Absolute Vs. Relative positioning

Fierogt87 · Feb 16, 2023

When you lay track, it melts itself to the ground, but after you lock the spline points (set a specific height), it will stay where it is no matter what you do to the terrain. This should happen with scenery, as well.

Also, what if we could lock objects to other objects, like say, locking a garage, swingset, shed, to a house, so that when you paste it from the scrapbook, it is exact in relation to each other, regardless of the terrain underneath it.

pware · Feb 16, 2023

Fierogt87 said:
When you lay track, it melts itself to the ground, but after you lock the spline points (set a specific height), it will stay where it is no matter what you do to the terrain. This should happen with scenery, as well.

Not sure about that. I prefer mesh objects (buildings, trees, etc) to be fixed to the terrain height or, as in Surveyor 2.0, to a set height above or below the terrain height. So when you change the terrain those objects move with it otherwise you would have to manually reset the heights of every object in the affected area.

Fierogt87 said:
Also, what if we could lock objects to other objects, like say, locking a garage, swingset, shed, to a house, so that when you paste it from the scrapbook, it is exact in relation to each other, regardless of the terrain underneath it.

The first part (locking objects together) I agree would be a good optional addition to the tool set. The second part "regardless of the terrain underneath it" is already available in the Scrapbook Palette Filter options. Set the Ground Height filter to None.

Fierogt87 · Feb 16, 2023

pware said:
Not sure about that. I prefer mesh objects (buildings, trees, etc) to be fixed to the terrain height or, as in Surveyor 2.0, to a set height above or below the terrain height. So when you change the terrain those objects move with it otherwise you would have to manually reset the heights of every object in the affected area.

It could be a selectable option. I've got 35 panels of brick pavers here, if something happens to the terrain, i dont want any of them to move...

Fierogt87 · Feb 16, 2023

I copied these Pavers and pasted them on a hill using all three options in the scrapbook filters, they all pasted the same.

pware · Feb 16, 2023

I just ran some quick tests using concrete slab objects - both spline and mesh. The object(s) were pasted from the scrapbook using the Ground Height filter set to Relative and then Absolute on a sloping double reverse gradient.

1. Mesh object. The height is fixed because the mesh object cannot be bent.

2. Spline objects (same object at 3 different lengths). The height varies because the spline can be bent.

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

pware said:
I just ran some quick tests using concrete slab objects - both spline and mesh. The object(s) were pasted from the scrapbook using the Ground Height filter set to Relative and then Absolute on a sloping double reverse gradient.

Mine are meshes, not splines, there are 35 of them nested together.

pware · Feb 17, 2023

My top screenshot was also meshes, not splines.

Here is another one with meshes only pasted on a 50% terrain grade.

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

I must not know what I'm doing then. scenery should be able to be set at absolute positioning, if desired.

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

Additionally, when positioning an object using the info box, it should move on the object's axes, instead of the world's axes.

pware · Feb 17, 2023

If Absolute is selected then the scrapbook will be pasted at the exact height it was when the scrapbook was created. So if the original scrapbook had a height of 10m and was pasted into an area with height of 100m then it will be pasted at the height of 10m forming a hollow 90m deep.

If Relative is selected then it will be pasted at the target area height +/- the Absolute height difference. So if the original scrapbook had a height of 10m and was pasted into an area with a height of 100m then it will be pasted at a height of 110m (10m above or relative to the target area. If its original height was -10m then it would be pasted at 90m.

If None is selected then it will be pasted at the exact height of the target area.

pware · Feb 17, 2023

Fierogt87 said:
Additionally, when positioning an object using the info box, it should move on the object's axes, instead of the world's axes.

You can do that with the Fine Adjustment tool. Select all the objects and then move them using a Left Click and Drag.

The Info Palette has to use the World Axes because that is how all objects are actually positioned. It is the single common co-ordinate system for all objects in the Trainz World.

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

pware said:
You can do that with the Fine Adjustment tool. Select all the objects and then move them using a Left Click and Drag.

The Info Palette has to use the World Axes because that is how all objects are actually positioned. It is the single common co-ordinate system for all objects in the Trainz World.

The info box is far more precise, and one can't type numbers in the gyro.

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

pware said:
If Absolute is selected then the scrapbook will be pasted at the exact height it was when the scrapbook was created. So if the original scrapbook had a height of 10m and was pasted into an area with height of 100m then it will be pasted at the height of 10m forming a hollow 90m deep.

If Relative is selected then it will be pasted at the target area height +/- the Absolute height difference. So if the original scrapbook had a height of 10m and was pasted into an area with a height of 100m then it will be pasted at a height of 110m (10m above or relative to the target area. If its original height was -10m then it would be pasted at 90m.

If None is selected then it will be pasted at the exact height of the target area.

I'll refer you to my post with the photo that show how all of that didn't happen...

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...Vs-Relative-positioning&p=1959991#post1959991

pware · Feb 17, 2023

Could you identify the kuid of the pavers you used?

Fierogt87 · Feb 17, 2023

pware said:
Could you identify the kuid of the pavers you used?

[FONT=&quot]<KUID2:275817:60676:1>[/FONT]

pware · Feb 17, 2023

My theory is that the issue is being caused by two factors. They are separate objects and at the same size as the grid resolution (10m). Each object will be placed separately and, because of their small size, will be subject to any minor variations in the terrain below. My experiments in pasting them on flat terrain with the None or Relative options, did not result in any problems. Using the Absolute option or uneven terrain did. In the case of the Absolute option the ground terrain that was pasted underneath the objects was not wide enough to give a flat surface (i.e. I suspect the grid resolution is a factor here).

I am puzzled as to why you are using a sequence of small mesh objects instead of a spline which would do the same job much more efficiently. That is what I do, There are plenty of suitable spline candidates on the DLS such as:-

<kuid2:30671:38007:1> Conc Slab 10 m
<kuid2:30671:38008:1> Conc Slab 15 m
<kuid2:30671:38006:1> Conc Slab 20 m
<kuid2:30671:38003:1> Conc Slab 25 m
<kuid2:30671:38001:1> Conc Slab 50 m
<kuid2:60238:38652:1> Concrete Slab 100 by 25
<kuid2:30671:38004:1> Conc Slab 75 m

and many others.

Absolute Vs. Relative positioning

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