Disappointed NV3

So I found the original deal that caused me to subscribe. While there is an entire thread going on around the confusion of what you get, what happens when you cancel, etc (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?165938-Welcome-to-TRS22-from-the-CEO/page24) I can see that it mentions "unless you cancel". I'm ok with the auto-renewal.

I guess the part that really disappoints me is that NV3 is keeping my full $64.99 payment if I cancel a few days into the new term. I didn't see that anywhere but am sure its in the T&Cs. Nothing illegal just not a practice I'm happy with, hence the "disappointment". Not cool. I'm happy to donate money to NV3 b/c I love what they do and appreciate the difficulty of building this kind of product while trying to stay profitable. But this just experience just leaves me with a negative impression. I'll still continue to support this great product and make purchases, but will never sign up for any kind of subscription in the future.

Perhaps, in hindsight, the monthly subscription would have been a better option. You can cancel at any time but only lose the remaining days of your prepaid month and you can renew the subscription at anytime later and have everything restored to what it was before you cancelled.

When it came to software and data access, I was also a subscription "phobic/denier" for many years but I now see its many advantages. While I still refuse to buy into the Office 365 (or whatever it is called now) subscription I do have annual subscriptions for antivirus software and a system cleanup/maintenance software - both allow installation on all my devices including mobile.

My takeaway is that perhaps this situation should have been addressed through the Helpdesk rather than a forum post. I have found that companies are more likely to make exceptions to policy if they can do so without setting a precedent.

capdiamont said:

If we figure two hundred buck s a month, that means a minimum of 37 subscriptions go to pay just for this software. If three hundred bucks a month, then a minimum of 55 subscriptions are needed to just fund this software. Does this cost include start up cost of making sure it is compatible with the existing software and the software is secure? What about training? What about labor to maintain the software? How many disgruntled users are there without the software vs disgruntled users if the software isn’t configured properly or spams users? $64.99 a year a lot of money for some people but it is ok to dictate that a business spends a few hundred bucks a month? It isn’t my money right?

My post is #39 in this topic, is there really that many disgruntled people about this topic?

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I imagine that NV3 already has a package that is quite capable of doing this task, and software like this isn't just capable of one task, you should be able to get a software package that's capable of undertaking ALL of the tasks that are needed to fulfill the subscription membership tasks that NV3 needs to achieve to avoid this happening . It really should just be a matter of making a separate list of yearly members and sending them a reminder once a year, not rocket science is it ?

As usual a few serial apologists for NV3 come out of the woodwork if NV3 are criticized in any way, I never quite understand the mentality of those who consider companies can do no wrong and any consumer complaints are vexatious, in fact you appear to have the same attitude whenever I say anything against apple, we've had words over their actions haven't we ? We need to agree to differ as never the twain will meet in our opinions over such issues.

As I said, if NV3 just cant afford to properly set up basic subscription options , i don't want them to go belly up, but if they aren't that strapped for cash, they might just consider either creating or changing their software so customers are better informed. After all they are the ones who have set up all these fairly complex membership options in the first place, no one forced them to move to a new way of selling their products did they ? .

Consumer rights are all too often ignored by many businesses and the reason the practice is so widespread is that very few people bother to complain.

dangavel said:

I imagine that NV3 already has a package that is quite capable of doing this task

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Too many posts in the forums are based on speculations, assumptions and imaginings, not facts or evidence. Claims such as "many have complained" and "most are opposed" are often based on a few negative posts out of many and hundreds or even thousands of "reads" (1300+ as is the case here).

dangavel said:

As usual a few serial apologists for NV3 come out of the woodwork if NV3 are criticized in any way, I never quite understand the mentality of those who consider companies can do no wrong and any consumer complaints are vexatious

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The "knockers" also come out of the woodwork to act as "arnchair CEOs" and label those who disagree with them as "fanbois" and "apologists". I am perhaps naive in thinking that a forum is about "open discussion" and the "free exchange of ideas", not an echo chamber. You don't have to agree with all the opinions expressed but labeling those who express different views as "apologists" - is that a good argument?

dangavel said:

As I said, if NV3 just cant afford to properly set up basic subscription options , i don't want them to go belly up

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At least there we can agree.

No, N3V is not perfect (and neither am I for that matter).

My thoughts.

pware said:

Too many posts in the forums are based on speculations, assumptions and imaginings, not facts or evidence. Claims such as "many have complained" and "most are opposed" are often based on a few negative posts out of many and hundreds or even thousands of "reads" (1300+ as is the case here).



The "knockers" also come out of the woodwork to act as "arnchair CEOs" and label those who disagree with them as "fanbois" and "apologists". I am perhaps naive in thinking that a forum is about "open discussion" and the "free exchange of ideas", not an echo chamber. You don't have to agree with all the opinions expressed but labeling those who express different views as "apologists" - is that a good argument?



At least there we can agree.

No, N3V is not perfect (and neither am I for that matter).

My thoughts.

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If nv3 hasnt got a subscription package that is capable of sending a separate reminder to those who have yearly memberships, then they purchased a package that is sub par, there are dozens of such packages designed to provide subscription services for small businesses, so the costs are hardly onerous, the task is a very simple one , the majority of packages would offer such a service for affordable prices, this is indisputable, the packages are out there, used by thousands of companies. if their current package doesnt have that feature, perhaps its time they changed the package they are using.

As I stated, I cant understand why some people will make excuses for companies who produce flawed items , there are people here who do that and there are those who are unrelenting knockers, I fall somewhere in between, if I see something I think is bad practice , I'm going to call it out, if there are good things about a product, I'll mention them , the trouble is with trainz is , there are an awful lot of features that are a disappointment , probably about as many that are great, most of them are due to NV3 being a small company without the resources to fix the issues.

If you don't like me occasionally being negative about NV3 ,or mentioning that some people won't tolerate any criticism despite the obvious issues, ( I presume you think I'm including you in this category when actually I was thinking of some of my fellow mac users who are true fainbois, who will defend them to the death ) there's always the ignore button ! I encourage you to use it, then you wont have to put up with my occasional carping.

In N3V's defence, they provide updates, a forum, a DLS (such as it is) and a newsletter to standalone purchasers.

My fear is the platform becoming more of a game than a simulator. One where the subscriber serves the vendor. Snubbed content creation, favouring locked items by retail and volume instead.

As I said earlier, we can't automatically send a message to just the annual renewals. If we could we would.

Tony_Hilliam said:

As I said earlier, we can't automatically send a message to just the annual renewals. If we could we would.

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In theory you have a database or a collection of names (table of names?) and a list (table?) of annual renewals. In theory they could be loaded into something like SQL Server (Microsoft azure) or even Access, do a join then access, with a view if need be, the data with Microsoft visual Basic ( the version that comes with Word will do fine) and do a mailing list into email. Job done. Even one of my technical writers or summer students could do it, maybe not all of them but most could. Some of my programmers would have thought it beneath them though.

Cheerio John

dangavel said:

I imagine that NV3 already has a package that is quite capable of doing this task, and software like this isn't just capable of one task, you should be able to get a software package that's capable of undertaking ALL of the tasks that are needed to fulfill the subscription membership tasks that NV3 needs to achieve to avoid this happening . It really should just be a matter of making a separate list of yearly members and sending them a reminder once a year, not rocket science is it ?

As usual a few serial apologists for NV3 come out of the woodwork if NV3 are criticized in any way, I never quite understand the mentality of those who consider companies can do no wrong and any consumer complaints are vexatious, in fact you appear to have the same attitude whenever I say anything against apple, we've had words over their actions haven't we ? We need to agree to differ as never the twain will meet in our opinions over such issues.

As I said, if NV3 just cant afford to properly set up basic subscription options , i don't want them to go belly up, but if they aren't that strapped for cash, they might just consider either creating or changing their software so customers are better informed. After all they are the ones who have set up all these fairly complex membership options in the first place, no one forced them to move to a new way of selling their products did they ? .

Consumer rights are all too often ignored by many businesses and the reason the practice is so widespread is that very few people bother to complain.

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they have said they don’t have the capability of sending reminder emails period. I didn’t have a problem with the OP complaining through I thought the tone was a little over the top. Fine whatever. I didn’t have a problem with the idea of reminder emails. I have a problem when people get in fantasy land mode of thinking that things would be easy or a few hundreds of dollars a month is cheap, upon some baseless idea that lots of people are disgruntled about this. Sure some people don’t like it, however where do you know that a lot people are disgruntled about this topic? How do you know it would be cheap when you don’t know the actual costs of software or anything else related to employing the software or maintaining the software? I’m sorry if my ability to think about different aspects will come up answers you don’t like. If you actually read my posts you would realize I’m not an apologist nor a fanboy. I just choose different forums. I choose to live with what I have and work to make things better. I choose to do beta testing to make things better by providing feedback. Yes I have had Apple listen to my feedback, not always of course. I choose to not respond to some things. Things are better if we don’t label them in to groups. Running a business is hard. Programming is hard. All this game programming is very hard. Trying to do all this programming while maintaining backwards compatibility is even harder. Yes it is frustrating having errors, however fixing one thing in the tons of code can create other problems. Different OSs, versions of OSs, devices, GPUs, sound capabilities etc all work against getting everything right. My experiences give me a different viewpoint. Different hobbies. Living and traveling through the world due to being in the Army and the conflicts.

johnwhelan said:

Some of my programmers would have thought it beneath them though.

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Huh. A classic comment!

Dangavel, if you were implying I am an N3V fanboi, you are mistaken. My posts were coming at the issue from an Australian Consumer Law standpoint, which I am well versed in having managed a franchise in a company oft accused of trade practice violations, not to defend N3V in any way. My other point was regarding taking personal responsibility for your own actions regarding subscriptions. I deal with facts, not suppositions and imaginings. I do heartily agree with your sentiment of not wanting N3V to go belly up and leave us with no Trainz at all.
cheers
Graeme