Depreciated, low quality assets?

P

P10B

New member
Trying out the TS+G subscription to see what it's all about. The biggest problem I'm running into right away (aside from the 4k lockout & borderline performance on 2k with a 3090ti, and the lack of keybind options for increase/decrease independent brake rather than toggling on/off) is the lack of updated locomotive files to download and run. Everything available is ancient, depreciated stuff - including much of the paywalled content that the subscription unlocks.

Low poly models so jagged and sharp they're an OSHA violation, static control stands lacking any sort of animation, a pandemic of ultra-low bit rate sound effects that an Amiga 1200 could best, the same comically obnoxious track sound effects that haven't been updated since I played the 2004 version, traction motor load curves that are dubious at best with physics to match, etc. (Nevermind any sort of DC transition sequence for that matter.)

I tried going into the Download Station and applied a search filter to only include hits for modern TS 2022 content and searched for a few basic, ubiquitous locomotives like the SD40, SD9 and GP9. I got exactly one hit, and it was a port/reskin of something from 2007. I had to include results from as far back as TS2012 in order to get any more hits. What's the deal here? Am I doing something wrong, or are all the assets here really that decrepit and ancient?

TL;DR: "Where's the beef?"
 
Last edited:
P10B said:
a pandemic of ultra-low bit rate sound effects that an Amiga 1200 could best

(snip)

What's the deal here? Am I doing something wrong, or are all the assets here really that decrepit and ancient?
Click to expand...

My Amiga 1000 had a 64 bit sound system that was superior to today's 32 bit systems.

Besides that, many of my assets have been upgraded in one way or other. PM2IM conversions, remastered or alternate sounds, up-scaled textures, new bogies etc.


Trainz being a user configurable simulator, I actually enjoy making old new again.


TBH, a greater part of the assets I've downloaded over the years invariably needed some tweaks, dependencies or attachments.
 
Everything available is ancient, depreciated stuff - including much of the paywalled content that the subscription unlocks.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you have found NO quality content? Or just not as much as you were expecting?

I'd be interested to hear whether you've checked out any of the following items:

<kuid2:935657:200000:3> PT ICE4 WON1
<kuid2:45324:100285:2> AMTK P42DC ph V
<kuid2:217537:595:11> Class 153 GWR Green
<kuid2:338228:300339:3> UP GP38-2 564-605 EX-SP 1
<kuid2:661281:35033:17> RMRX GP40-2
<kuid2:523:19723276:5> USRA Light Pacific
<kuid2:45324:100220:2> CN C40-8W
<kuid:-25:1400> QR PB15

Also, rather than limiting your search to TRS22 only, I'd be looking at anything 4.9 or higher since that is when the new materials were introduced.

For example all the items in the JR content pack:
<kuid2:506034:15565:3> APA 60Ft.9In. woodchip gondola
<kuid2:506034:587940:2> BN 60Ft.9In. woodchip gondola 70's dirty
<kuid2:506034:455703:1> CN GP9 phase I
<kuid2:506034:355067:3> MRL 60Ft.9In. woodchip gondola
<kuid2:532427:100027:2> IC C40-8W
<kuid:506034:825595> CP 89ft flatcar
<kuid2:506034:455619:1> CN GP9 phase II (zebra)
<kuid:506034:356686> CP 100 Ton Hopper
<kuid:506034:418942> CP 60ft flatcar
<kuid2:506034:440326:3> CN GP9 zebra (high weathered)
<kuid:506034:245841> CP 62Ft. Bulkhead
<kuid2:45324:100248:2> CSX C40-8W yn3 (ex-CR)
<kuid2:45324:100298:2> CSX C40-8W yn3b (ex-CR)
<kuid2:506034:789800:4> SP 60Ft.9In. woodchip gondola

I'd be interested in hearing what you think about those items.
 
I think it depends no what you're looking for.

Trainz users cover a wide range of interests and pockets. Some of those low poly assets are essential for those running a lower end machine.

Generally speaking find a content creator whose work you like then see what else they've made. Most content creators have their niche as do most end users. For example I have very little interest in any of the models listed by Tony. They just aren't my area of interest.

Finding things on the DLS is hard but it is rewarding when you do stumble across something. It might be useful to have better filters such as uses PBR or even omit assets without LOD available.

Cheerio John
 
The GP38 listed is a dead content ID and is no longer available.

The GP9s listed have issues with sunlight clipping through the cab roof & walls, casting outside sunlight and foliage shadows across the entire interior of the unit.

The RMRX GP40 is probably the most polished contender I've tried thus far, but it still has it's share of issues. Namely, the power and dynamic braking curves are awful compared to the real thing. The ammeter nearly red-lines starting out in notch 1, pegs in notch 2 (without immediately slipping the wheels or blowing half the fuses in the AR10 I might add) and so on. Dynamic braking is almost flat above 25 MPH, limited to well under the unit's rated 700 amps. It suddenly picks up exponentially below that, red-lining the meter without any protective action by the dynamic brake regulator to reduce shunt field excitation in the MG and limit braking current. Even GP9s have this feature, as old as they are. Same thing with other locomotive systems like the PCS and dynamic brake interlocks; totally non-existent. Put the 26L brake stand into emergency under power? Governor stays wide open and MG stays loaded like nothing even happened.

All of the locomotives are stuck with incremental engine speed sound effects. Swiping from 0-8 results in a long, tedious sequential transition through each and every engine speed that takes upwards of 30~35 seconds and frequently involves a lot of audio ducking and/or popping along the way. By the time the audio has caught up with the game's physics, a light locomotive has already reached 70 MPH. In the real world we're talking one smooth, continuous sweep from 280-325 RPM all the way up to 835-900 RPM over a span of 5-10 seconds depending on whether we're looking at a 567B/C/D or 645E, turbo/blower, etc. The sound effects emitted by multiple locomotives in an MU arrangement also overlap and layer obnoxiously in a very artificial way that is annoying to no end.

Also encountering a lot of rendering artifacts/bugs on the RMRX route - terrain that shifts and morphs in strange, alien ways as the camera approaches and departs, tree leaves that flicker in patches between chlorophyll green and sky blue artifacting in spite of the presence of terrain behind them. Mind you this is with 'Ultra' video settings on a 3090ti, 6 core/12 thread processor running at 4.4 GHz, NVMe SSDs, 32 GB of RAM spread out across 4 DDR4 slots, etc. The 2k output being upscaled onto a 4k display is hazy at best as one would expect. If you own a 2k display or lower - you're golden. But if you've upgraded beyond that you're completely SOL if you expect the sort of fidelity that can only be had with a native resolution. I know of very little software these days that can't manage a solid 60 frames or better rendering at 4k on modern flagship GPUs.

Still can't find a solution for incrementing/decrementing the independent brakes via keyboard, which is very aggravating when trying to control a light locomotive. Can't find a way to permanently disable DCC control either, or change the default to 'Realistic Mode'. Mouse input is noticeably laggy and is internally accelerated by the game engine, which is annoying to no end for someone who disabled that "feature" at the operating system level well over a decade ago. No camera sway or cab rocking/tilt - which is a small nit to pick, but one that has a very big impact on the overall experience.

All in all my impression is that the software feels more like it's tailored towards model railroaders and trackside railfans who like to look on and take pictures from afar (no offense) rather than one that is intended to provide an accurate & realistic experience of sitting in the big seat. Aside from some of the visuals and in-game DLC features, it really doesn't seem like a whole lot has changed with the core of this product over the past decade and a half. More like a little bit of feature creep welded on to the same tired old Y2K-era undercarriage. The subscription price and the marketing on the store page make it out to be a real primo, curated experience, but so far I'm just not seeing that. Being able to access all of the content without running into paywalls and being able to support continued R&D is nice, but the question is; Aside from visuals, exactly what R&D has been going on over the past decade, and what does that precedent speak of for the future?


Props for the modelling and texturing of the RMRX GP40 cab interior though, definitely points awarded for that. I just wish the rest of the experience was built to the same standard...
 
Last edited:
You know a lot about trains and computers. Do you by happenstance to live in Colorado and volunteer at the Colorado Railroad Museum?
 
jordon412 said:
You know a lot about trains and computers. Do you by happenstance to live in Colorado and volunteer at the Colorado Railroad Museum?
Click to expand...

Not that particular state or museum, no. I do like to get dirty crawling around inside of them though. Troubleshooting dynamic brake problems on an SD9 at the moment.
 
There's a Youtuber I follow that lives in Colorado and volunteers at the Colorado Railroad Museum and on his most recent livestream was considering re-joining the Trainz community. I wasn't sure if you were him or not.
 
P10B said:
The GP38 listed is a dead content ID and is no longer available.

The GP9s listed have issues with sunlight clipping through the cab roof & walls, casting outside sunlight and foliage shadows across the entire interior of the unit.

The RMRX GP40 is probably the most polished contender I've tried thus far, but it still has it's share of issues. Namely, the power and dynamic braking curves are awful compared to the real thing. The ammeter nearly red-lines starting out in notch 1, pegs in notch 2 (without immediately slipping the wheels or blowing half the fuses in the AR10 I might add) and so on. Dynamic braking is almost flat above 25 MPH, limited to well under the unit's rated 700 amps. It suddenly picks up exponentially below that, red-lining the meter without any protective action by the dynamic brake regulator to reduce shunt field excitation in the MG and limit braking current. Even GP9s have this feature, as old as they are. Same thing with other locomotive systems like the PCS and dynamic brake interlocks; totally non-existent. Put the 26L brake stand into emergency under power? Governor stays wide open and MG stays loaded like nothing even happened.

All of the locomotives are stuck with incremental engine speed sound effects. Swiping from 0-8 results in a long, tedious sequential transition through each and every engine speed that takes upwards of 30~35 seconds and frequently involves a lot of audio ducking and/or popping along the way. By the time the audio has caught up with the game's physics, a light locomotive has already reached 70 MPH. In the real world we're talking one smooth, continuous sweep from 280-325 RPM all the way up to 835-900 RPM over a span of 5-10 seconds depending on whether we're looking at a 567B/C/D or 645E, turbo/blower, etc. The sound effects emitted by multiple locomotives in an MU arrangement also overlap and layer obnoxiously in a very artificial way that is annoying to no end.

Also encountering a lot of rendering artifacts/bugs on the RMRX route - terrain that shifts and morphs in strange, alien ways as the camera approaches and departs, tree leaves that flicker in patches between chlorophyll green and sky blue artifacting in spite of the presence of terrain behind them. Mind you this is with 'Ultra' video settings on a 3090ti, 6 core/12 thread processor running at 4.4 GHz, NVMe SSDs, 32 GB of RAM spread out across 4 DDR4 slots, etc. The 2k output being upscaled onto a 4k display is hazy at best as one would expect. If you own a 2k display or lower - you're golden. But if you've upgraded beyond that you're completely SOL if you expect the sort of fidelity that can only be had with a native resolution. I know of very little software these days that can't manage a solid 60 frames or better rendering at 4k on modern flagship GPUs.

Still can't find a solution for incrementing/decrementing the independent brakes via keyboard, which is very aggravating when trying to control a light locomotive. Can't find a way to permanently disable DCC control either, or change the default to 'Realistic Mode'. Mouse input is noticeably laggy and is internally accelerated by the game engine, which is annoying to no end for someone who disabled that "feature" at the operating system level well over a decade ago. No camera sway or cab rocking/tilt - which is a small nit to pick, but one that has a very big impact on the overall experience.

All in all my impression is that the software feels more like it's tailored towards model railroaders and trackside railfans who like to look on and take pictures from afar (no offense) rather than one that is intended to provide an accurate & realistic experience of sitting in the big seat. Aside from some of the visuals and in-game DLC features, it really doesn't seem like a whole lot has changed with the core of this product over the past decade and a half. More like a little bit of feature creep welded on to the same tired old Y2K-era undercarriage. The subscription price and the marketing on the store page make it out to be a real primo, curated experience, but so far I'm just not seeing that. Being able to access all of the content without running into paywalls and being able to support continued R&D is nice, but the question is; Aside from visuals, exactly what R&D has been going on over the past decade, and what does that precedent speak of for the future?


Props for the modelling and texturing of the RMRX GP40 cab interior though, definitely points awarded for that. I just wish the rest of the experience was built to the same standard...
Click to expand...
The sim is obviously not up to your exacting standards ,my advice is that you go find another with all the features you require , if such a beast exists ,as trainz is not really what you want , it's much more useful for creating routes than realistically running trains for hours.
 
Last edited:
dangavel said:
The sim is obviously not up to your exacting standards ,my advice is that you go find another with all the features you require , if such a beast exists ,as trainz is not really what you want , it's much more useful for creating routes than realistically running trains for hours.
Click to expand...

Run8 V3 is my go-to at the moment, though that one has it's share of limitations as well. Hence the reason I'm shopping around to see if there are any other offerings that can top it.


Never stop pushing the envelope.
 
Last edited:
Test Track allows you to edit all the engine parameters. If you'd like to take a look at making the appropriate adjustments then it should perform as you expect.

2023-01-11_091855.jpg

2023-01-11_091905.jpg
 
P10B said:
Run8 V3 is my go-to at the moment, though that one has it's share of limitations as well. Hence the reason I'm shopping around to see if there are any other offerings that can top it.


Never stop pushing the envelope.
Click to expand...

I tend to think of Trainz as a framework. Most content is end user created so the quality may vary however it does mean you get one of the richest collections of assets available anywhere including barges and operating locks.

I does allow you to modify content, drop in new sound files, engine configs etc.

If you want something specific, prepackaged that runs 4K on a high end machine you might do better to look elsewhere. Most Trainz users and content creators have less powerful GPUs than an RTX 3090ti but if you want to create a layout then Trainz is a very good place to start.

Cheerio John
 
P10B said:
All in all my impression is that the software feels more like it's tailored towards model railroaders and trackside railfans who like to look on and take pictures from afar (no offense) rather than one that is intended to provide an accurate & realistic experience of sitting in the big seat. Aside from some of the visuals and in-game DLC features, it really doesn't seem like a whole lot has changed with the core of this product over the past decade and a half. More like a little bit of feature creep welded on to the same tired old Y2K-era undercarriage. The subscription price and the marketing on the store page make it out to be a real primo, curated experience, but so far I'm just not seeing that. Being able to access all of the content without running into paywalls and being able to support continued R&D is nice, but the question is; Aside from visuals, exactly what R&D has been going on over the past decade, and what does that precedent speak of for the future?
Click to expand...

Respectfully,

I don't think Trainz is what you're looking for. Trainz has never been (and probably never will be) the best in-cab driving experience. That's just not what the program is designed to do. Trainz really shines when used far more akin to how one would build and operate a model railroad - just at full scale (and virtual, obviously). A lot of the other sims don't really allow for this type of freeform "play" - Run8 doesn't, TSW doesn't, etc. Those competitors focus on the actual driving experience and I think it's no real secret that they do it better than Trainz - simply by virtue of being focused on that, while Trainz is something else entirely.
 
I've always maintained that Trainz is a model railroad simulator, a simulator of a simulation repleat with its own compromises.

If you know the games origins its hardly a surprise (and I think spelling "Trains" with an Z should also be a clue honestly) and that's what I love about it. I dont have the money or the space to so much as put a loop under the Christmas tree, let alone have an actual model railroad IRL. This game gives me that.

That said, there are definitely some parts that have been left too long without attention - sound being one of them - but even if yhe above listed issues are truth at their core the whole candor of the post as written is trollish and rude.
 
What I've seen of Run 8, Good:
-rain on cab windows
-unity in interfaces and smart use of the topbar (no its not polish)
-no PBR artifacts in cabs
-consist interface
-derail seems fun but very limited
Not good:
-skies look dull
-no turfx
-scenery looks dull
-train models/routes only US, only no design box locos
-ugly red selection (like the ugly green S2 selection in trainz)
-Not open/easy to add your own models
-No easy route/session building like Trainz


Trainz though not perfect wins easy !!
btw. I also watched a few Zusi3 videos and almost fell asleep


The Power of Trainz is and will always be the great community
1000's that create daily, no trainsim can and will beat that, EVER.


I am known as a very critic user that can maybe drive developers crazy,
but whenever I detect something, I don't only criticize but act and just improve it for myself (or others)
that's another power of Trainz, it's an open system that you can finetune all you want.


greetings from a Trainz fan :)
 
frogpipe said:
Even if yhe above listed issues are truth at their core the whole candor of the post as written is trollish and rude.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well I've never had much luck getting along with other people and realistically that's not likely to change if it hasn't already this late in the game. My talents are technical in nature, not social. I don't pull any punches when I see something that's not right. If it's wrong, it's wrong - no matter if feelings get hurt in the process of pointing it out. So... don't confuse my bluntness & candor for malice.

Understand also that these opinions come from the perspective of someone who has opportunities to play with the real McCoy more or less at will in his free time. That means any inaccuracies in a computer simulation attempting to imitate something I've had first-hand, real-world experience with are going to be immediately obvious and smack as erroneous. It also means that the proverbial bar is naturally set quite high in order for the opportunity costs of playing with a simulation (namely time - and lots of it) to outweigh the benefits of spending that same time doing it for real. (Or any other more productive and/or tangible pass-time for that matter.)

With all that said, I think everything that was in need of discussion here has been satisfactorily touched on and put to bed. I think I will take some of the other commenters' advice and move on in my ongoing search for greener pastures, as it seems I'm simply not part of the particular niche that this software is aimed at.

No hard feelings, peace out, live long and prosper... all that fun stuff.

:wave:
 
Last edited:
P10B said:
Yeah, well I've never had much luck getting along with other people and realistically that's not likely to change if it hasn't already this late in the game.
Click to expand...

For the most part, Trainz is a library of user created content. As such each asset is what it is. Some are packaged nicely, others not so much. The previous vendor (Auran) deprecated a lot of assets especially one's with progressive meshes.

N3V are not the arbiters of their customers art. There is a suggestion thread, you might find useful rather than complaining about the quality of the food at a carnival or stadium. Are you aghast they serve hot dogs and nachos when they could sell perfectly garnished caviar and creme broule?
 
P10B said:
Understand also that these opinions come from the perspective of someone who has opportunities to play with the real McCoy more or less at will in his free time. That means any inaccuracies in a computer simulation attempting to imitate something I've had first-hand, real-world experience with are going to be immediately obvious and smack as erroneous. It also means that the proverbial bar is naturally set quite high in order for the opportunity costs of playing with a simulation (namely time - and lots of it) to outweigh the benefits of spending that same time doing it for real. (Or any other more productive and/or tangible pass-time for that matter.)
Click to expand...

I'd just like to point out, that even in this day & age it is technically impossible to have a 100% realistic simulation of something as complex as a locomotive. Computers just don't have the realtime power to do the complex mathematics required for full proper physics simulations.

peter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Trainz 2019 Continuously Crashing without warning. Starting to become problematic.
2
Replies
21
Views
824
JCitron
J
J
I found the cutest steam locomotive on K&L Trainz.
Replies
3
Views
804
JCitron
J
J
An Open Letter to N3V
9 10 11
Replies
212
Views
20K
boleyd
B
S
TRS22 is fine
2
Replies
22
Views
2K
SRKing783
S
T
Trainz Plus 116912 ready for testing
4 5 6
Replies
111
Views
8K
Sanek17
S
Back
Top