DEM and me

Hello everyone,

I just got my copy of 2009!

Now that I have my first real copy of Trainz... I would like to start making a route of my local railroad, Michigan Shore Railroad. I want to include some abandon lines on this route as well... sadly, these lines are not bike trails... Soooo... I need to learn how to get, and use, a DEM.


Anyone want to help?

Does it cost money?


Just for those who are interested... the line used to be owned by C&O (Chessie System) that ran through my hometown of Whitehall (and Montague), Michigan. Now we have a bike trail. But most of the line is still used in Muskegon to Holland (where it merges with CSXT). I drive by the Muskegon Yard (it is small) every day. I Digress...


Okay, so below is the rail map. I am not sure what it would take to do the whole line... but I want a DEM made that includes from Hart, MI to Grand Haven, MI... This might have to be done in sections...


PLEASE HELP!


http://www.railamerica.com/ShippingServices/RailServices/MS.aspx

Hi crohakon and welcome to the forum....

For a DEM route you have basically two options

Freeware Hand of God - usually abbreviated to HOG. Produces a good route using free data and programs. Wewain has an excellent tutorial here which includes links to all required programs and data (all free). Two problems are that the tute was written for TRS04 and an older version of Microdem than is currently available. Some changes are intuitive, others are not, but the forum has lots of help.

Payware Geophil's excellent TransDEM utility, see this thread for details. Everything is bang up to date and help is available (almost) instantly from the writer himself.

Whichever way you choose to go, keep us in touch with progress...

Andy

For abandoned lines you can use the topographic maps from
http://libremap.org/data/
To view them in your browser you must install first the Alternatiff plug-in from
http://www.alternatiff.com/

Okay... so... my head hurts.

I was going along with the step by step directions on that site, and I got no where... The DEM file for Montague, MI (what I wanted) looked nothing like what it should have... It was not Montague.... The Tiger files were perfect for Muskegon County (what I wanted)... but I have no idea what I am doing and sadly... I must say... oh.. and the 100mb download limit on CM2? anyway... I must say... I think I give up...

I guess I will just make a fictional map and see how it turns out...

Another site with topo maps is
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/250k/
(search for Milwaukee)
For digital elevation models you can use the 7.5 min dems from
http://www.webgis.com/terr_pages/MI/dem75/muskegon.html
homonym with the topo maps from
http://www.mapcruzin.com/usgs-drg-topo-topographics-maps/usgs-drg-topographic-maps.htm
Another and more expensive solution, both for dems and topo maps, is to use the GlobalMapper software. For this you can follow the tutorial from
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=28387

Okay, so... the Milwaukee DEM map looks more like my coastline... but wtf? Milwaukee is across lake Michigan from us... This makes no sense to me..

Now, I know there is a GUI version of HOG... but for the life of me I cannot find where to get it. The download link in that tutorial above only had the dos version... and I searched that site for a gui version but I could not fine it...

So... TransDEM... is this easier to use? Less likely to make me want to slam my head against a wall? =)

I would be willing to pay for ease of use... but I don't want to buy something that is going to be just as frustrating as the free way.

Milwaukee is not a dem but a (not-georeferenced) topo map. You can find Muskegon in south-eastern part of the map, on the shore of the Michigan Lake.
At the bottom of this map you will find a diagram which shows the neighbourhood maps. Maybe some of them will be also useful for your route.
For dems, as I said, you can try at
http://www.webgis.com/terr_pages/MI/dem75/muskegon.html
With Microdem software you can combine more of them in a single digital elevation model.
With Transdem you can georectify the topo maps and overlay them upon a digital elevation model. You can find more informations about it in this forum.
But I think the best way for you is to use the tiger lines. You can download them from
http://arcdata.esri.com/data/tiger2000/tiger_download.cfm
Also you can combine more of them with Geomerge software (freeware). Maybe some of the actual roads were railroads in the past. The topo map, in this case, help you just to locate them.
For HOG try at:
http://trainz.luvr.net/sitesearch.php

DEMs

I am working on a PRR route from Altoona to Johnstown PA-The Horseshoe Curve. I like working with other peoples DEM's that they have created. I know little to nothing about creating my own DEM's from scratch. My route is extremely complex and is sprawling over a 50 scale mile grid of several hundered baseboards !!! Sometimes I wonder if recreating the PRR in each and every exact foot of detail and topography is worthwhile ? As it will eventually be SO large that uploading my completed route to DLS would be impossible because of its huge size. I have considered alternatives: Making a collage of modules, or dioramas, prototypypical scenes, all merging together so the topography is extremely condenced. Eliminating many miles of the actual lengthly route. Just as if you were making a HO route of the area. I would need a basement the size of a basketball court ! Perhaps you could recreate your RR with many, many joined scenes, or modular dioramas, just as if you were working in HO. As trying to re-create the entire State of Michigan in HO in your basement would be sizewise almost impossible. But by condencing the route into many, many small scenes...it could be very effective and believable. Don't get me wrong. DEM's are great ! And the people who created them are rocket scientists compared to me. I just want an accurate PRR route from Phila PA to Pittsburgh PA...now how am I going to do that ? Its 400 miles long, and driving it would take 8-10 hours in Trainz ! I think I'll condence my route, and enjoy running Trainz by making many, many prototypically correct scenes joined together. Just a thought, and an alternative to huge sprawling DEM's. Although...if someone would make an actual DEM all the way from Phila PA to Pittsburgh PA I would actually pay them ! Maybe MSTS new version will do this...when it comes out ???

crohakon said:

So... TransDEM... is this easier to use? Less likely to make me want to slam my head against a wall? =)

Click to expand...

TransDEM users should comment on the ease of use.

I have never completed a MicroDEM/HOG process myself, so I can't really compare. I always thought there were too many manual steps involved bearing too high a risk of mistakes, but that's my personal opinion. As a software developer you tend to write some code instead to automate things and thus reducing the risk.

Nevertheless, geo-data processing remains to be somewhat complex. It will certainly help if you have a basic understanding of cartographic maps, the curved nature of the Earth's surface and of latitude and longitude. A lot of math will be applied in the process, but fortunately all the number crunching is performed internally by TransDEM.

Dear cascaderailroad,
You can also try the 1/2 scale, by resizing the dem map for HOG at 50% and by reducing the elevation at 1/2 from the real one. Sure, in this way, the terracing of the terrain is not eliminated. Unfortunately, the Transdem not works at this scale. But it would be a good idea for a future update of this software. What do you think Geophil, is this possible?

Speaking as a fan of DEM...

...for about four years, I recommend TransDEM

You can make routes any length you wish although I recommend up to about 30 miles.

You can add extensions onto the map by making them in TransDEM then merging them in Surveyor.

TransDEM has an export function called TranzDEM for Trainz. This exporter creates the DEM map with TOPO overlays then you can create (UTM) tiles the same size of the baseboards for laying under the map with the topo map on them to detail the map.

You can import splines with the maps for rail lines or whatever is offered as a spline in Trainz.

TransDEM is payware for less than the price of Trainz however it was my first Global purchase in Euros & payable through PayPal.

I has been well worth the purchase for creating accurate maps of the United States of America, is very friendly & has a complete users manual .pdf printable.

It is a stand alone program that references outside resources on it's own & has it's own textures for viewing in Surveyor.

Talk about "Animated Process!"

Hi
To add to Backyard's comments.
I have also used Transdem for quite a while. Its low purchase price is well worth the time saved in creating actual landscapes from anywhere in the world.
A project I'm currently working on, with two other Trainzers, would have taken me a year just to place the terrain. we are now laying tracks Etc.
It is so easy to use, that after a while, it becomes automatic.
I would look up the various threads about it to form your own opinion, any initial help you may require is probably already on this Forum, but if you come across a particular item, you can always get help from Geophil or any other users of the program.
As its now 01:57 New Years Eve, may I wish you and everyone on this thread 'A very Happy and Prosperous New Year'
Cheers
Pete.

I have been sold...

Upon the arrival of my next pay check I will be purchasing TransDEM.

TransDEM the way to go. I only purchased it late last year and managed to construct about 100Kms of landscape and track using Google Earth. May take a while to detail fully.




Regards David

matches said:

TransDEM the way to go. I only purchased it late last year and managed to construct about 100Kms of landscape and track using Google Earth. May take a while to detail fully.




Regards David

Click to expand...

Hi David,
Here's a little tip to help you with the detail: I used the 'Custom Pallet' using colors from Google Earth itself. I found that the 'Touching Up' required is greatly reduced, although it don't completely solve the problem, it certainly helps a little. To get the RGB, figures correct, I simply transferred several screenshots from Google Earth into 'Photoshop', making a note of the numbers.
Cheers
Pete.

There is a really neat little utility called Pixie available free here which will give the RGB (and CMYK) value of a colour from any image either on-line or local. Deffinitely worth having....

Andy

Dermmy said:

There is a really neat little utility called Pixie available free here which will give the RGB (and CMYK) value of a colour from any image either on-line or local. Deffinitely worth having....

Andy

Click to expand...

Hi Andy,
Thanks for the Info'. Snipped and added to my bookmark.
Thanks again
Pete. EDIT::::: Just tried it out; excellent. Thanks Again.

...a raster question

One thing I'm not clear on regarding TransDEM - it's sounds like you import the DEM data and overlay that with a raster, like a topo. Does the user then have to "draw" the route manually?

G'day Zikchil,

If you utilise the TranzDEM (note the spelling) utility in TransDEM, you can have the program lay the track for you according to the 'route polylines' you have created in the program (in fact, TranzDEM will lay any spline on the polylines you have created) but the rest of the work must progress in the identical manner to any other 'route' - in short, manually...

Jerker {}