Extremely Frustrated

I have used Malc's (Clam1952) method for years and my end results have always been successful.

I also ensure that my content is always up to date, not faulty, and not missing dependencies with routes being an exception, and in those cases, the routes are missing a non-critical asset such as a tree or building that can easily be replaced once the route is cloned if I want to at a later date.

But anyway, if this built-in asset is missing, I highly recommend installing any and all DLC from the Content Store and then install any and all updates for the content. Once installed, delete the obsolete assets. If there's anything left that's missing, then it needs to be looked at in more detail.
 
I understand what you are saying and yes, there can be a lot of confusion/frustration in Trainz, more than perhaps there should be.

Now I do not have a very broad experience with video games, but to me the big plus in Trainz is its community involvement. How many simulation games are there that allow ordinary users (not computer geeks/nerds/programmers/etc) to create content for the platform? I am certain that there would be others but from what I have heard the creation experience is often not great. They can be great at running, trouble-free, worlds or whatever that have been created by the programmers or those creators who are in the "inner circle" but not by the average "Casey Jones" user.

The fact that I can easily create my own complete and complex railway worlds is the "wow factor" that keeps me with Trainz, and keeps me updating whenever a new version is released.

I doubt that I will ever master Blender (no matter how many times others tell me it is easy) so I happily restrict myself to creating assets that are not 3D.

From your timeline you were not around in the early days of Trainz (1.3, TRS2004, TRS2006 and arguably upto and including TS2010 and even TS12) when there was a lot of very "sloppily created" content from users who did not follow the rules (as slack or "forgiving" as the content creation rules often were in the early days). These assets, enthusiastically and generously uploaded to the DLS (and I am not knocking those creators) caused a lot of problems, far worse (IMHO) than we see today.

I don't see any confusion over purchases. I will admit that I was initially confused after purchasing the subscription and finding that my TRS19 Platinum Edition was suddenly renamed Trainz Plus on the top of the screen window without any download, and more recently, renamed to TRS22. But that conclusion was quickly cleared up.

The latest newsletter contains information about a simplification of the types of memberships and purchases that can be made.

As you noted, the community of users is one of the greatest strengths and assets (not on the DLS) of Trainz.

My opinions.
I used 2010, I used the first Mac edition, it had its flaws, but those were the days where the game actually came with a manual of sorts , you bought the game and it more or less worked, my biggest problem than was its slowness( more a problem due to my macs cruddy graphics card than the content .
Trainz has never been an easy item to master , but nv3 could do a lot more to make it a simpler experience for new users , as we now have several major changes that have made things more complex , such as thousands of transparent trees which are more or less useless , far more missing items in routes and more things to go wrong. A very basic problem is saving , how many times have we heard people complain about losing work when it's been saved to a session and not a route? , most software would avoid this very basic issue in the first place or would have by now provided a fix, but this problem has persisted for as long as I've been using trainz , and it's an example of how new users can be presented with a confusing start , how many get put off and never return ? I've made four routes so far and almost every one has had major corruption problems that could have led me to abandon them if I gave up easily , it's only because I'm a persistent so and so that I've continued with the app, I'm sure many others have just thrown up their hands and walked away due to frustration .
 
I used 2010, I used the first Mac edition, it had its flaws, but those were the days where the game actually came with a manual of sorts
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https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/ Covers a lot of stuff now.

I have never lost anything when editing a route as I always go for Edit Route and save route but Do not save session when finished, actually several times when route editing and yes you can still test things in a session in driver however always go back to surveyor and stick to save route without session.

If for example you run a test switching from surveyor to driver and ned to say move a tree, go back to surveyor without saving and fix it in the route.
 
Like Malc, I have never lost anything when saving routes, with and without sessions.

Sessions have been one of the best, in my opinion, features of Trainz. The freedom to create a single route and then set up an unlimited series of completely different scenarios (sessions) based on that route has been an enormous benefit to creators.

Yes, there is a learning curve, But there are a few simple rules to follow:-


  1. If you load and edit the route (not the session) then do not save a session, unless you are creating a brand new session.
  2. If you load a session then save both the route and the session.
  3. When you first save a session, give it a meaningful name (not "Default").

As an experienced author of traditional technology books (or "manuals" if you like) I can confirm that they are not a useful means of communicating with your audience. For a start they are obsolete even before they are released and are difficult to update - this also applies to the digital (e.g. "PDF") versions. Web based documents, including Wikis, are much quicker and easier to update but are still not perfect. But it must be said that N3V could do a better job at updating the Trainz Wiki or, if they are updating it, making it easier to find the information users need in a format that is "readable" to non-programmers. Those last points, "making it easier to find" and "readability" are problems common to everything on the Internet and there are no easy solutions.
 
https://contentcreation.trainzsimulator.com/ Covers a lot of stuff now.

I have never lost anything when editing a route as I always go for Edit Route and save route but Do not save session when finished, actually several times when route editing and yes you can still test things in a session in driver however always go back to surveyor and stick to save route without session.

If for example you run a test switching from surveyor to driver and ned to say move a tree, go back to surveyor without saving and fix it in the route.
I also follow those procedures, but it would be better if a pop up appeared that stated in VERY bold lettering that if you continue this save as a session you will lose any work that you wished to save as part of the route, what appears at the moment doesn't sufficiently spell out the consequences to a new user .

Now I stuffed up once as I saved a lot of items onto the my data drive by mistake , there wasn't enough space left on my drive to save the route I was working on and when I went to save , the program froze , when I restarted the route appeared to be ok, but later on , i found that about 40 boards had lost all their content and the only thing left was the DEM outlines, when I went to look at that part of the route, all the boards were blank. This situation was my fault, but other software I have actually tells me that there isn't enough room left to save my work and that I should delete items in order to be able to create enough space to save the project .

This is a very simple solution and I doubt its a complex operation to add that feature, the problem is , NV3 is under the pump regarding staff, and they simply do not have time or people in order to sort out all the issues ( although for some reason they have the ability and time to change some basic things which were working perfectly before such as the undo functions, ). its sad this is the case and it says something as to the degree of how loyal most of us are, we put up with it because we love making this stuff, but it does take a toll on me at least when I'm feeling tired or depressed, as what should be fun is often anything but !
I think it would not be beyond NV3s capability to actually add a troubleshooting menu to the interface where new users could find solutions to common problems, especially relating to DLS issues and missing kuids but I'm not holding my breath about that ever eventuating.
 
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Thanks everyone for the continued help... this is very helpful and I want you all to know that. I think the moist frustrating thing about this is I am VERY familiar with simulators. The first one I ever had was Flight Simulator on an old Commodore 64 way back in the day. I have upgraded each one except for the last one as I finally switched back to a Mac from a PC and FS is not on the Mac. What is frustrating is FS was so well documented and flying was the hardest part, not getting the program to actually work. In the 40+ years of using FS, I never had the issues that I have with TRS and content. You download something off of Flightsim.com, and it had everything you need to make it work. No going out and having to search for everything.

Thank you for the explanation of the "Available for..." meanings. So what do you do when you have a bunch of "unknown asset" items or items that say "Unknown Location" (Swaying script library - kuid2:124060:60046:3).

Malc... you say to se the offline installer, and as far as I know, that is all there is. When I install on a Mac, I just have a 10gb file that I install from. I do database repairs all the time (you really shouldn't have to as the software should to this itself, but apparently it doesn't do what should be obvious). I've worked in software development for my entire career, so that is why this really frustrates me.

One question I would like to ask is how do I back everything that I have up so if I have to reinstall, I can go local to my NAS and pull it back? Is there a way to export all my content? I see import, but I don't see export anywhere.

Okay, one last question... last night I was playing with a route that I downloaded. I added a consist to the route and saved it as a session. When I started it it complained that I didn't have a driver. So I manually added a driver, and then saved it again. I started to drive the train, and it went for a few seconds, and then the driver disappears, and the train starts going backwards and it tells me that I am no longer in control of the train. WTF?
 
One way to backup your data is to copy your data directory/folder to your backup location. You find the data directory in the settings.

This is also how you can have your data directory on an external drive for more space. copy the data directory to the new location, and then tell Trainz where the new location is. Also good for upgrading to new Trainz.

If you ever need to reinstall, point Trainz to a copy of the data folder. Unfortunately it seems to go through the startup script every time, so you have to wait to point to data folder.
 
;Thanks everyone for the continued help... this is very helpful and I want you all to know that. I think the moist frustrating thing about this is I am VERY familiar with simulators. The first one I ever had was Flight Simulator on an old Commodore 64 way back in the day. I have upgraded each one except for the last one as I finally switched back to a Mac from a PC and FS is not on the Mac. What is frustrating is FS was so well documented and flying was the hardest part, not getting the program to actually work. In the 40+ years of using FS, I never had the issues that I have with TRS and content. You download something off of Flightsim.com, and it had everything you need to make it work. No going out and having to search for everything.

Thank you for the explanation of the "Available for..." meanings. So what do you do when you have a bunch of "unknown asset" items or items that say "Unknown Location" (Swaying script library - kuid2:124060:60046:3)."

you get very frustrated, part of to the problem with trainz is that users create almost all of the assets, often some of the dependencies for those assets are not on the DLS , thus "UNKNOWN " its up to you to chase them up or youtry to replace them with other similar assets so they work, its great fun and can take many hours to get an item to work or to find a kuid, even then if you find it, it might not work with the version of trainz you are using .

Okay, one last question... last night I was playing with a route that I downloaded. I added a consist to the route and saved it as a session. When I started it it complained that I didn't have a driver. So I manually added a driver, and then saved it again. I started to drive the train, and it went for a few seconds, and then the driver disappears, and the train starts going backwards and it tells me that I am no longer in control of the train. WTF?
precisely WTF , trainz 2019 is full of these little peccadillos , sp1 will not work for me even if i re-install it on my mac ( environmental controls are stuffed and NV3 no longer supports troubleshooting for that version ) so had to move to sp4 on the pc, just why these things happen is often beyond anyones ken .
 
The Unknown location label can sometimes appear if a later version of an asset has been uploaded to the DLS but the original version was not uploaded or had been removed for some reason (e.g. it had problems that were fixed in a later version or was removed for copyright violations).

Unknown-Location.png

Example: A user creates a new asset, lets say <kuid:1234:5678> but does not upload it. He/she updates the asset, three times, to <kuid2:1234:5678:3> (updates normally follow this kuid code pattern of adding a 2: at the start and an update number, :n, at the end) which is uploaded to the DLS. So the first version to appear on the DLS will have a 2: at the start and a :3 at the end of its kuid value. The original version and the updated :1 and :2 versions will be labelled as "Unknown location".

One technique that often (but not always) works is to do a right mouse click on the asset with the Unknown location label and select List asset versions. You may find that there is a version that is available for download.

There are users who create assets for their own and other web sites and refuse, for a variety of reasons, to put their assets on the DLS. This, of course, is their right but it does mean that anyone who installs a route, session or other asset that uses one of these non-DLS assets then has to hunt for them. Sometimes, but not always, route and session creators will identify where these missing assets can be found. I gave up doing the "missing asset hunt" years ago. Now if I download a route with missing assets then I will either ignore them (if they are non-critical assets such as trees), or find a DLS replacement if possible and there are not too many of these missing assets, or I simply delete the route (and keep the DLS assets it has given me) and move on. This is the "downside" of relying almost entirely on user created assets, but it is far outweighed by the benefits - we get some great assets created by the community for free. As dangavel points out, N3V is a small operation and does not have the staff, time or resources to create everything for us - and I suspect that it would be a very limited offering if they did.

ADDENDUM:

"<kuid2:124060:60046:3> swaying script library" is a Packaged asset (meaning it is part of a DLC package - 1029.tzarc whatever that is) but it does have previous DLS versions labelled "Available for Download, Obsolete" - Obsolete because I have the latest packaged version installed on my system.

<kuid2:124060:60046:2> swaying script library
<kuid2:124060:60046:1> swaying script library
<kuid:124060:60046> swaying script library

You can install any one of the above.
 
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One technique that often (but not always) works is to do a right mouse click on the asset with the Unknown location label and select List asset versions. You may find that there is a version that is available for download.
...

<kuid2:124060:60046:2> swaying script library
<kuid2:124060:60046:1> swaying script library
<kuid:124060:60046> swaying script library

You can install any one of the above.

Okay, so let's say I use this technique, how do I incorporate this item in the route/session/whatever it may be?
 
A Golden set of information. It will take me more than one read to absorb it but it is a fantastic compilation of years of experiences from very talented people. I spent too much time for years with Ham Radio and Flight Simulator before really getting into Trainz. Between time spent using and learning I was always behind the curve. Now later in life, I see that I should have spent more time on ALL aspects of the product, not just those of current interest. It would have allowed me to self-answer many of the questions and problems I have posted. There is a saying - Jack of All Trades, Master of None. That is where you can end up, just getting things to work, but never understanding the underlying WHY.
 
One way to backup your data is to copy your data directory/folder to your backup location. You find the data directory in the settings.

This is also how you can have your data directory on an external drive for more space. copy the data directory to the new location, and then tell Trainz where the new location is. Also good for upgrading to new Trainz.

If you ever need to reinstall, point Trainz to a copy of the data folder. Unfortunately it seems to go through the startup script every time, so you have to wait to point to data folder.

Not sure about Macs but on Windows you can manually add the userdata-redirect-map.txt and point to the correct userdata before installing, stops it creating an unwanted build folder under appdata then.
 
Okay, so let's say I use this technique, how do I incorporate this item in the route/session/whatever it may be?

The asset (and its ancestors) is a script, i.e. program code, so it is not a visible object. It is used by 17 "Train" assets on my system, all of them Packaged so they came as part of a DLC item I installed. I would guess, from its name, that it is used to control the level of swaying shown by the wagons of a train as it travels along the track. So it is a dependency of train assets (locomotives, rolling stock), not routes or sessions.

Unless you are creating rail cars using Blender, 3DMax, etc, or modifying existing ones (for your own personal use, not to upload as that would be a copyright violation) then you would not need to use the asset.
 
Not sure about Macs but on Windows you can manually add the userdata-redirect-map.txt and point to the correct userdata before installing, stops it creating an unwanted build folder under appdata then.
That file isn’t user readable or editable on Macs. I think that it is not readable because storage of paths on Macs required some unreadable formatting. I’ve been playing around and I can read and write user readable paths on the Mac. I haven’t figured out how to read this file in my program yet.
 
What does do a "run around" mean in a scenario? Another undocumented item that I can't seem to find any mention of.

The driver is to uncouple from his consist, take a passing track, and then couple on the opposite end of his train. This is done commonly by passenger trains without a cab car or when pushing freight into sidings.

There is a driver command for that, but it takes some fiddly to get to work. When it does, it works quite well.
 
There is a driver command for that, but it takes some fiddly to get to work. When it does, it works quite well.

Okay, so better to just do it manually then I take it. I tried it in a session and the train just took off to nowhere and it failed the mission. Sort of how I envision those self parallel parking cars might behave.
 
Okay, so better to just do it manually then I take it. I tried it in a session and the train just took off to nowhere and it failed the mission. Sort of how I envision those self parallel parking cars might behave.

Yes, do it manually, it's less frustrating. If you want to use it try this:

If you're in the cab, exit to a free camera view.
Initiate the command.

After the engine uncouples and moves away from the switch and the yellow padlock disappears, CTRL-right click on the engine and choose Stop. Wait about 20 seconds and then CTRL-right click again and choose Resume Schedule.

What this will do is prevent the AI from driving down to the other end of the route before returning again to couple on to run around the consist. You may have to do the CTRL-right click, stop and resume schedule thing again when the loco gets to the other side but most of the time that part works fine.

From what I understand, this has a lot to do with the track layout and the command does work in some conditions, but given the variable nature, I prefer the above method or doing a manual move which honestly, I think is more interesting.

I agree with you on those automatic cars.
 
After the run-around does the session have you "pushing" the consist? If so, I have found that you want to change the "logical" direction of your loco to match the direction you are going. In other words, if you are "pushing" a consist you don't want to be driving your loco using "reverse". Change the logical direction so you are always going "forward" even though your loco might be pointed backward. I've found that signals don't work properly either if you are "pushing" in reverse. Others have verified this after I suggested it.
 
From what I understand, this has a lot to do with the track layout and the command does work in some conditions.

It depends on factors such as the proximity to track junctions (the AI does not like stopping on junctions, even junctions not involved in the "runaround"), the placement of signals and other consists.

The Runaround command can work brilliantly if all the conditions (switches, signals, track) are ideal. A good clear section of track at both ends of the runaround is essential but even then the loco can still take off on a cross country excursion. As John points out, manual is best.

I always maintain that the "I" in "AI" does not stand for "Intelligence" - a problem that is replicated in the real world with real AI systems - automatic parking systems being an example.
 
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