me if I am wrong here).
Thanx for the info guys!
Geo
On my 5.5' x 10' N scale layout I designed it for HO first, then did it in N so the curves and grades would not be too extreme. Of coarse in N I was able to do some double track and have more sidings and such.
Then I converted it to Trainz using one base board. Look for my Elko and Lincoln on the DLS for 3 versions of Trainz.
Then I converted it to Trainz using one base board. Look for my Elko and Lincoln on the DLS for 3 versions of Trainz.
That is correct. HO is 1:87 and N is 1:160. Half of HO would be 1:174. So N is slightly larger than half of HO scale.
William
Steampower4884
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I have been thinking about a double track for the coffee table layout. With a couple of sidings/spurs. In that aspect I could have two trains running at one time and the spurs could allow me to switch out one of the running trains for a third. While I COULD do switching on the coffee table layout, it is mostly for show and to watch trains go 'round and 'round. There would only be 6 turnouts at the most.
The larger shelf layout that I am considering would be mostly a switching layout with the possibility for continuous running either via a complex computer controlled switchback system or a traction (trolley) line that could make a 12" diameter turn. This plan is far more ambitious and requires quite a few turnouts...something I lack the '$' right now.
So that would be around .55 to .56 difference in comparing N to HO...I guess I wasn't too far off on my calculations
.Anyway, last night I did experiment with some of the rulers in Trainz and I CAN get the curves pretty close to where I want them. But I quickly realized that working with the 2' by 4' coffee table plan is very limited to what you can do. Basically there is just enough room to model part of a town and perhaps just two industries. BUT that is what Trainz will be good for is that I CAN make a mockup of what I would like to do and see what works and what doesn't.
Geo
cdp is the extension for compacted Trainz assets. After you have downloaded the .cdp file, you can import it into Trainz using the Content Manager.
Steampower4884
New member
Hmm, I DID try that and nothing comes up.
Where is the content manager? Something I haven't come across yet.
Yes, I have TRS2004 installed. However, once I get through the scenarios I am probably going to try out TRS2006.
Thanx,
Geo
Make sure the Trainz and PreSP3 Trainz boxes are checked.
N scale kuid:49340:100139, a 3x6 route.
Who says you cannot design small layouts in trainz, there is at least one 8'x4' on the dls, then there is this one I designed for myself in 'On30' at only 8'x2',
Overhead view
some random shots,
Trainz started out as a "Model Train Simulator", why else would they provide the scale ruler
Cheers David
1st, nice shelf layout.
But the reality of it is that your shelf layout is about what my brother has tried in multiple scales for years in the limited space constrants he has at his home. His current layout now being torn down, the BCT,has about 6 industries, and even a fiddle yard. The problem with it is that the only trains are the repetition of 2 car consists switching the same industries. That gets stale quickly. And that's been his problem over the years.
Your shelf layout has those problems as well, and a track to scenery ratio that really high. The assortment of industries like the grain elevator located next to a water scene is somewhat less then prototypical. Most industries are way to small to warrant rail service with the exception of the grain elevator, and the trains start and terminate online. Fortunately with Trainz, all those problems can easily be corrected by the addition of a little more space.
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cascaderailroad
New member
I agree the Trainz can be a helpfull tool when planing a model RR, to test it out in virtual reality..
A ball of string, or twine, in conjunction with using a tape measure...drape the string on the floor over-exadurating the overall estimate size of the layout, right on the rug or floor tiles, will give you a guestimate of the space that you have available for your layout.
A ball of string, or twine, in conjunction with using a tape measure...drape the string on the floor over-exadurating the overall estimate size of the layout, right on the rug or floor tiles, will give you a guestimate of the space that you have available for your layout.
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The buildings used on that layout are just place holders that happen to be about the right size, but their are 5 sidings so there would be 5 different wagons, enough variety to last for a good while, especially as I am scratch building/heavy kit bashing all of the buildings, rolling stock and loco's, and as for them being to small, even basement empires suffer from that complaint, even in trainz you have to have selective compression and unrealistic edges to your world, how many 4 or 5 board long shunting yards do you see? how many 4 board crossing loops? how many rivers wider than half a board? how many industries can swallow whole trains.
If you want prototypical sized maps you had better start on a layout that will be 1,000's of baseboards, you do the math, viewing distance 5km or 7 boards, that means 14 boards wide, so for every 100km of track you will need 1,400 boards, and there are very few railroads that are only 100km long.
You are comparing apples to oranges, modeling (in any scale) has its own rewards and so does trainz, I can sit at the computer alone for hours putting a layout together, or even fragging some aliens, or I could sit at the table and do some modeling next to my wife who is doing some craft, see what I mean apples to oranges, sometimes I feel like an apple, sometimes an orange
sometimes I even feel human :hehe: Cheers David
Steampower4884
New member
Hello All,
Ok, last night I made the jump and installed TRS2006. I have not tried it's download manager as of yet as I pretty much just spent the first few hours with the program just finding my way around and trying out some of the new routes. For a full recap of my experiences, check out my other posts here in the forum. I main one is under the "Trainz Complete Collection" subject heading.
Ooops! I had noticed that...the first couple of days I was downloading with the Download Helper that the Trainz check box WAS checked off, but now it isn't. I wonder if that could be my problem all along. Does that box HAVE to be checked off for dependencies to download? I just thought that with it not checked off, I just wouldn't see "Trainz" only content.
I was wondering about this too in regards to those small switcher type "time saver" puzzles. Everyone keeps saying they are very fun...but I was wondering about the long term interest. In my case I am pretty much going to be the only one actually 'operating' the trains. But for the most part the trains would be for 'viewing' and thus I am wondering that I should have some form of continuous running, even if it means a small trolley running around a switching layout. I like the trolley idea because it enters another factor into the switching layout because now you have to work around the trolley schedule. (I intend to model in N-scale btw).
However, I did think of a different alternative to a model railroad construction and that perhaps I would go with a traditional oval type layout (perhaps in a coffee table), but switching would be very limited in a case like this. But it would certainly solve the issue of viewing.
The downside is that the coffee table layout would be no larger than 2' x 4'...so like with the switching layout, there isn't too much room to work with.
Well, in my case, the size is fixed. It is either a continuous 2' x 4' or a 15" by 10' shelf layout. I don't have any other space to work with. The idea of the coffee table came about because I DO have cats and small children. The layout pretty much will be a HANDS OFF (and Pets off) venture.
Well, as with any kind of model railroad you do have your selective compression. So you have to condense things down. Now in terms of industries...I don't think I would have more than one or two industries on a small switching layout like that to accommodate only ONE commodity. I would rather choose something like a paper mill or a steel mill in which you could have a variety of different cars that could be brought in. A brewery? That takes many different cars too.
Same is true of a freight house or team track. So if you have a switching layout with lets say a paper mill on one side, a steel mill on the other side and a combined freight house with team track in the center...well, I would say that you have quite a few switching options right there with just the three main industries.
Why would you want to do that? Do you really want to sit there and stare at blank scenery for hours? As I recall there was one scenario in Trainz that I did like. Uuuuhhh something to do with a nice ALCO 636 going to a ROBE mine. That was a LONG scenario. While the run did seem nice and protoypically long, it was also a bit boring because the scenery was pretty much barren sandy desert...with the occasional RR X-ing and even more occasional bridge.
Sometimes you DO want the selective compression in a layout so this way you can model the interesting aspects of the railroad and cut out the more mundane parts.
Granted with Trainz you can model much more than in a real model railroad simply because of the cost/size issues with a real model railroad (mrr from here on in). In a real MRR you REALLY have to compress things down and then run laps (if you have an oval) to simulate a long run. In Trainz you don't have to run those laps. You can stretch them out. But I don't think I would go crazy and model 2 hours of vast 'nothing' just to aim to get closer to a prototypical route. That is a lot of time and programming space. I would rather fill that in with more interesting details.
Yes, I do agree in that aspect that Trainz will not REPLACE my desire to have a real mrr. I still DO want a model railroad even though it will be small. BUT! Trainz does pacify my needs and I can create longer routes. What more is that because I can play with Trainz and see how various industries operate (based on creations of others), it will give me a good insight as to what industries I will like in a real mrr.
Since you mentioned others interacting with a real mmr, I was wondering if there is a multi-player option planned for Trainz. I think that would be a GREAT addition to the program. In that aspect you can set up about 3 or 4 computer terminals (or go on-line for that matter) and have others interact in the same route. This way you just add a tremendous amount of realism to Trainz because you will be working the model railroad with REAL people as you would with a real mmr. Has this been thought of before?
Geo
Ok, last night I made the jump and installed TRS2006. I have not tried it's download manager as of yet as I pretty much just spent the first few hours with the program just finding my way around and trying out some of the new routes. For a full recap of my experiences, check out my other posts here in the forum. I main one is under the "Trainz Complete Collection" subject heading.
Ooops! I had noticed that...the first couple of days I was downloading with the Download Helper that the Trainz check box WAS checked off, but now it isn't. I wonder if that could be my problem all along. Does that box HAVE to be checked off for dependencies to download? I just thought that with it not checked off, I just wouldn't see "Trainz" only content.
I was wondering about this too in regards to those small switcher type "time saver" puzzles. Everyone keeps saying they are very fun...but I was wondering about the long term interest. In my case I am pretty much going to be the only one actually 'operating' the trains. But for the most part the trains would be for 'viewing' and thus I am wondering that I should have some form of continuous running, even if it means a small trolley running around a switching layout. I like the trolley idea because it enters another factor into the switching layout because now you have to work around the trolley schedule. (I intend to model in N-scale btw).
However, I did think of a different alternative to a model railroad construction and that perhaps I would go with a traditional oval type layout (perhaps in a coffee table), but switching would be very limited in a case like this. But it would certainly solve the issue of viewing.
The downside is that the coffee table layout would be no larger than 2' x 4'...so like with the switching layout, there isn't too much room to work with.
Well, in my case, the size is fixed. It is either a continuous 2' x 4' or a 15" by 10' shelf layout. I don't have any other space to work with. The idea of the coffee table came about because I DO have cats and small children. The layout pretty much will be a HANDS OFF (and Pets off) venture.
Well, as with any kind of model railroad you do have your selective compression. So you have to condense things down. Now in terms of industries...I don't think I would have more than one or two industries on a small switching layout like that to accommodate only ONE commodity. I would rather choose something like a paper mill or a steel mill in which you could have a variety of different cars that could be brought in. A brewery? That takes many different cars too.
Same is true of a freight house or team track. So if you have a switching layout with lets say a paper mill on one side, a steel mill on the other side and a combined freight house with team track in the center...well, I would say that you have quite a few switching options right there with just the three main industries.
Why would you want to do that? Do you really want to sit there and stare at blank scenery for hours? As I recall there was one scenario in Trainz that I did like. Uuuuhhh something to do with a nice ALCO 636 going to a ROBE mine. That was a LONG scenario. While the run did seem nice and protoypically long, it was also a bit boring because the scenery was pretty much barren sandy desert...with the occasional RR X-ing and even more occasional bridge.
Sometimes you DO want the selective compression in a layout so this way you can model the interesting aspects of the railroad and cut out the more mundane parts.
Granted with Trainz you can model much more than in a real model railroad simply because of the cost/size issues with a real model railroad (mrr from here on in). In a real MRR you REALLY have to compress things down and then run laps (if you have an oval) to simulate a long run. In Trainz you don't have to run those laps. You can stretch them out. But I don't think I would go crazy and model 2 hours of vast 'nothing' just to aim to get closer to a prototypical route. That is a lot of time and programming space. I would rather fill that in with more interesting details.
You are comparing apples to oranges, modeling (in any scale) has its own rewards and so does trainz, I can sit at the computer alone for hours putting a layout together, or even fragging some aliens, or I could sit at the table and do some modeling next to my wife who is doing some craft, see what I mean apples to oranges, sometimes I feel like an apple, sometimes an orange
Cheers David
Yes, I do agree in that aspect that Trainz will not REPLACE my desire to have a real mrr. I still DO want a model railroad even though it will be small. BUT! Trainz does pacify my needs and I can create longer routes. What more is that because I can play with Trainz and see how various industries operate (based on creations of others), it will give me a good insight as to what industries I will like in a real mrr.
Since you mentioned others interacting with a real mmr, I was wondering if there is a multi-player option planned for Trainz. I think that would be a GREAT addition to the program. In that aspect you can set up about 3 or 4 computer terminals (or go on-line for that matter) and have others interact in the same route. This way you just add a tremendous amount of realism to Trainz because you will be working the model railroad with REAL people as you would with a real mmr. Has this been thought of before?
Geo
Steampower4884
New member
Geo, the post of mine you quoted was actually aimed at Tracker99's post
Cheers David
Oh! I can't chime in?!?!
Steampower4884
New member
Is that a three or a five chime
Cheers David
5 of course. You got that from pinball? In the chime/bell era the cheaper pinball machines had 3 chimes, the average was 4, and the best machines had 5.
Yep, pinball machines is another interest of mine.
Anyway, getting back on topic. I tried to check out the Content Manager last night...FREAKY! I definitely have to read up on the instructions for this puppy. Not for nothing, but the Download Helper from TRS2004 certainly "looks" easier. Ahhh, what happened to the days when you could just download a simple zip file!
Sorry nope, it was in reference to the loco air horns in use locally, chime = tone, they range from a pathetic weak one chime to a massive 5 chime, which deafens anything in its way :hehe:
the 5 chime, (one small horn hidden behind the middle horn) ............and the usual 3 chime
Cheers David
the 5 chime, (one small horn hidden behind the middle horn) ............and the usual 3 chime
Cheers David
Steampower4884
New member
Ahhh, gotcha. Yeah, when I was living in Farmingdale, our building was right next to the train tracks (luckily we were on the far side of the complex. We barely could hear the electric commuter trains go by, BUT when the large diesel freight trains came through...it didn't matter where you were in the building, you heard it.
Surprisingly a steam whistle on a steam train can go through you too if you are close enough. When I was in Strasburg in PA, I made the mistake of parking my booty right near a railroad crossing and when the #90 steam loco came by (A Baldwin Decapod), my family and I were about 50 feet from the train and boy oh boy that steam whistle was loud!
Here is the engine:
http://www.northnet.org/mushmed/Strasburg90.jpg
Clearly my favorite among the Strasburg steamers.
BTW, did you take those pictures yourself? Nice examples of F series locos. It is funny though, I am not really a fan of the F series locos, I prefer the more modern GP's, Dashes. The Alco 636 is one of my favorites of the diesels.
http://www.railroadmichigan.com/alcodemo636-2s1.jpg
I would have loved to see a 636 done up in Chessie colors...but those engines were way before Chessie's tenure.
Anyway, starting to ramble on.
I'm off!
Geo
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