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Thread: TUME’s Simulation of “The Milwaukee Road”

  1. #1021

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    That's an amazing job you're doing and this brought back some memories.

    In July 2012, I traveled between Miles City and Roundup, Montana with a storm-chasing group. Parallel to the highway US 12 is the ROW of the former Pacific Northwest Extension. This end didn't have the catenary, but there were plenty of signs of old MILW railroad along the way.

    We headed west on US12 at Forsythe, MT after eating some lunch and getting some fuel. There we saw the competing former Great Northern line still in operation with some BNSF coal trains waiting in the yard there. What's interesting is, and this was one of the quirky things about the MILW, is there was no interchange with the Great Northern line there at all even though the MILW was across the river. They had a small depot, but bypassed this thriving community a bit too far away.

    Onward we traveled after going up hill and then on to the relatively flat upland area above the Yellowstone river. To the left was the ROW that paralleled the road for a good distance before dipping off away and returning sometime later. Still seen were big concrete bridges, telegraph poles - some still had insulators on them, some wooden bridges, and even some cattle stock pens where the railroad served these small hamlets and farmers. There's even a town that had a "modern" school building, but that was the only modern tall building the rest were small houses. After some research, I found this town grew up because of the railroad and when the line was abandoned, the town shrunk down.

    We traveled along through the plains. There were very few trees except right along the Yellowstone River and next to the tracks that moved away from the road, but came back again off and on. In some places out there, were former signal relay boxes and occasional signal masts. Then we came to a bigger town that had a substantial yard at Melstone.

    Anyway. I wish you well on your project and I look forward to seeing more of it as the route progresses. I would love to see modern trains, electric or diesel, plying the route once again. The MILW today could run some modern electrics, perhaps all the way from Miles City with both sections connected rather than separate. The alternative could be big Tier 4 diesels and maybe some GE Dash-somethings as well all painted in the famous black and orange we know the MILW for.
    Hello John,

    I read your write up with much interest here!

    A few thoughts........I forget your have Storm Chaser Friends, have watched some videos about them running after huge Tornado's and Lightning Storms, pretty amazing, to dangerous for me.........I'll watch from You Tube........

    Considering the recent largest merge in 25 yrs, I remember UP buyout of SP back then.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffnt&q=kcs...+merger&ia=web

    and

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/25/suez...tandstill.html

    and

    https://www.railwayage.com/freight/s...s-complicated/

    in which I am in Favor of for Tennessee for Grain Movement etc......I have seen a portion of this track in Montana.

    and

    your thoughts about the MILW

    "The MILW today could run some modern electrics, perhaps all the way from Miles City"

    with this one?

    https://www.ge.com/news/reports/lead...freight-trains

    coupled with the fact we as a world are looking at Electrical vs fossil fuel use to power Autos, Trucks and Trains?

    and

    Amtrak looking to expand it service area

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/06/u...expansion.html

    I would like with the fluidity of Problems, and Possibilities, we should look to revitalize some of these Routes, the Suez issues really brought to life how important it is too be able to get your Shipping containers where and when you need them to be. Right now the world has major problems at shipping ports with backlogged Ships, and from what Scuttlebutt I hear is this Log Jam will continue till July or later this year........Now one other thing that affects this Staffing due to COVID issues.

    Looking at the Railroad side of things, we can move a lot of Freight, but you need enough System, Tracks to push it through,,in reading your thoughts on Routes through Montana, and I would include Colorado too, I think we need more Tracks in the Network to handle the Voluminous loads of Intermodal between Shipping Ports......I would like to see MILW brought back and the Tennessee Route too.....I don't think we have the Capacity we need in our system for expansion of Trade and Commerce world wide......

    I am just of the hope we don't sit on our hands here, while we get further and further behind the 8 ball, with constant and unending delays for Freight shipment.......

  2. #1022
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    My storm-chasing friends do things the safe way and keep their distance. I traveled with a tour group and not one of the crazy ones either. This chaser has done this for well over 45 years and has written books about it, was on NATGEO, and other TV shows.

    The MILW fell apart due to poor management pure and simple. In the 1970s, they brought in a group to run the company that had one thing on their mind and that was to take as much cash out of the company and let it slide. They also did stupid things such as selling the electrics off along with the copper when the price of gas went up and copper went down. They also did a lease payback program on their equipment while in bankruptcy. This meant any profits made were sent back to the leasing company and this only worked on equipment that was running. There were a lot of old broken, undermaintained equipment that was falling apart, and that sat there rotting away instead of being repaired. Then there was the great accounting error that put the nail in the coffin in the early 1980s.

    Looking at this line now, I too see this as yet another freight corridor east and west. This corridor also served Seattle port which is one of the busiest on the west coast. With the wide, smooth, fast mainline, this would have meant easy transit for goods from the ports, but sadly none of this came to fruition.

    In regards to the electrics. Yes, that's what I was thinking about. The US government was willing to lend money to the MILW to rebuild their power system, replace/upgrade the catenary, and purchase new locomotives. The management instead ignored this and kept on their path of destruction.

    The Tennessee Pass, yes! There's a company interested in running the line, and there have been some upgrades too it from what I've seen. It'll be great seeing trains run the length again.

    The SP-DRGW merger was bad enough. That was a pure sellout to make big cash for the owner (can't remember his name), and then everything was sucked into the UPRR. Very sad and bad merger I think because there's little competition out there.

    And yes, Amtrak. They need to get a lot of lines back including a number back my way.

    But anyway... This project that TUME is doing is truly amazing and it brought back some memories for me when I saw it as well as that deep sadness I felt when I saw the empty ROW.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

  3. #1023
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    Default Thank you all!

    Hello, I am happily surprised to read all your big comments here!

    Really it is a very great compliment for me that I can awake peoples memories about the old days of the MILW and also to make people thinking of what could be the MILW today.

    Years ago a man wrote me as he saw Doris Substation in one of my videos at YouTube. And he told me that he grew up in one of the Substation houses as his father worked at the Doris Substation. He showed the video to his familie and as he wrote to me they must have had a great time of rememberence about that old times.

    Of course such feedback - as well as the feedback from you - pushes me forward to do the work - which is not always nice and easy ... but mostly :-)

    I whish I would make faster progress, but modelling and decoration of the route is a quite slow process. In addition to this I still need to create a lot of houses and structures (bridges and so on) to make it complete. All this needs a lot of time.

    Once if the route is finished, it is a good question how to put forward. Of course it would make sence to transfer the route into TS19 which requires new trecks and bridges supporting bpr textures. I already created the needed pbr gound textures.

    Eventually it would be great to extend that route to Harlowton as well as to the West Coast. As the old MILW mainline still exists between Milwaukee and Miles City, it would be great to have a virtual route covering the tracks which have been gone. This means a route from Miley City to the West Coast :-)

    Its well known, that I already did quite a lot at the Othello - Kittitas section. But a terrain only route would be required which matches exactly onto Avery, ID in the east and onto Warden, WA in the west. My concern is that this cannot be done. In this case all the work at the Othello - Kittitas section would be lost. In addition to this a terrain route would be required from Kittitas, WA to the West Coast.
    But may be the worst case will occur and the existing Othello - Kittitas section cannot be used than a terrain route would be needed going from Avery, ID to the West Coast all the way.

    To expand the route to Harlowton is probably a bit more easy. Of course an extension all the way to Miles City would be very great too.

    But in all cases I would need to create a lot of speciall buildings and structures like bridges, depot buildings, tunnel portals, grain elevaters, school buildings and other special and Landmark Buildings as several Court Houses and so on. And all this assets would need to maintain season change, as I want to support season change with my whole route - because I like it very much to see all that landscape and the trains with and without snow.

    One thing became cleare to me: To do route modeling and asset creation for any route extensions to Harlowton or Miles City in the east and/or to the West Coast is impossible - I just will not life long enough I guess.
    Fore any more route extensions of the Alberton - Avery route in the future I would need a collaboration with experienced content creators who could provide the needed special seasonal assets.



    Your's TUME


    PS:
    The next task will be the opposite slope which will also not be easy. Big, medium and small rocky cliffs are embedded in small areas of forest creating quite a challenge for the decoration.



    Last edited by tume; April 13th, 2021 at 10:27 PM.

  4. #1024
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    Hi Tume! That was me who's family lived in Doris, although I was too young to remember and have only pictures to go by. I am just happy to see that you are getting time to work on this route and post regular updates again, as each post is exciting to see. I would dearly love to see Othello-Kittitas updated, and on to Tacoma, with the tunnels and snowsheds, but realize you are only human like the rest of us and there is only so much time. I had dreams of maybe filling in Avery to Othello through the "channeled scablands" of Eastern Washington, as I think that would be quite dramatic, but in the time I have had T:ANE and now TRS2019 I have yet to complete anything meaningful. I can't even figure out how to download the topography from the USGS or other sites. I am now recently retired and had hoped to have more time, but it is amazing how many projects are suddenly around the house and property! Keep up the great work, and we will all be very grateful for your continuing contributions to the Milwaukee Road!

    We have booked Oberammergau for 2022, so are greatly looking forward to visiting Germany next spring!

    Best of luck, Joel
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  5. #1025
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    Default Progress Screens of Alberton - Avery route and one "special"

    Hello,
    again some progress screens of the MILW Alberton - Avery route.

    @Forester1: There is a screen below the MILW Alberton - Avery route screenshots - especially for you :-)















    @Forester1: I guess you will regognize the place :-)






    Your's TUME
    Last edited by tume; April 18th, 2021 at 08:04 PM.

  6. #1026
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    Ha! Thanks Tume, I love it! My brother and I are planning a hike up there this spring. For everyone else, google Doris, Washington in Google maps and change it to satellite view. You will see the concrete pad for the substation and the three house foundations now nearly buried in the desert sand along the old ROW. When I return from my travels I will have a new wallpaper for my computer!
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  7. #1027
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    Default Progress Screens of Alberton - Avery route

    Hello,
    some more progress screenshots from my Milwaukee Road Alberton - Avery route.












    Your's TUME

  8. #1028
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    Default One mile to Alberton ...

    The camera is viewing the west end of Alberton ... and the speedtrees in the background are about 1 mile away.




    Your's TUME

  9. #1029
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    Auran, SA, Adelaide
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    Great stuff.

  10. #1030
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    Wow! This is going to be great! I don't want to rush the process but I am wondering:
    - You said when tied to Avery-Drexel there would be a full day crew shift. Does that mean this will be added to that route, or offered separately? Or as a new, combined route?
    - If separately, would there be a method of merging them to get the continuous lines?
    - Do you plan to create sessions involving the entire distance and for both rail lines? And seasonal, similar to the current Avery-Drexel?
    Sorry for "jumping the gun", as they say, but curiosity has me wondering what the final vision for this will be. Whatever it is my wallet is creaking open and the moths are starting to fly!
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  11. #1031
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    cant wait to see the town!!!
    "The Dutch Line"

  12. #1032
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    Hello, again thanks for your compliments!

    The route Alberton - Avery will be a combined route and the former Avery Drexel route will be the western part of it. But you will not need to put the routes together this has already been done by me. The new combined route streches all the way from Schilling, MT (a little west of Missoula, MT) to Avery, ID.

    Yes I wll also create sessions - in both summer and snowy winter times. Of course the users will have to drive freights all the way from Alberton to Avery and in another session a freight from Avery to Alberton.

    There will be sessions for the NP tracks as well. But as the route misses the NP stations at Missoula and Paradise (because the route is focused onto the MILW) there will no big freights to be operated. But there are several sidings and connections from the NP line to saw mills, logging camps and silvermines near Cyr, MT, Superior, MT and Mullan, ID. Therefore I will create some sessions for NP train operations between these industries.

    At Schilling, MT was a big cellulose plant - now under demolition. Still I need to do investigations when this plant was built and how it was looking at the end of the 60s and at the beginning of the 70s. May be it is worth to be modelled in this route as well as it once used to be connected to the NP and to the MILW. This would create even more possibilities for sessions. But in the other hand, modelling this plant will need quite a lot extra time. However I have not made any decission about that so far.

    Your's TUME

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