I notice that these items are now available to those trainz plus standard subscribers. It is quite the marketing move, after how many years, for N3V to treat those of us who would rather "own" the products that we pay for, with such contempt. I notice it is only a few select items in Trainz store, that are treated in such a manner. Obviously N3V likes to dangle said items because they suspect that there are many who would succumb to the marketing. I will never pay rental. I am not having a go at those of you who do, your pockets are deeper than mine, I am having a go at N3V. Their claim that items in trainz plus categories will eventually be available to those of us who wish to own rather than rent. "Eventually" is the word to observe. One month, six months, a year two or three years? I understand that the subscription rental model helps in their efforts to stay afloat, but their efforts can be construed to resemble a company wishing to squeeze the blood out of any customers who would be willing to rent products that may be a winner financially. Greed or the basis for a successful business?
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- Thread starter bolivar
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Bolivar, no-one is being forced to get the subscription.
If you don't like the subscription or "rental" system (and I do not criticise anyone for that) then N3V still offers the alternative of outright purchase.
I am a subscription member of 3 different social clubs (i.e. licensed alcohol and, for 2 of them, gambling establishments). The subscription offers me advantages such as reductions on their restaurant and bar prices, lower fitness club fees, free offers on other services and facilities, etc. Anyone who is not a member can still enter all of these clubs and use all the facilities but they pay full prices.
I am also a Gold Subscription holder. I must admit that I get more use of my Trainz subscription than I get out of my membership of those 3 clubs (but the meals are better at the clubs).
I joined the Trainz Plus subscription because I wanted to use the additional features it offered. I joined Gold class because I wanted to support N3V - not because I wanted any of the free DLC extras that come with it. That was my choice and I am able to afford it.
N3V is a business, not a charity. They are operating in a very small niche market area - railway simulators.
Tony has stated on several occasions (but you must have missed those posts) that, because of the number of users taking up subscriptions, N3V have been able to employ more programmers. Is there a problem with that that we are not aware of?
In one of his latest posts on that matter I seem to recall him stating that the subscriptions have proven to be a popular choice (or words to that effect). But even if you don't believe him then look at the timelines of the users making forum posts. I have noticed over the past year that there is a significant and growing number of posters who now have Trainz+ in their timelines. The marketplace (Trainz users) are clearly voting for the subscription model.
My thoughts.
If you don't like the subscription or "rental" system (and I do not criticise anyone for that) then N3V still offers the alternative of outright purchase.
I am a subscription member of 3 different social clubs (i.e. licensed alcohol and, for 2 of them, gambling establishments). The subscription offers me advantages such as reductions on their restaurant and bar prices, lower fitness club fees, free offers on other services and facilities, etc. Anyone who is not a member can still enter all of these clubs and use all the facilities but they pay full prices.
I am also a Gold Subscription holder. I must admit that I get more use of my Trainz subscription than I get out of my membership of those 3 clubs (but the meals are better at the clubs).
I joined the Trainz Plus subscription because I wanted to use the additional features it offered. I joined Gold class because I wanted to support N3V - not because I wanted any of the free DLC extras that come with it. That was my choice and I am able to afford it.
N3V is a business, not a charity. They are operating in a very small niche market area - railway simulators.
Tony has stated on several occasions (but you must have missed those posts) that, because of the number of users taking up subscriptions, N3V have been able to employ more programmers. Is there a problem with that that we are not aware of?
In one of his latest posts on that matter I seem to recall him stating that the subscriptions have proven to be a popular choice (or words to that effect). But even if you don't believe him then look at the timelines of the users making forum posts. I have noticed over the past year that there is a significant and growing number of posters who now have Trainz+ in their timelines. The marketplace (Trainz users) are clearly voting for the subscription model.
My thoughts.
The point of the 'exclusive' items is a way to say Thank You for being a subscriber and helping to ensure a brighter future for all Trainz users. Improvements to the game cost a lot of money to produce and you can choose to get the benefits of that now, or some time down the track. Increased cash flow certainly seems to have helped get more improvements into our hands faster.
@pware and grazlash, did you two bother to READ what I posted? This:"I understand that the subscription rental model helps in their efforts to stay afloat"? I do not have a problem with the subscription or rental business model.
I realise the point about subscriptions, yes if you have money go for it, I do not have a problem with that. What I am complaining about is N3V stating that content will be available to those of us who want to own our purchases, eventually. Then N3V holds onto said items in perpetuity, it seems, in the never never land of subscriptia! Eventually made available...when?... one month, two? A year, two or six years?
"I understand that the subscription rental model helps in their efforts to stay afloat, but their efforts can be construed to resemble a company wishing to squeeze the blood out of any customers who would be willing to rent products that may be a winner financially.
Greed or the basis for a successful business?"
I repeat, please comment on what I posted, rather than go off on a tangent. Sheesh!
I realise the point about subscriptions, yes if you have money go for it, I do not have a problem with that. What I am complaining about is N3V stating that content will be available to those of us who want to own our purchases, eventually. Then N3V holds onto said items in perpetuity, it seems, in the never never land of subscriptia! Eventually made available...when?... one month, two? A year, two or six years?
"I understand that the subscription rental model helps in their efforts to stay afloat, but their efforts can be construed to resemble a company wishing to squeeze the blood out of any customers who would be willing to rent products that may be a winner financially.
Greed or the basis for a successful business?"
I repeat, please comment on what I posted, rather than go off on a tangent. Sheesh!
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If N3V offers new content exclusively to subscription only members then I am in favour of it. It would be a good move and a sound business decision as far as I am concerned. The more the better.
I am sorry that you have confused the offer of more features and content for those who are prepared (and willing) to pay so that N3V can continue development of a product, or even to survive as a company, with "squeezing the blood out of customers" or that it comes down to a choice between "greed" and the "basis for a successful business".
This is the real world. To me your complaint seems trivial.
My opinions.
EDIT: OpenBVE is a free Train Simulator. In the description for their latest update they have added a new experimental feature where you can drive a route in the opposite direction.
I am sorry that you have confused the offer of more features and content for those who are prepared (and willing) to pay so that N3V can continue development of a product, or even to survive as a company, with "squeezing the blood out of customers" or that it comes down to a choice between "greed" and the "basis for a successful business".
This is the real world. To me your complaint seems trivial.
My opinions.
EDIT: OpenBVE is a free Train Simulator. In the description for their latest update they have added a new experimental feature where you can drive a route in the opposite direction.
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Yes, I did read what you wrote and I still contend that you DO have a problem with the subscription model regarding exclusive content. I'm very happy that N3V have provided subscribers with exclusive content as a reward and I would expect that these items are exclusive for a considerable period of time, possibly 6 to 12 months or longer. Perhaps they will turn them over and provide other exclusive content at some stage.
cheers
Graeme
cheers
Graeme
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
Even if you buy something outright. You still do not own it and i think you will find most pc software is the same.
Mike.
Mike.
@pware, Open BVE? Yes I am well aware of that program and Dovetail and other programs, including MSTS. So please don't go there. If you wish to comment, Please address my original post.
"I am sorry that you have confused the offer of more features and content for those who are prepared (and willing) to pay so that N3V can continue development of a product, or even to survive as a company, with "squeezing the blood out of customers" or that it comes down to a choice between "greed" and the "basis for a successful business". LOL. You are not sorry one bit. This is a commercial decision that N3V has in place and you support it 100%. Your view has been noted,though so thank you for your input.
@grazlash. Yes you have read the original post. I disagree with your opinion, I do not have a problem with subscription method. I would possibly subscribe if I had money to burn, but again, that is not my gripe. At least you have addressed my main issue, though, so thanks for understanding what I am talking about and commenting on that issue. Regards.
@IsambardKingdomBrunel..you have confused software programs with purchased CDP items off of the trainz store. Comparing chalk and cheese. LOL. Cheerio.
"I am sorry that you have confused the offer of more features and content for those who are prepared (and willing) to pay so that N3V can continue development of a product, or even to survive as a company, with "squeezing the blood out of customers" or that it comes down to a choice between "greed" and the "basis for a successful business". LOL. You are not sorry one bit. This is a commercial decision that N3V has in place and you support it 100%. Your view has been noted,though so thank you for your input.
@grazlash. Yes you have read the original post. I disagree with your opinion, I do not have a problem with subscription method. I would possibly subscribe if I had money to burn, but again, that is not my gripe. At least you have addressed my main issue, though, so thanks for understanding what I am talking about and commenting on that issue. Regards.
@IsambardKingdomBrunel..you have confused software programs with purchased CDP items off of the trainz store. Comparing chalk and cheese. LOL. Cheerio.
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Freeware and open source software are the only exceptions that I can think of.
@pware...
"Freeware and open source software are the only exceptions that I can think of."
Hallelujah we finally have a common agreement on something. Indeed, freeware CDP's are completely different from software programs.
But , Payware items in the form of Cdp's are another matter and that is what I am referring too.
Please stop going off on tangents.
"Freeware and open source software are the only exceptions that I can think of."
Hallelujah we finally have a common agreement on something. Indeed, freeware CDP's are completely different from software programs.
But , Payware items in the form of Cdp's are another matter and that is what I am referring too.
Please stop going off on tangents.
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IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
@bolivar,
purchased from the store has the same user conditions as any other payware software.
You do not own it, so do not patronise me.
Mike.
purchased from the store has the same user conditions as any other payware software.
You do not own it, so do not patronise me.
Mike.
@IsambardKingdomBrunel...Incorrect. I have thousands of dollars worth of trainz store stuff that i can and have used in other trainz games from past to present iterations. Don t know where you are coming from. I could even give those cdp's away and they would be usable in other trainzer's games. I could give those cdp's away to others and those items would be usable in others'games. I do not , but I could . Software , yes, if there is an imbedded code that only allows the end user to use it, and no others. Payware cdp's? No, not at all.
If you are talking about "conditions of sale", well yes, legally one has to comply in that area. But that is a separate issue to the original post.
You are muddying the water IsambardKingdomBrunel, please address the original issue. My original post was questioning what time frame exclusive items are allowed to be purchased. And why some items are kept away from the masses (ie. Those who wish to own outright) and others are not. And I questioned the business practise regarding THAT issue, not the whole subscription model issue. Some have blindly jumped into the conversation without thinking about my original post.
Thanks for your input. Sorry If I appear to be patronising. I am a bit frustrated though. Regards.
If you are talking about "conditions of sale", well yes, legally one has to comply in that area. But that is a separate issue to the original post.
You are muddying the water IsambardKingdomBrunel, please address the original issue. My original post was questioning what time frame exclusive items are allowed to be purchased. And why some items are kept away from the masses (ie. Those who wish to own outright) and others are not. And I questioned the business practise regarding THAT issue, not the whole subscription model issue. Some have blindly jumped into the conversation without thinking about my original post.
Thanks for your input. Sorry If I appear to be patronising. I am a bit frustrated though. Regards.
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My gripe is that payments are always in $US and not local $AUS currency [N3V a Qld. Aus. company]. So basically Australian users pay more b/c fluctuating exchange rates plus bank charges for converting. If steam can charge in $AUS why cant N3V. I'd be tempted to go monthly if this were the case.
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
No you cannot give the cdp's away bolivar, you are not allowed to transfer the licence for those payware items.
The conditions apply just the same as when you buy the main Trainz software. Plus nothing on the Trainz store is sold in cdp format anymore.
They are packages directly installed into the main game. Those payware packages also have licences, that stipulate that you can use them as long as N3V decides you can.
If they buggered off tomorrow, you would not have any way of downloading them for a start. Or come to think of it using Trainz online.
You lease you do not own.
Mike.
The conditions apply just the same as when you buy the main Trainz software. Plus nothing on the Trainz store is sold in cdp format anymore.
They are packages directly installed into the main game. Those payware packages also have licences, that stipulate that you can use them as long as N3V decides you can.
If they buggered off tomorrow, you would not have any way of downloading them for a start. Or come to think of it using Trainz online.
You lease you do not own.
Mike.
Yes Isambard, I realise the licenses attached to the payware stipulate that only the purchaser can use payware. It is not impossible,though. Legally there are constraints, but the Russian websites offering payware are proof that those items can be used elsewhere. I am not condoning piracy, either. But just pointing out that payware conditions of sale have no bearing on the ability of people to use that payware, legally or otherwise.
As far as the software is concerned, you are correct in pointing out that if N3V were to go out of business, we would not be able to play our beloved games. Payware and software could only work on those games that do not require the internet connection. I am not sure when this situation came into being. After TRS2010, I believe that TANE was the first iteration of the game when an internet connection had to be maintained.
As far as the software is concerned, you are correct in pointing out that if N3V were to go out of business, we would not be able to play our beloved games. Payware and software could only work on those games that do not require the internet connection. I am not sure when this situation came into being. After TRS2010, I believe that TANE was the first iteration of the game when an internet connection had to be maintained.
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IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
No idea about the russians, i thought we were talking about N3V and N3V's shop and DLC.
Plus the base software. Read the EULA.................... 2.2 This Software is licensed to you. It is NOT sold.
Mike.
Plus the base software. Read the EULA.................... 2.2 This Software is licensed to you. It is NOT sold.
Mike.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Surely the point is that we were told that nothing would be exclusive to those who subscribe, that all DLC would be available for one off purchases.
If that situation has changed for good, perhaps N3V would be courteous enough to say so.
If that situation has changed for good, perhaps N3V would be courteous enough to say so.
Yes, but in the Store I see "Purchase TRS19" or "Purchase TRS22" in multiple places, not "Purchase a license to use...".
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