"Rails & Ties" movie

I watched "Rails & Ties" movie this morning. When the engineer of a passenger train saw a car on the tracks, he tried to stop the train but he was afraid to use emergency brakes because they may cause passenger cars to derail from curved track. At the hearing, he told the people that he was afraid to use emergency brakes because they may cause passenger cars to derail from curved track and that the woman who parked the car on the tracks wanted to commit suicide. Her son tried to pull her out of the car but he couldn't do it and he escaped before the train hit the car. The boy found out where the engineer lived and got into a fight with him in his house but his wife who was dying of cancer stopped the fight. The boy decided to stay with the engineer and his wife after escaping from a foster home.

Your point being...?

i saw the movie also and thought it was pretty good.
The boy thought the engineer deliberately hit the car with out trying to stop by using his emergency brakes.
I think the movie also showed what an train engineer who is involved in an accident like that goes through later on.

derail from using the brakes....whatever, since when has Hollywood ever been accurate.

It was directed by Clint Eastwood's daughter

Don't know if its any good or not, but I have no intention of watching it

Klinger said:

derail from using the brakes....whatever, since when has Hollywood ever been accurate.

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Dunno about that. Think about it: The train is on a curve moving at moderate speed. I'm no physics major, but my guess would be that if the engineer had slammed on the emergency brakes, the inertia would cause the passenger cars to buckle, derail, and most likely "accordian." Now what if the car had driven away after that? He would've wrecked an entire passenger train, injuring many people, over nothing.

I've never seen the movie, but from what the OP is telling me, the engineer was only doing his job to minimize casualties.

Truemac said:

my guess would be that if the engineer had slammed on the emergency brakes, the inertia would cause the passenger cars to buckle, derail, and most likely "accordian."

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Well, your guess would be wrong. With very few exceptions (and none of the exceptions I know about being passenger equipment), each axle of each car of a train (at least in North America) is equipped with brakes, designed to so that if an emergency brake is applied by the engineer (or anyone else on the train), the brakes on the whole train would set up nearly simultaneously>. In the case of an engineer making an emergency application because of a car on the track, the train would most likely remain upright, and on the rails, but the passengers, especially those not seated, are apt to be thrown about, and suffer injuries.

ns

...yea..ya...

So you think it can't happen?

What about if the outside rail flipped over from the stress of all the weight being absorbed by the brakes, wheels, etc?

The engineer did not specifically say what the application would cause, but gave the end result. Kevin Bacon gave a great performance, but he always does...

To me this movie is not about educating the public about what trains can or cannot do, so I'll leave the technical explanations to the railroad consultants that were employed by the movie company.

I think the movie is mostly focused from an Operation Lifesaver point of view, from the engineer's point of view, the victim's family & the fact that many crossing accidents are in reality suicide cases...I personally know of two...

backyard said:

So you think it can't happen?

What about if the outside rail flipped over from the stress of all the weight being absorbed by the brakes, wheels, etc?

The engineer did not specifically say what the application would cause, but gave the end result. Kevin Bacon gave a great performance, but he always does...

To me this movie is not about educating the public about what trains can or cannot do, so I'll leave the technical explanations to the railroad consultants that were employed by the movie company.

I think the movie is mostly focused from an Operation Lifesaver point of view, from the engineer's point of view, the victim's family & the fact that many crossing accidents are in reality suicide cases...I personally know of two...

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If the outside rail flips, its of no fault to the engineer, thats the MOW's department. The only way to flip a rail is from rotted ties, believe me I do track work, well I did last winter, not looking likely this winter. If a rail rolls over from a train passing over it, brakes or no brakes its because the ties are rotted, and the spikes pull causing the whole damn thing to roll over. But the engineer would not know that, and should expect the MOW department to do their job

Like everyone has new trackwork....

...add the fact that the impact with the automobile increases dynamic forces against the train.

Today's railroads don't just reach over & big-hole the brake into emergency....that can & does result in derailments. It's better to place the throttle in neutral & make a stop application that gradually brings the train to a stop...it will usually knock the car out of the way, or push it down the track. Dynamic braking can also be used, after ten seconds in idle.

On that curve in the movie approaching the crossing, the track is not super-elevated, so there is already enough pressure on the outside rail without adding the full weight of the train shifted over to it...even on a downhill grade in dynamic braking with a little air can flip that rail.

And why would anyone responsible for the lives of the people on that train even think about trying to stop in time for a car on a grade crossing? Train crews have a rule of thumb that "if you can see it, it's gone."

The railroad would clear any engineer who followed GCOR in any circumstance, but even if the train did not derail, would discipline the crew for not following company procedures.

It does not matter whether there is a car, school bus, cement mixer, load of logs, load of grain, if GCOR doesn't permit an emergency app, it's not done...I think that is the capital point of the movie, the audience is left to judge the engineer, the railroad approved his actions, a child is homeless...

This also applies for straight out ahead crossings, particularly if any part of the train is coming downhill.

Without getting into the derail or not debate, when the engineer applies the brakes he is letting air out of the brake pipe from the front, under normal applications this just causes a slight 'running in', to explain, the air pressure drops at the front first so those brakes apply before the rear brakes, causing a 'run in' of any slack, which can be a lot if the engine was under power before the application, when using 'emergency' the air is pressure is dumped very quickly, which means the brakes on the front are on hard before the rear brakes start to apply as the pressure at the rear has to wait for the pressure at the front to get out first, this can, and does, give the locomotive a big kick in the rear, the loco slows fast while the train slack is taken up, then the last few cars/wagons 'run into' the loco causing it to speed up a bit.
It is also this running into the loco which cause the most injuries among passengers.

Cheers David

Hollywood Dramatics

This is what happens when a passenger train goes into emergency braking...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyIW0r3-ruA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap4VIdTMDU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7Zd5Favzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TEkLZDElQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwvCwiThcFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWToJxKYRSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X764q33UUgQ

knowing what i know, i didn't care for this movie. may have been a good movie if the facts weren't completely wrong! but the human interactions were good i guess. b+ rating

cascaderailroad said:

This is what happens when a passenger train goes into emergency braking...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyIW0r3-ruA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dap4VIdTMDU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7Zd5Favzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2TEkLZDElQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwvCwiThcFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWToJxKYRSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X764q33UUgQ

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It might be appropriate to say that none of those videos took place on a curve. In fact, one was a demonstration, and the other was a (albeit humorous) stop-motion on a model layout

And I do feel sorry for the victims in those videos.

Truemac said:

It might be appropriate to say that none of those videos took place on a curve. In fact, one was a demonstration, and the other was a (albeit humorous) stop-motion on a model layout

And I do feel sorry for the victims in those videos.

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Yea that stop motion video was quite a riot! 5 minute pile up of crappy bachmann and lifelike cars

How about you find one real life documented story of a train derailing on a curve after putting the brakes into emergency

I watched part of the first video and saw some children playing on tracks. After the Amtrak train went into emergency braking, an confused old woman appeared. I hope that the children and their parents were punished severely. A few years ago, a man stopped his car on the tracks and waited for the train to kill him but he changed his mind and fled, leaving his car on the track and caused the train crash.

I think it was about 2 years ago we had some wreck less teenagers in Wheatridge throw a long on the BNSF mainline. The log was removed at least twice, but they finally "caught" a train, derailed 20 some cars, 3 locomotives, and totaled a 4th locomotive.

Klinger said:

Yea that stop motion video was quite a riot! 5 minute pile up of crappy bachmann and lifelike cars

How about you find one real life documented story of a train derailing on a curve after putting the brakes into emergency

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one,
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-132068020.html

and just for fun, two,
http://www.zazzle.com.au/railroad_derailment_photo_1_csx_train_k277_22_mousepad-144183446369477368

even more fun, three,
"Inspection of the site revealed that the south rail had rolled over for approximately 2600 feet, but was not broken. Spikes had been either pulled out or sheared off."
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2001/r01t0006/r01t0006.asp

and just to make us all ecstatic, four,
Derailment is not the only worry

from here http://bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2001/r01m0061/r01m0061.asp

I'll stop now as I cannot stand any more excitement

Cheers David