TRS22 Vs TRS19 - Honest Opinions Please?

So I see that Trainz 2022 has attracted a fairly meagre discount of 20% off in the Steam Winter Sale - still costing £44.00.

As someone primarily interested in route/layout building and not driving the built in routes, are there any significant differences over '19 so far as the route building process from those who are familiar with both could comment on, to warrant putting out that kind of money? Especially as Surveyor 2.0 is still not bundled with the standalone version. Not sure what the intentions are regarding further developments such as finer terrain mesh. We could quite possibly be looking an another iteration of the game in a year or two's time, TRS2024 or TRS2025 to incorporate those.

I'm also assuming not much changed regarding the driving experience - no timetable operation, player's having to set their own routes and a large percentage of locos and rolling stock still running with outdated cabs and/or sounds.

Part of me wants to upgrade and I don't begrudge N3V a little bit of revenue as the program does satisfy a creative corner in my mind, but equally £42 could buy me quite a bit of content in the same sale for TSC or TSW. (Or go towards SimRail when it releases in January).

Or I could wait for Easter and see if N3V push a slightly better discount.

NB: Just to clarify, I still have no interest getting into the Netflix subscription style scheme.

I await the responses with interest.

I was in the same frame of mind until realising that I did not require the new Surveyor.
Reason being that I already had my route constructed, still work in progress after commencing with TRS2004
Yes there remains a lot of scene work to cary out, which I do probably once a week, the remaining attention being given to adding schedules.
I am now totally coverted to TRS2022.

I think the trend is going to be a lot of people going to TRS2022. Twice now, I have been burned trying to download nice routes into TRS2019, but anything above 5.1 version simply will not download.

Hi Vern,

The big difference for you is going to be the Unified Driver Surveyor interface. Basically, it lets you flip back and forth between surveyor and driver without losing your place in surveyor. Let's say you are working on your route and you want to see how it looks in driver. You choose Drive Session from the menu and you are instantly in Driver at that spot and can looks around, add a loco and tour the route. If you spot something that needs fixing or adjusting then pop back in surveyor and you are at the exact spot and ready to make changes. When done just flip back to driver and keep checking for more things that need fixing. This really speeds up route development in my opinion. Now you DON'T want to try and create a session this way as if you save the session after flipping back and forth a few times your session is saved at that point, not at the beginning. Create sessions the old fashion way. Setup in surveyor and save and exit. Test the session in Driver.

But this does make running sessions more interesting. In the past you couldn't edit saved game files. With the UDS, you can save an editable session by flipping to surveyor to save the session. This allows the model railroad style of operating sessions where you run the route for a while before ending the session. Then later you come back and pick up where you left off but you can make changes before restarting the session. This is great for running long continuous operating session over days or weeks.

Oh, you also have access to MPS for building routes with your friends. Although you are not yet able to start your own route and invite your friends to edit it. You're still limited to expanding one of the two N3V created MPS routes and working on your expansion with your friends.

Other than better graphics IMHO and slightly better performance, Driver is pretty much the same.

There's a 20% Discount Code in the last N3V Newsletter, guess that's the same as from Steam though.
I like TRS22 and also have TrainzPlus with Surveyor 2, which is still at this time optional so you can continue route building as in TRS19, which is actually where I'm still working on my L&B WIP, just importing into TRS22 and Trainz Plus to check if any problems, so far haven't found anything! Vanilla TRS22 is basically a slightly better IMO version of TRS19.

Okay thanks guys. i think an upgrade is inevitable at some point, maybe I'll just wait and see if an extra discount creeps in next year.

@wreeder, the driver surveyor UDS interface is also available on TRS19 SP5.

@vern. I made the plunge and bought the discounted TS22 a few days ago. First impressions...Slightly better performance. Graphics, about the same. Some new rollingstock, which is always welcome, though regarding British rollingstock, the choice of liveries is extremely limited. Interiors are up to scratch
Schwaninger layout already available as freeware as is Looe to Liskeard (Part of Marky's huge Cornwall layout). The Russian Beloreck - South Ural Maountains looks to be interesting and a healthy length on which to drive.
Be prepared to fix many an asset that do not have correct texture files (I have converted a few hundred already using Pevsoft's Images to TGA app) I expect to convert many hundreds maybe thousands more, in future when porting more kuids. Also if any of your ported assets are contained in payware from the past, you cannot fix the broken assets. You will have to purchase or re download purchased payware to install broken stuff that will work.
(I thought it illegal for N3v to include freeware items into payware layouts? Was not CRG set up to re-distribute the freeware to cancel the stuff that was included in payware layouts?)

Anyways, is it worth upgrading for that 20% discount? Nope. The discount should have been somewhere in the region of 50 - 75%. There are no big ticket items in the new program that would make it more attractive. So it is a very small incremental upgrade. Not worth the large investment, unless of course there were a hefty discount. Stay put as you intend. Unless you are on a high income and can afford to throw money around. I can't but then I am and will remain an addict. Regards.

Latest retail version:

• New tzarc storage has been implemented
  • Upto 50% reduction for on disk storage
  • Improvement for load times for slower drives & asset heavy routes
  • Smaller file size also leads to potential framerate improvements (depending on hardware and route configuration)

• Added support for XAudio2 (Windows) which replaces OpenAL on Windows platforms.
  • This should resolve a rare crash in OpenAL on some systems.
  • More depth and improve spatial sound effects

Click to expand...

so under the hood improvements have been made. Nice to have reduction in storage space usage with build 119119.

Vern said:

As someone primarily interested in route/layout building and not driving the built in routes, are there any significant differences over '19 so far as the route building process from those who are familiar with both could comment on, to warrant putting out that kind of money? Especially as Surveyor 2.0 is still not bundled with the standalone version.

Click to expand...

Hi Vern,

As far as route building goes there is no advantage by upgrading to TRS2022 standalone. There are features in S2.0 you would find very useful but as you know that is only available in T+ and even then it is still in beta after a whole year! The S2.0 interface sucks and you lose quite a bit of useable screen with all the palettes. That said, I do all my work in S2.0 and put up with faults (for now).

Stick with 19.

John

bolivar said:

@wreeder, the driver surveyor UDS interface is also available on TRS19 SP5.

Click to expand...

That is true only if you have TRS19 Platinum as you and I do but Vern's timeline shows he has TRS19 Standard that upgrades to SP5 without the UDS. Oddly, I have both versions installed and when I bought TRS19 Platinum from the Trainz Store two Christmases ago, it added all the platinum only features to my TRS19 Standard version that I had purchased from Steam. It is my understanding that at the time what features showed was dependent on your User Name and some features were activated base on which products you own. Apparently, this practice led to much confusion in the community so N3V changed the system to compile separate builds as has been done in the past. TRS19 SP5 was the only build produced this way for the TRS19 line so my TRS19 Standard version from Steam reverted back and loss all of the Platinum only features when it upgraded to SP5.

Thanks for the further advice. After further consideration, yes got to take the view it's not worth the outlay for the use it's going to get, compared to continuing to work in TRS19.
As I said, maybe 2023 will bring a RRP reduction which would mean a better reflection on sale. £25 to £30 seems a fairer price for what's on offer and I probably said that back when it was released!

bolivar said:

Was not CRG set up to re-distribute the freeware to cancel the stuff that was included in payware layouts?)

Click to expand...

No the CRG was set up to repair or attempt to repair faulty assets that are on the DLS.
N3V (Post somewhere by Zec) Undertook to ensure Assets that had been updated for Payware packaged DLC were also put on the DLS. Sometimes a prod at the help desk is necessary though. CRG can only access Items that are on the DLS and the Repair list not packaged or payware items.

Personally if anything of mine gets affected I just up-version it and put on DLS. Obviously that isn't practical if the Creator is no longer active in Trainz or only has old versions etc.

Vern get TRS22 and stop being such a big girl :hehe:

Preferably from N3V direct buddy.

Mike.

I think it is likely there will be a TRS22 Platinum edition as some point this year that will include Surveyor 2.0 and at that time the price for TRS22 will be dropped or at least see bigger discounts when on sale. S2.0 is mostly complete as far as 5m and 10m grid work is concerned. From a business standpoint this makes sense as it will bring in a flood of cash and also focus on Trainz Plus as the place to get HD terrain and TLR.

@clam1952 Thanks for clearing that up. I have found about a hundred assets that are freeware but cannot be fixed because they are payware. I expect to find many more as I port over assets from 19 to 22. This is not and should not have occurred. I have checked the config files and most clearly state that the asset is not to be included in any payware layout.

@wreeder. Yes I suspect that N3V are planning to release S2.0 in future , to be included in their next iteration.
@vern. Stick to your guns, matey. The price of 22 will drop in the next year or so. As it is now, not worth it. I don t think you are a big girl...LOL. Some of us do need to count our pennies and prefer value for money. Spend in a more sensible manner. Having said that, I just spent my money very unwisely....:udrool:

Vern --

My tuppence worth.

Like you I'm mainly interested in route and session creation.

I do most of my work in TRS19.
I have mixed views about Surveyor 20. It is more powerful, it adds some useful features but also complications, and it is not as intuitive as the original surveyor.
TurfFX and Clutter Effects are much better implemented in TRS22. Both of these are the way forward but they are much harder to use in TRS19.
After confusing sessions and routes and making changes to one that I did not want to retain, I try to avoid the Unified Driver Surveyor.

But for the new purchaser, TRS22 must be the choice -- because anything constructed in TRS22 is not backward compatible.
If you want some of the latest routes, locomotives, rolling stock, structures, textures, ... you have to have 22.

Phil

My 2c worth.

I am also mostly interested in route and session creation.

I do all of my work in Trainz Plus.

I am loving Surveyor 2.0. As Phil states above, it is more powerful with more useful features but with power comes complications. After 20+ years of using Surveyor Classic you develop some habits that are hard to break and when moving from one user interface to another there will always be issues of intuition, frustration and a learning curve - I could give many examples of that process in other software products where I have experienced the "neophobia" of change.

Surveyor 2.0 is still a WIP and there are some things it still lacks - many of the keyboard shortcuts that I have always used in Classic for example - with the result that there are still some things that I switch back into Classic to do but as my experience with S20 grows that list is slowly getting shorter.

I also love the UDS (TRS19 PE and above) and use it frequently but it does take some care and common sense.

For a new purchaser, particularly if you are moving from TRS19 (standard) and below, TRS22 is a clear winner. From TRS19 Platinum it is still a winner in my view but the benefits are, possibly, not as great as from TRS19 (standard).

My views.

Peter

I am of the exact same opinion as philskene. I too avoid the UDS in my platinum 19 edition after using it for awhile in building my 120 mile route which I am enjoying. However, after driving Simrail everyday for the last 3 weeks and thoroughly enjoying the realism graphics and multiplayer interaction I am sitting tight for awhile on upgrading to TRS22 until the product landscape choices in the market become more clear.

bolivar said:

... I have found about a hundred assets that are freeware but cannot be fixed because they are payware. ... This is not and should not have occurred. I have checked the config files and most clearly state that the asset is not to be included in any payware layout.
..:

Click to expand...

I think that they get round this by including the assets for free in a package in which you only pay for the base game. There not being a classification for the included-but-free assets other than "payware".

Thanks David. Unfortunately I have not found this to be the case. I have most iterations of the game other than the subscription types. I still have issues whereby freeware assets are included in payware routes. Some go as far back as CO Hinton and ECML routes from TANE. I do have those routes but do not wish to download them again simply for the sake of a few items. I am trying to keep TS22 uncluttered without payware routes. I am only using TS22 for my own routes.
It has always annoyed me that N3V and its predecessor, Auran , include faulty assets in their built in routes allowing them to operate within the game, but dis-allow other assets with those very same errors from being used , unless they are manually fixed. I understand why but it is not a very user friendly way to go.