is there a more unreiiable game than trainz?

Just updating a route in 2019 sp4. added four industries .
on checking today, out of four industries, in THREE of them ALL of the main buildings and track have vanished, but the textures and some other items are still there, I've had this happen before repeatedly despite following all saving protocols and applying unsaved edits on opening the route, ( even though I'd saved the route constantly and repeatedly and there should NOT be an un-applied edits TO apply) .I am not running out of disk space, 50 gbs spare on the computer. route had saved and was not open for edit .

Something is off on saving , and yes I've rebuilt the database and extended database , it makes no difference and the work isn't saved as part of a session . Ive checked.

This is particularly annoying though as its seemingly randomly saving textures and removing other items.

This has to be the most unreliable and infuriating software ever created. And before anyone offers solutions, the work is not saved to session or to other layers, its just an extremely annoying bug that might not occur in sp5, but then again it might . its not occurred for several months although saving has always been utterly unreliable in this version , but its come back with a vengeance on this route. Then there's the matter of glitches when other try to use the routes, despite me double checking and driving one section, when its sent to another person a switch is missing and he cant drive that section, this has occurred in two routes hes trying to make sessions for, yet they are fine for me.

I just know some users will come along and tell me that they have no issues with this software, so please don't bother to do so , I just need to vent before I go back to repairing the lost work that's going to occur until I move to 2022 where I no doubt will find another load of issues ... just different ones to what I have now. Just to prove my point, went back in, laid some track , saved, went to close the route, i get the 'do you wish to to save your changes before closing surveyor" window, when I've already saved the changes, this happens ALL THE TIME . I save again every time this occurs and most of the time, it fixes the issue and I don't lose work but its MADDENING !

If you're able to repeat the steps to recreate the same problem, we can fix it. There will be a pattern somewhere - finding what you're doing differently is what we need to know.

You mention "applying unsaved edits on opening the route". This option usually only appears if the game has crashed, in which case, loss of data is possible.

If it hasn't crashed, then I'd be looking at whether you're sharing the same local data folder between different builds, or making some sort of manual edit to files.

Other options might include disabled assets, asset authorisation expiring (e.g. ending a membership).

I would also suggest using Save As to make backup copies at various stages.

Tony_Hilliam said:

If you're able to repeat the steps to recreate the same problem, we can fix it. There will be a pattern somewhere - finding what you're doing differently is what we need to know.

You mention "applying unsaved edits on opening the route". This option usually only appears if the game has crashed, in which case, loss of data is possible.

If it hasn't crashed, then I'd be looking at whether you're sharing the same local data folder between different builds, or making some sort of manual edit to files.

Other options might include disabled assets, asset authorisation expiring (e.g. ending a membership).

I would also suggest using Save As to make backup copies at various stages.

Click to expand...

Nope, no shared directory, the game hasn't crashed, its always done this since i installed it on my PC. I save, when I go to leave the game it tells me Ihave unsaved edits, i save, most of the time it doesn't lose work, but occasionally it does. But even then , when i go back to the route and open it to work on, I am faced with the option to save un-submitted edits, even though none occurred.

This never occurred on SP1 but you wouldn't support my build so I was forced to move to SP4 after the environmental tools on sp1 went haywire, reinstalling made no difference, I can use it but all lighting, environmental items have gone haywire .

I make a lot of my own items but what do you mean by " making some sort of manual edit to files."

I never touch the database, and the database is on c drive in the usual place, there is ample free space on the drive .

I've never disabled any assets and I am using the basic install , no membership.
I also use " save as" all the time and make multiple back up copies , it makes no difference, it might behave itself for a few weeks then I lose work again. Saving to cdp doesn't help, if the work disappears during the save process its not on there when I go to the cdp.

For some reason the app isnt saving correctly ,as it still thinks I've not saved edits when I open the route, or when I go to close the route even though I have saved repeatedly and religiously follow the procedure of saving and then exiting surveyor ( it seems to help preserve edits, though not always, it may just be my imagination ).

Also, how do you explain that some work is present, and other items have disappeared ? , the missing work often isn't related to the last actions I made, the fence I used to the oil refinery was still there, but the refinery wasn't , terrain changes made after I laid track are there, but the track is gone? I've been saving as i work, the items are there to work on after saving , but on reopening, some of them are gone ( track, buildings and objects disappear, but textures and height changes are intact) .

dangavel said:

I just know some users will come along and tell me that they have no issues with this software, so please don't bother to do so , I just need to vent

Click to expand...

The impression that statement gives me is that you only want to hear opinions that agree with yours. In short you want an echo chamber, not an exchange of ideas, information or possible solutions. I would point out that users who do not have any problems may provide an insight as to what is different between their install and yours.

I can understand your frustration. I experienced much the same when beta testing some of the earlier T:ANE versions but by locking out other voices you are cutting off that channel of communication and possible ideas for a solution.

Just saying.

Think I might have had this issue in 19 as well, though in my case it was track splines not appearing on reload. This used to be an issue if you had daily backups set to 7 in options as it gobbled up your HD space leaving little room for virtual memory or the swap file. However both HD’s on my laptop have several Gb of spare space so can probably rule that one out (though worth checking and drop the number of backups to 1 in order to prevent future issues).

pware said:

The impression that statement gives me is that you only want to hear opinions that agree with yours. In short you want an echo chamber, not an exchange of ideas, information or possible solutions. I would point out that users who do not have any problems may provide an insight as to what is different between their install and yours.

I can understand your frustration. I experienced much the same when beta testing some of the earlier T:ANE versions but by locking out other voices you are cutting off that channel of communication and possible ideas for a solution.

Just saying.

Click to expand...

Peter, I've raised this issue before as its been ongoing for many months and no one came came up with any solutions, other than all the obvious mistakes that people make when they don't know the apps obvious foibles and which I've mentioned anyway., which I know are not responsible for this issue. I simply stated that to avoid people saying ' have you saved it to the session layer , etc. "

Do you have any suggestions to make , other than the obvious ones which have already been tried and failed. ?

I'm not " locking out other voices " I'm trying to avoid repetition of the solutions that have been raised as far as they do not solve the problem , when something is intermittent , then often its very hard to trace the cause. . Intermittent disappearing work in 2019 isn't a problem that only I am experiencing and so far I've yet to see the issue being solved for anyone on the forum .

I think its just something I have to grit my teeth over until I move on to 2022 as 2019 has other bugs that I'm getting increasingly fed up with. I've not moved on as Pitkin has experienced issues in making sessions for me using 2022, and i am not all that happy to lock myself into build 5.

Pitkin may have now overcome the teething problems and thus I might get out of this current saving mess by upgrading, or not, my feeling is I'll just exchange one set of issues for another. I have 2022 installed and may bring a test route over into that to see what happens. But not holding my breath over it being any more reliable.

Vern said:

Think I might have had this issue in 19 as well, though in my case it was track splines not appearing on reload. This used to be an issue if you had daily backups set to 7 in options as it gobbled up your HD space leaving little room for virtual memory or the swap file. However both HD’s on my laptop have several Gb of spare space so can probably rule that one out (though worth checking and drop the number of backups to 1 in order to prevent future issues).

Click to expand...

I've got 50gb spare, so its not drive space. Ive been through all the obvious issues, its happened before, but not quite as badly as this particular episode.

I think its just something I have to grit my teeth over until I move on to 2022 as 2019 has other bugs that I'm getting increasingly fed up with.

Click to expand...

Been using 22 for just under a week now and not had any save issues (yet).

However as I've noted in other threads, despite no actual visible difference or improvement in appearance, it's pushing the hardware much harder. And this is on a 18' x 12' or thereabouts model railway.

it happened yet again

this time it took a long time to save , yet I'd hardly done much work.placed two mine buildings a few other bits and pieces, the save preserved track and terrain changes, but the mine buildings ,trees and vegetation once again vanished into thin air, I also saved another version and the work was missing from both . yet the new work was there after the first save , at least on screen.
looks like i have no choice but to move up to 2022. I dont want to over write my 2019 install in case sp5 is even worse. i suppose i could install it on yet another drive, , this is getting ridiculous. I have a 1660t1 6gtb card on my laptop, do you think it will stand the load? I've got highly detailed routes in play.

@dangavel I've not moved on as Pitkin has experienced issues in making sessions for me using 2022, and i am not all that happy to lock myself into build 5.

I had many issues with 19SP5 with the sessions for dangavel's Uintah RR. So I went back to 19SP1. I have not done much work in 22. I have archived or deleted all TRS19 installs except SP1.

To answer your question, yes there is a more unreliable game than Trainz....
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - it has been out for three years and is still very buggy.

In comparison, Trainz is quite stable. The biggest issues are usually missing, unknown or faulty assets.

Just my .02 worth

Fred Bray

@Dangavel, do you think it could be a driver issue, similar to this thread? https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?156011-Disappearing-splines or are the assets clearly not even getting saved? The thread deals with spline, which wouldn't explain buildings disappearing, I guess.

Exclude your Trainz data folder and program from the antivirus. That can prevent your program from saving properly.

A more unreliable game than Trainz?

Cities Skylines. A simple program update and it breaks the add-ons and mods causing old saves to be totally trashed with no return.

JCitron said:

Exclude your Trainz data folder and program from the antivirus. That can prevent your program from saving .

Click to expand...

I use windows defender , what would be a reason why it would affect saving some items and not others ? .why does it only occur occasionally ?
I suppose I could load the route up in 2022 and see if the same thing occurs. Beggars can't be choosers.

dangavel said:

I use windows defender , what would be a reason why it would affect saving some items and not others ? .why does it only occur occasionally ?
I suppose I could load the route up in 2022 and see if the same thing occurs. Beggars can't be choosers.

Click to expand...

Why?

Trainz opens all kinds of files with different extensions and what not. Defender is extremely aggressive in its scanning and goes after every file that's opened. This can cause poor performance for one and also cause Trainz to have fits.

Try the route in TRS22. I found I had to do the same with that version as well.

The other thing that could happen is the disks aren't feeding fast enough for your route. SSDs help as does a decent CPU.

Cheerio John

johnwhelan said:

The other thing that could happen is the disks aren't feeding fast enough for your route. SSDs help as does a decent CPU.

Cheerio John

Click to expand...

i have an acer nitro AN515-54 laptop.
17-9750h cpu 2.60 ghz
16gb ram
500 gb ssd ,
59 gb are free,
its got a Nvidea 1660t1 card with 6gb vram

SSD is very fast, should be sufficient for what I am doing. never had any stuttering unless driving on ultra settings. Today I did another extended database repair, but even after that, I have noticed on startup of trainz 2019 , when I go into surveyor a white transparent circle is constantly rotating in the centre of the screen , in front of the " Select " window , this would indicate to me some aspect of the program is not functioning correctly, processes unfulfilled in some way ? . This is before I actually open any routes, or use any content .This isn't present when I'm opening 2022 , which I'm just testing to see how a payware route will perform on high settings. driving west to denver,even with the database install on an external drive which not fast, no issues with performance at high settings with draw distance 12.500 ft and session saved and opened very quickly.
looks like its some issue with 2019 not the computer specifications.

JCitron said:

Why?

Trainz opens all kinds of files with different extensions and what not. Defender is extremely aggressive in its scanning and goes after every file that's opened. This can cause poor performance for one and also cause Trainz to have fits.

Try the route in TRS22. I found I had to do the same with that version as well.

Click to expand...

I took your advice and excluded both the 2019 game folder and the database to exclude scanning of 2019, no difference,as I still have the rotating circle in surveyor;-see below.

The problem is I have many new assets for the Alpine tunnel route that I've yet to upload to DLS as I may not use all of them, would have to transfer a LOT of stuff as cdps over to 2022 . Also 99% of the time this hasn't been an issue when defender has been used, why would it only occasionally have this problem, I'd expect it to be fairly constant , this problem appears and goes although the part few days its being a persistent issue.

Today I did another extended database repair, but even after that, I have noticed on startup of trainz 2019 , when I go into surveyor a white transparent circle is constantly rotating in the centre of the screen , in front of the " Select " window , this would indicate to me some aspect of the program is not functioning correctly, processes unfulfilled in some way ? .

This is not occurring in 2022, if it was the root cause then I'd expect it to occur in both versions, 2022 seems not to have saving issues .

This is before I actually open any routes, or use any content .This isn't present when I'm opening 2022 , which I'm just testing to see how a payware route will perform on high settings. Driving west to denver,even with the database install on an external drive which not fast, no issues with performance at high settings with draw distance 12.500 ft and session saved and opened very quickly.

"Is there a more unreliable game than Trainz?"

I don't know about unreliable, but I know of no games with a steeper Learning Curve.

Just thinking out loud here. Glance st the route cdp to see if any of the files in there are not updated after a bad save. I think the excludes recommended earlier would be a wise choice (if defender has them, I disable defender in my systems).