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Thread: UK Screenshots for Pre BR Blue. High resolution warning.

  1. #3781
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    Hello tanker. There were meetings between the SR and LNER on a daily basis through goods wagons, whether in the common user pool or not. The wagons not in the common user pool would be loaded in the LNER or SR and sent to the customer in the SR or LNER for unloading. Under typical NER/LNER rules one consignee putting 2 Tons of traffic for one single customer at one site could be provided with one wagon with which to carry that traffic. Once emptied it was meant to be returned to the point of origin as quickly as practiable. This was supposed to prevent the "evil" of transhipment, which was the main reason for the abandonment of broad gauge. Of course, transhipment took place on a daily basis at hundreds of sites across all the main line railway companies because a significant fraction of general goods traffic was in consignments of less than 2 tons to one customer at one site or to be distributed to multiple sites of that customer. Peter Tatlow was motivated to research his books because as a child in WWII he wondered why his LMS locality seemed to have so many LNER wagons. Even the typical GWR country branch would not have been served exclusively by GWR wagons. Some of Tatlow's shots of former NER wagons are actually taken during the mid-1920s at Barmouth GWR!

    Most carriages on a post-grouping railway are of that company, with a small fraction of through carriages or through trains from other companies, but wagons came from almost anywhere. FYI - the LMS was No.1 for cattle wagons with the GWR No.2 The LNER was No.3 and the SR No.4 but both the SR and LNER together did not outrank the GWR. Steve Banks says that race traffic is an underestimated traffic, with significant numbers of racehorses being moved about the country as well as racing excursions to places such as Doncaster, Cheletenham, Aintree and Ascot as well as lesser courses at Wetherby, Newcastle, Lincoln, Chester and York.

  2. #3782
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    I see! That's something I didn't realize about Post Grouping Goods Traffic! It makes sense though. I remember seeing a photograph of a Maunsell Q Class hauling a long train of Blue Spot Fish Vans so it's safe to say this practice survived all the way to BR service as well! Thanks for the info Frank!

    So there were no stations or junctions that the LNER and SR met I presume? I love the idea of places like Oxford, Skipton and Exeter St Davids because of the variety of different engines coming and going is really appealing!
    Tanker46

    Member of TCWW - Developer of the Brighton Project

  3. #3783
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    #3780. Your project is coming along nicely lewisner.

    #3777. I always enjoy seeing the wagons and vans I create on layouts other than my own Ken. I remember when i was starting out with all this you put together a scene with a gathering of hopeful cats and one of my GCR fish vans which certainly helped to encourage me to keep on making goods wagons.
    The Ale Truck certainly was one of the more demanding ones that I've done, but I'm glad I stuck with it and finished it. The next tricky one I've made a start on is a GER prize cattle van. Not as interesting perhaps as an ale van, but still a good subject for a model.

    #3779. Tanker I'm fairly sure that there were places where the pre-grouping southern lines and the GER and M&GNJR met up, but I really don't know enough to give you a definitive answer.

    This is an early 1950s pre-Beeching railway map of East Anglia if it's any help to you.

    Last edited by KotangaGirl; April 6th, 2021 at 01:36 PM. Reason: more information
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  4. #3784
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    Hello Tanker,

    On completion of its london Extension, the GCR went in to overdrive marketing cross country services to the G.W.R. and L.S.W.R. via its route to Banbury, where traction was switched. If I recall it correctly there was a daily train between Bournemouth and Newcastle via Reading, Didcot, Oxford, Banbury, Leicester, Nottingham Vic, Sheffield Vic and York, though in pre-grouping days one set was provided by the G.C.R. and another by the G.W.R. The G.W.R. provided the restaurant car service, which only ran between Oxford and Newcastle. The L.S.W.R. probably hauled the train as far as Reading, with the G.W.R. hauling the train as far as Banbury. the G.C.R. hauled the train to York and there the N.E.R. took over.

    In post-grouping days the Southern area GC Section provided the L.N.E.R. carriages until around 1927, when the NE Area took over responsibility for supplying the carriages. Former GC types probably remained the stock provided until the early 1930s, when new Gresley carriages arrived (or possibly new Gresley carraiges arrived on East Coast Main Line services and Gresley carriages built in the early/mid-1920s were cascaded to the NE Area for cross-country use). In those days the SR hauled the train as far as Reading, the GWR between Reading and Banbury and then the LNER between Banbury and Newcastle (S Area GC section locos as far as York and NE Area locos onwards from York).

    There was also the "Ports and Ports" G.C.R.-G.W.R. cross country service between Newcastle, Hull, Cardiff, Barry and Swansea. The main core started at Newcastle, picking up through carriages from Hull at Doncaster, with the changeover between the G.C.R. and G.W.R. at Banbury. One set was provided by the G.C.R. and one by the G.W.R. and included a dining car set from each company. The G.C.R set and the later L.N.E.R. one were always a better quality than the one provided by the G.W.R. which always treated the train as a secondary passenger service, both in the rolling stock for it and the routing it was given onwards from Banbury.

    If I have it right the Newcastle - Bournemouth service in BR days did become a NE Region-S Region joint operation as far as stock was concerned but there was always the W Region haulage between Reading and Banbury.

  5. #3785
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    re posts #3778 borderreiver, Tanker46 #3779 and KotangaGirl #3783
    Thanks all for the compliments.

    The following will be of interest,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_London_line

    https://sremg.org.uk/headcodes/sheadcodes/02.html look for LBSCR headcodes 67 & 68

    Neasden 14D (ex GCR) locoshed on Cup Final day (football and or rugby or other sporting event) could well produce special train locos from the LMR, ER, WR and SR all being serviced together whilst the match at Wembley Stadium was on. Dependant on what teams were playing the event could produce rarely seen locos in that part of London plus the passenger rolling stock.

    Cheers, Ken

  6. #3786
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    The Bournemouth services via Basingstoke and Reading were hauled by Southern region locos and changed at Oxford. Reading was avoided by taking the west curve at Reading West. Freight usually terminated at Reading or Moreton Cutting, near Didcot. I think that in the last days of steam, after the Western region had ceased steam operation in the area, the loco changes must have been made further North as I've seen a couple of photos of them being worked by Birmingham Granges.

    Chris.

  7. #3787

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  8. #3788
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    Loving the Sage Green! Excellent screenshot!!
    Tanker46

    Member of TCWW - Developer of the Brighton Project

  9. #3789
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    Although my Leamside Line is set in a theoretical 1961 I like my signalboxes so last night I discovered Shincliffe South box on a map and decided I had to have it even though it was long gone by 1961. Here is 63387 passing it heading north with a coal train.

    63387 at Shincliffe South 7.4.2021 by A1 Northeastern, on Flickr
    MSI Gaming 9 ACK mobo-Intel i7 5960X-Samsung 970 Evo Pro 240GB M2 SSD-Nvidia RTX 2070 GPU-32GB G.Skill Ripjaws 2133Mhz DDR4 RAM

  10. #3790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanker46 View Post
    Welcome back Parker!

    I'm glad to see you frequenting the forums again! Just in time too! In a few weeks I will have a special surprise for your Swanage Route!
    Hi Tanker,

    Sounds interesting - I can't wait to see what that might be? Any hints?

    Cheers,

    PLP
    Building the Swanage Railway for TRS19.

  11. #3791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanker46 View Post
    That makes me wonder... Were there any places in Southern UK where the LNER and SR met? I know the GWR and LMS crisscrossed with the SR at Oxford and several other places, but I don't think I have ever seen a place where the Eastern and Southern Giants met!
    Other than Oxford, the only other possibilities where the LNER and SR met would be in London. As has already been mentioned, the East London Line was a definite, and I'd imagine right round the North London Line and down the West London Line to Kensington Olympia/Addison Road did as well.

    Also, don't forget through the Widened Lines down to Blackfriers....I'm pretty certain that did as well.

    But outside of London, the only place where I think the Big Four all met was Oxford....can't think of anywhere else.

  12. #3792
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    There were some King Arthurs loaned to the LNER North Eastern region during the WW2, and I seem to recall there were some SR loco appearances in the Cambridge/Peterbrough area at one time but I'm a bit sketchy on the details. Some of the inter-regional trains used SR and LNER stock, which could then be seen on the destination region. York - Bournemouth for instance. And several B1s were loaned to the BR(S) in 1953 for a couple of months, working the Victoria to Kent coast passenger trains.
    My work in progress route -
    Chinley and Peak Forest Railway

  13. #3793
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    In 1951 or 2 the SR lent the ER two BB locos for use in Anglia area & I saw 34065 pass through Colchester while on holiday in the area. I also recollect the B1 s loaned to SR on e being Edinburgh allocated.
    The following B1'swere on loan to SR June 1953 to cover for temp withdrawn Bulleid pacific's
    61015 50A 61133 65A 61273 51A 61274 51A 61338 50A 61354 64A
    50A York 51A Darlington 64A St Margaret's Edinburgh 65A Eastfield Glasgow
    Also two Brittania's on loan 70030 & 70034 from 9A Longsight














    m
    Last edited by tailight98; April 9th, 2021 at 03:47 AM.

  14. #3794
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    On-going motor train/push-pull testing on the pocket edition of my Norfolk layout. (TS2012)





    Last edited by KotangaGirl; April 9th, 2021 at 02:33 AM. Reason: formatting
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  15. #3795
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    D16/3 62517

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