Route crashes to desktop

A route I've been working for for years (I'm up to version 143) is now suddenly causing TS2019 to crash to the desktop. There is NO indication of the problem either on-screen or in the Event Viewer. Trainz simply blows itself up.

I've added no new content since the last four iterations, simply moved a few things around. All four of my current backups crash the same way. It is a fairly long-ish route (57 miles) but not very wide, so there aren't that many boards to deal with. I have routes much bigger than this one that run fine. Every time it crashes, I have to endure a database rebuild (approximately 100 seconds) before I can do anything.

At a loss as to what to try next to keep this from happening. What bothers me the most is that I can start Surveyor on the route. It loads and if I do absolutely nothing--no keyboard or mouse, the route will crash in about 30 seconds. During loadup, I get the "caching" notices and such, then the route appears just fine. Wait a little while, then boom, down it goes.

Bill

I presume you mean loading the route only, without the session, crashes?

I would try starting with a single blank baseboard and try merging it to that.

Another approach is to limit its access to its dependencies systematically and isolate the problem by process of elimination - tedious but it may be effective.

You should keep incremental copies of your route as you develop it. Apparently you deleted the last version to load without crashing? Don't delete the older backups until the newer backups prove themselves. Perhaps UserData\backups has something stowed away.

I'm not sure its possible to load a route and not the session. If you mean do I load the session, move to the route layer, and edit it, the answer is no. I've always loaded the route and done my edit there.

Tried the blank baseboard bit. Didn't work. The single board was stable, but as soon as I selected my big route, the game crashed.

Bill

HiBaller said:

I'm not sure its possible to load a route and not the session.

Click to expand...

Very apparent and very possible. Look at your start screen.

HiBaller said:

Tried the blank baseboard bit. Didn't work. The single board was stable, but as soon as I selected my big route, the game crashed.

Bill

Click to expand...

Time to try disabling the dependencies systematically using the "Disable" in the Content menu of a CM window.

Is this the only route with this problem? Plenty of disk space?

Yup. Only one that crashes. Tons of disk space.

@deneban: I'm running build 117009. There isn't a thing on my start screen that mentions loading a route without loading the session. No menu item, nothing. Could you elaborate? There is nothing in the session anyway. I've yet to create one other than the Default that appears at creation.

Bill

HiBaller said:

@deneban: I'm running build 117009. There isn't a thing on my start screen that mentions loading a route without loading the session. No menu item, nothing. Could you elaborate? There is nothing in the session anyway. I've yet to create one other than the Default that appears at creation.

Bill

Click to expand...

After pressing the Start Trainz button in the launch window, press the Driver/Surveyor button. You are now editing or creating routes only. That is until to click on "View Sessions" button, in which case you are working with route/session combinations.

Oh. That's what I've been doing for years. There are quite a few who promote editing the session instead of the route, but I've always edited the route. When you create even a new route, you're also creating a session called Default. It gets saved at the same time as the route. So, we're talking about the same thing.

Bill

HiBaller said:

I'm not sure its possible to load a route and not the session. ...Bill

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HiBaller said:

Oh. That's what I've been doing for years. There are quite a few who promote editing the session instead of the route, but I've always edited the route. When you create even a new route, you're also creating a session called Default. It gets saved at the same time as the route. So, we're talking about the same thing. Bill

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Good, I am glad you are sure now.

So is it the route alone that is "crashing to desktop"?

Yes. When the route crashes, it takes the session with it.

Bill

HiBaller said:

Oh. That's what I've been doing for years. There are quite a few who promote editing the session instead of the route, but I've always edited the route. When you create even a new route, you're also creating a session called Default. It gets saved at the same time as the route. So, we're talking about the same thing.

Bill

Click to expand...

You are ccnfusing sessions with the session layer in the route. Anyway, you should be able to delete all the sessions associated with the route and see if it still crashes.

This may or may not help,

I did a little search on Google and came up with this Thread, maybe this will provide some more information for you?

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?162652-TRS19-Crash-to-desktop

Here is a portion of the comments for Crash to Desktop issues.

Through trial and error of disabling everything except the TransDEM produced assets, and slowly re-enabling, I believe I've narrowed it down to either of two styles of track, <kuid2:368725:49035:1> Protrack NSWGR dirty brown stone, old timber, base plated and/or <kuid2:368725:49037:1> Protrack NSWGR dirty brown stone, old timber, baseplated, rusty rail. I believe it's actually the first one, as when I disabled that but left the rusty variant enabled it crashed in a different manner (as soon as the route loaded, before I even had a chance to move towards the faulty area), whereas enabling the first with the rusty disabled still allowed me to move towards the area before it crashed.

At one time, I thought this was the gold-standard of US rail, and swear that I had gotten it off the DLS, but it's listed as Third Party now. I have seen now that Bob MSGSapper has created new rails, would these be a good replacement? And, I guess the bigger question, can I do a mass Asset Replacement on disabled assets, or do I need to re-enable the NSWGR rails and tread carefully until I can make the replacement?

Tony, would it still be helpful to submit the crash report to determine what might be going wrong with the asset to cause it? Or is it a moot point?

February 22nd, 2021, 08:01 PM #10
Tony_Hilliam
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Join Date Nov 2006LocationAustralia, QldPosts7,567

pitkin said:

You are ccnfusing sessions with the session layer in the route. Anyway, you should be able to delete all the sessions associated with the route and see if it still crashes.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I am getting at, except disable rather than delete the sessions.

HiBaller said:

Yes. When the route crashes, it takes the session with it.Bill

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I think we are going in a circle. Now that you know how to load the route only, per the quotation below, is that crashing all by itself without loading a session?

deneban said:

After pressing the Start Trainz button in the launch window, press the Driver/Surveyor button. You are now editing or creating routes only. That is until to click on "View Sessions" button, in which case you are working with route/session combinations.

Click to expand...

blueodessey said:

This may or may not help,

The best way to troubleshoot this type of issue is disable the deps, restart and retest. Then enable various sets of content until it crashes. By narrowing down the offending asset we'll then be able to harden the code against that condition.

Also, if you're not using the latest beta, then I'd suggest creating a copy of your install folder and local data folder, and retest there. The beta version has assertions enabled which, if triggered, will help identify things as well.
​

Last edited by Tony_Hilliam; February 22nd, 2021 at 08:03 PM.​

Tony Hilliam
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Click to expand...

That is the approach I have been advocating in this thread, but first I am trying with him to isolate whether its a session crashing or the route all by itself.

There are old threads from the TANE days that suggest that disabled assets still appear in routes/sessions that already include them. It may well be that is no longer the case. Anyway, if this is a major troubleshooting issue for the OP, I think he should delete, possibly first storing to a cdp, all the sessions. I am not arguing with you deneban, just suggesting for the OP.

pitkin said:

There are old threads from the TANE days that suggest that disabled assets still appear in routes/sessions that already include them. It may well be that is no longer the case. Anyway, if this is a major troubleshooting issue for the OP, I think he should delete, possibly first storing to a cdp, all the sessions. I am not arguing with you deneban, just suggesting for the OP.

Click to expand...

Ok sounds good to be on the safe side.

There are NO sessions listed in CM except Default. I've deleted it several times. It is recreated every time I edit the ROUTE using the Edit Route button (NOT View Sessions and Edit Session there). I agree. We are talking in circles as the default session is created every time I edit the route. There is NO way I know of to create/edit a route without creating a Default session.

Disabling content in bunches now.

Bill

HiBaller said:

There are NO sessions listed in CM except Default. I've deleted it several times. It is recreated every time I edit the ROUTE using the Edit Route button (NOT View Sessions and Edit Session there).

Click to expand...

Does this mean a default session is saved to disk just before the crash to desktop?

There is NO way I know of to create/edit a route without creating a Default session.

Click to expand...

See what happens if you edit the route in surveyor from the CM (contextual menu)

Disabling content in bunches now.

Bill

Click to expand...

I would not disable base, packaged, or built-in - they would be on the least suspicious.

CM -> Edit asset in Surveyor = CTD. Didn't happen right away, about a minute passed without any input from me before it crashed. I'm disabling "Downloaded from DLS" and "Modified," nothing else.

Bill

HiBaller said:

CM -> Edit asset in Surveyor = CTD. Didn't happen right away, about a minute passed without any input from me before it crashed. I'm disabling "Downloaded from DLS" and "Modified," nothing else.

Bill

Click to expand...

If you had that much time does the GUI allow you to save it? If so, does the save crash upon loading?

Was a default session created when you loaded from CM?