Survey: Should I Change A Currently Existing Livery If I Change The Company Name?

I made a fictional railroad that went by one name in 1988 for my HO scale trains. I wrote a fictional history aka backstory on the company to say that it had existed since 1888 which went under a different name until 1970. After that it went under another title until 2023 when I decided to have the RR go back to its original Pre-1970 name. The management is the same, but the company is going back to its roots with the original name is had upon its 1888 inception.

I plan to do patch-jobs for the DLS with the new name on the long-hood with the former name in fine print under the loco numbers on the cab sides. Yet I was wondering if I should incorporate a new livery for new engines and rolling stock, or if I should just keep the color as before. I was thinking of going back to the pre-1970 colors but with a 21st century feel to it, or to just keep the same colors as they are. Some say, when it comes to new engines and new rolling stock, that the RR company shouldn't continue on with the same colors (from the 1970 to the 2022 eras of the company's former name before the change back) but should either return to it's older paint-jobs before that or introduce a whole new color/ livery.

From the literal perspective, from 1988 to 1994 the company had Blood Orange/Yellow Stencils on my HO Scale railroad layout. However, I added a fictional history to this by having the RR begin this paintscheme in 1970 when it changed its name. From 1994 to 2014 the RR had Cascade Green/White Stencils. Then in 2014 until this year, so far, the company went back to its Blood Orange/Yellow Stencil livery with a bit of a 21st Century tweak to it. Now that I was thinking of having the fictional corporation go back to it's Pre-1970 name (it had from 1888 to 1970 even though a full transition to the name on the equipment didn't transpire until 1988), I was wondering if this should require a new livery and color code or if it can just continue in the Blood Orange/Yellow Stencil scheme.

The Pre-1970 scheme, before the name change consisted of Red locos with Black cabs, White stencils and Silver trucks/fuel tank. A newer 2023 version of this would change the White stencils to Yellow. The rolling stock was Red or Black. Cabooses were Red, Silver and White which, if done in 2023, would change to Yellow.

So despite doing patch-jobs, should newer locos and rolling stock go to a new identity paintscheme since the RR is going back to its original name the company had before 1970? Or, can the RR continue onward with it's current Blood Orange paintscheme when it comes to "new paint-jobs" for new engines/rolling stock but with the a different name (the Pre-1970 title)?

Thoughts anyone? I heard some opinions I stated including a couple PM's. I'd like to see what the general consensus of a bunch of guys here may point to and why.

Sincerely,

RR70

Seriously? No comments?

I would say take a couple of models and paint them up to see if the new scheme idea actually works first.

Since no-one else has bitten, I will offer my unworthy opinions.

If it is for your own personal use then there is nothing stopping you from painting it pink with purple polka-dots. And since it is Christmas, add reindeer antlers.

There are always the purists or "rivet counters" who will point out the inaccuracies in anything you create but loco liveries change as often as the whims of the railroad marketing department (after all what else do they have to do?). So nothing is really beyond the bounds of possibility except limited by the repainting costs and that is where the railroad accounting department earns its keep, and its unpopularity.

I rarely, if ever, give any thought to the liveries displayed on locos and rolling stock. After-all I have ridden in a commuter train painted to look like a zoo. What did that make its passengers look like?

If it is for your own personal use then do your own thing.

[/IMG]

So there are a few different considerations to take in mind here.

As a graphic designer, I would encourage you to be creative & make your own liveries. That being said, many smaller railroads run patch jobs.

The other thing to consider is that if you are planning on releasing your reskins; you may have issues if all you did was patch it. Some creators would consider patching not enough of a change and may deny you release permission.

peter

PerRock said:

So there are a few different considerations to take in mind here.

As a graphic designer, I would encourage you to be creative & make your own liveries. That being said, many smaller railroads run patch jobs.

The other thing to consider is that if you are planning on releasing your reskins; you may have issues if all you did was patch it. Some creators would consider patching not enough of a change and may deny you release permission.

peter

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Let me explain the layout for my fictional Class 1 Railroad so you can see what I'm getting at:

1888: CCR (Canadian Continental Railroad) is created.

1888-1910: Black engines/white stencils.

1910-1940: Dark Reddish/Maroon aka Black Cherry locos with White/Red stencils/Black trucks.

1940-1970: Red locos, Black cabs, White stencils, Silver trucks.

1970-1994: CCR changes name to Global Motive with Blood Orange locos and Yellow stencils with Black trucks.

1992-2002: Company tweaks name from GM to OGM (Objective Global Motive).

1994-2014: Color changed to Cascade Green, White stencils and Black trucks.

2002-2023: Company changes name to OGH (Objective Global Heritage) which runs up to 2023.

2014-: Color changed from Cascade Green back to Retro 70's Blood Orange Livery with 21st tweak to it.

So now I'm at the situation since I decided to have the fictional Class 1 RR of mine (which has some stock already on the DLS) go back to its roots by returning to the CCR name, this is where I ask if you think it should just keep the current Blood Orange Paintscheme it re-implemented in 2014 (back when it was still OGH) or the company should just create a whole new identity with the CCR name it goes back to. I know in reality it's my company, but I'm trying to think outside of the box and imagine this RR like an actual Class 1 railway.

- RR70

C_Blabsky said:

[/IMG]

Click to expand...

LOL! Now that's hilarious. Thanks for this one. Made my day actually.

- RR70

pware said:

Since no-one else has bitten, I will offer my unworthy opinions.

If it is for your own personal use then there is nothing stopping you from painting it pink with purple polka-dots. And since it is Christmas, add reindeer antlers.

There are always the purists or "rivet counters" who will point out the inaccuracies in anything you create but loco liveries change as often as the whims of the railroad marketing department (after all what else do they have to do?). So nothing is really beyond the bounds of possibility except limited by the repainting costs and that is where the railroad accounting department earns its keep, and its unpopularity.

I rarely, if ever, give any thought to the liveries displayed on locos and rolling stock. After-all I have ridden in a commuter train painted to look like a zoo. What did that make its passengers look like?

If it is for your own personal use then do your own thing.

Click to expand...

Some goods points expressed here. Thanks for your input on this. Interesting statements on the railway marketing team. Makes sense. Some of the stock I reskinned is stock I was given permission to reskin and release onto the DLS.

- RR70

flyboy559 said:

I would say take a couple of models and paint them up to see if the new scheme idea actually works first.

Click to expand...

Good plan. Already working on some Trainz assets to do some tests. Thanks for your insight.

- RR70

If I have the company change to a different identity paintscheme I may use a livery the RR had from 1940 to 1970. Below is a Phase II Heritage scheme (21st century tweaking). Phase I has white stencils.





- RR70

RR70, glad you liked the joke. On topic, don't forget this is an opportunity to create "Commemorative Heritage" liveries, complete with years and time periods emblazoned across the loco.

You could have CCR be a subsidiary of its parent company OGH. Then have whatever scheme you want and just change the lettering to what railroad you want. Like what happened with Union Pacific and Missouri Pacific. You have the MP locos in the same paint as UP but with there RR reporting and name on the sides.

hert said:

You could have CCR be a subsidiary of its parent company OGH. Then have whatever scheme you want and just change the lettering to what railroad you want. Like what happened with Union Pacific and Missouri Pacific. You have the MP locos in the same paint as UP but with there RR reporting and name on the sides.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. Extra inputs are always good and I know what you mean, but the OGH is the exact same company that CCR name was. All it did was just change its name in 1970 when it bought out an American railroad. So after 52 years the company decided to go back to it's original name of CCR. So that's why I was wondering if I should keep the OGH Blood Orange paintscheme the same but to replace the OGH initials with CCR (known as patch-jobs) on just do a new color scheme for newer assets I reskin. One content creator suggested that I clone the OGH assets, do CCR patch-jobs with those and when I do newer assets (like fresh paint-jobs) then to do a different color scheme/livery altogether.

Take Canadian Pacific for example. I know this example doesn't totally compare in the same way but is somewhat similar. Canadian Pacific (original name) in 1886. Decades later it changed to CP Ltd. because it extended itself to airlines, ships, hotels and trucking in addition to its original premise of rail. Then in the 1990's it sold its airline, then its ships, then its trucks and then its hotels. In addition the company's logo, the Multimark aka Pac Man was sold in 1989 and no longer used. I know this part as I started working for CP in 1990 and inquired why some of the locos had no Pac Man. So eventually CP just went back to its roots in the late 1990's and called itself Canadian Pacific. However the shade of Red it had from 1968 to 1993 (Action Red) was eventually changed to a more solid Candyapple Red shade it has used ever since (a shade of Red I never partially care for but I digress). From 1993 to 1997 it used CP Rail System and then went back to its original name of Canadian Pacific with Tech Font lettering and a golden shield with the beaver.

I suppose, despite the CCR patch-jobs on OGH stock, I could maybe keep the Blood Orange but do a bit of a different style of stencils on it, or maybe do a paint-scheme where there's Blood Orange engines with Maroon cabs or something that differentiates the OGH Blood Orange paintscheme with a CCR Blood Orange paintscheme. Maybe that might work.

- RR70

PS: Below is the OGH Blood Orange paintscheme that began to go back to a Retro-styled striping system it had in the 1970's and 80's to early 90's.





Here is how the patch-jobs will appear to explain the transition from the OGH title back to its predecessor CCR.



And this is how they'll look if I just decide to keep the Blood Orange Livery as-is but with the CCR name. I did two font experiments. One of them is Impact Italics but the consensus seems to point to the more narrow straight lettering.

C_Blabsky said:

RR70, glad you liked the joke. On topic, don't forget this is an opportunity to create "Commemorative Heritage" liveries, complete with years and time periods emblazoned across the loco.

Click to expand...

Yep, way ahead of you. Already working on those. One of them is the Red, Black & Chrome Livery you see in one of my posts above. Whether I have the company keep it as a Heritage or to have it go back to that paintscheme like what KCS and BN did when it became BNSF is something I have yet to figure out in 2023. I was thinking of having the CCR (formerly OGH) maybe go back to it's Pre-1940 colors of Black Cherry (Dark Maroon/Dark Oxide Red) with White & Red lettering is something I also considered for 2023. I did a couple Heritage Units in that scheme as well (a Phase I Heritage for the original & a Phase II version for the 21st Century).