SP5 "upgrade"

My own route started in Trainz04 long ago. it has been upgraded to all the subsequent iterations. Now it works near perfection in 19 (117009). Upgrade to SP5 and it shows 2,469 faulty dependencies in red. Most due to the Texture missing thing. I am able to use PVsoft conversion tool successfully on each asset with this error. But i will not fix 2K+ assets. It is a bad joke. Whatever gains I would get with SP5 are not worth the trouble. Same for 22. It looks like the regular 19 is the end of the line for me unless anyone has a quick solution. Probably this problem has been noted before, but I failed to see it...

There is a batch conversion script for image file conversion process, "X-file type > .tga" that can convert all 2000 in one operation.


Hopefully someone has one for the PEVSOFT TextureTxt conversion as well.



Rico

I am aware that there is such a thing as a batch file for PVsoft. I was never able to make it work even following some old instructions given. Maybe someone knows or can direct me to a more simplistic way to do it. Just doing the converting of one file is tedious and time consuming, and some assets have many files to be converted, making the process quite long.

Do they not understand or not care that " upgrades " break the game !

llebrez said:

My own route started in Trainz04 long ago. it has been upgraded to all the subsequent iterations. Now it works near perfection in 19 (117009). Upgrade to SP5 and it shows 2,469 faulty dependencies in red. Most due to the Texture missing thing. I am able to use PVsoft conversion tool successfully on each asset with this error. But i will not fix 2K+ assets. It is a bad joke. Whatever gains I would get with SP5 are not worth the trouble. Same for 22. It looks like the regular 19 is the end of the line for me unless anyone has a quick solution. Probably this problem has been noted before, but I failed to see it...

Click to expand...

There seems to be growing frustration and I fear that N3V will kill this game with their " upgrades ".

I've been told that if I would just redo the modifications to my favorite route and then re-construct my complicated session in SP5 that everything will be OK and since they have abandoned support for 2019 what I will have is what I will be stuck with!

Instead of that, I decided to try and do all that in 2022 and a couple days ago I ran into a roadblock where they seemed to have made a bunch of Msgsappers assets void till he does something to upgrade them to whatever!!!

I would have been OK with paying the subscription price if they would have left me with a 2019 that works, as it is now, I can't make the slightest change in my session and save without a bunch of track joints breaking !

Wild Willy the Wacko

And, another thing .......

dealing with the new 2022 would not be so bad if I could just take a break from it and enjoy a working 2019 session and that is not happening !!!!!

Willy

llebrez said:

My own route started in Trainz04 long ago. it has been upgraded to all the subsequent iterations. Now it works near perfection in 19 (117009). Upgrade to SP5 and it shows 2,469 faulty dependencies in red. Most due to the Texture missing thing. I am able to use PVsoft conversion tool successfully on each asset with this error. But i will not fix 2K+ assets. It is a bad joke. Whatever gains I would get with SP5 are not worth the trouble. Same for 22. It looks like the regular 19 is the end of the line for me unless anyone has a quick solution. Probably this problem has been noted before, but I failed to see it...

Click to expand...

Stop trying to fix the .texture problems they will be builtin or DLC assets that have some how been overwritten probably by also being in your local data.

Assuming you did a straight upgrade and did nor import into a fresh install, that doesn't sound right for an upgrade, try selecting all the faulty assets, right click revert to original, that may get rid of some of the errors if not all of them.

With Trainz after an upgrade to a new version never trust what you are seeing in content manager as it's invariably giving false information, never start trying to fix anything at this stage, you will make things worse in the long run

What has always worked for me is before attempting to upgrade, run a full Database Repair, that's press Ctrl while clicking Rebuild Database, the full repair gets rids of problems caused by caching as it deletes the cache and duplicated assets located in multiple places as well as rebuilding the database. This usually avoids false errors appearing but not always.

Then run the update, when it's finished however much tempted do not open manage content, do not start Trainz but run a database repair, this is in addition to the one that Trainz does itself which IMO doesn't actually do anything useful.
On completion you can now go to Manage Content.
Check open for edit, anything in there right click revert to original, stuff in open for edit after an upgrade is an indication that you have items in your local data that are now builtins or included in DLC and they will only have .texture files not TGA and Texture.txt, no need to attempt repairing them just revert to original.

Now check for faulty assets:

Try first checking errors and warnings, you can select them all at once for this. It may clear the errors however they may still show incorrectly as faulty, sometimes preview asset will clear the incorrectly showing errors, a bit tedious, or double clicking an asset will often clear it, or open for edit revert to original can be done in bulk similar or probably easier shut down Trainz restart and run a Database repair.

First run of any route after an upgrade will need the assets to be cached, need to wait for this to complete or you will initially have routes with things missing and not working giving the impression your install is broken, normally it isn't, need to wait!

clam1952 said:

-snip-

With Trainz after an upgrade to a new version never trust what you are seeing in content manager as it's invariably giving false information, never start trying to fix anything at this stage, you will make things worse in the long run

-snip-

First run of any route after an upgrade will need the assets to be cached, need to wait for this to complete or you will initially have routes with things missing and not working giving the impression your install is broken, normally it isn't, need to wait!

Click to expand...

That's a great reply. N3V should include this info with every patch/upgrade/beta announcement.

Perhaps N3v could publish this process with every update. It seems reasonable and safe.
Unfortunately, this procedure will be lost to time otherwise.
Or perhaps some searchable flag in the forum that catalogs these needed procedures.
Dick

I was afraid I was the only one.... but no, now I am sure it is a prevalent problem. Clam1952 solution may be the way. I will delete 19 and start all over again, meaning re-install all the way to SP5, then follow instructions. However, as I recall, I had (in fact I still have a copy of 19 SP4 working perfectly with my route), SP4 and I upgraded to SP5; it is at that point when my existing route showed all these faults. DBR's, revert to original and all that have no effect now. If the route would load, I could see the red boxes and missing terrain texture plus all that is faulty; at that point i could substitute whatever is faulty, however I can't do it because it is not loading. And we are talking here just a route, never mind sessions so as not to complicate things anymore that they are. The bottom line is that we are uncovering here a flaw in the system, and if it does not get solved it will become worse.

Thats a good reply from Malc (Clam1952) and should be made a sticky. That said, the enduser shouldn't have to perfom such tasks when the software company releases an upgrade. It's a real poor showing and what makes it worse there is no recourse to download a previous Service Pack.

Sometimes I think N$V hold their customers in contempt and they very rarely back peddle on issues. Sure they fix bugs when reported, but remember users don't create bugs - programmers and/or bad design do.

I have no other software where I hold my breath during and after an upgrade.

Nice post Malc and llebrez I sincerely hope you fix the problems you are experiencing.

John

johnarran said:

Thats a good reply from Malc (Clam1952) and should be made a sticky. That said, the enduser shouldn't have to perfom such tasks when the software company releases an upgrade. It's a real poor showing and what makes it worse there is no recourse to download a previous Service Pack.

Sometimes I think N$V hold their customers in contempt and they very rarely back peddle on issues. Sure they fix bugs when reported, but remember users don't create bugs - programmers and/or bad design do.

I have no other software where I hold my breath during and after an upgrade.

Nice post Malc and llebrez I sincerely hope you fix the problems you are experiencing.

John

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That's why you make a backup prior to upgrading. It's a given that if the back is done, there won't be an issue.

If the Trainz database updated, then there are no issues with the content. I've gone from TRS2004 to TRS2006, TRS2006 to TS2009 and so one right through to the current TRS22+. I have much of the same data as I had originally in TRS2004, and I have zero errors with my current data installed. I have weeded out a lot of older stuff not used in nearly a couple of decades but for the more part it's the same data as always.

As far as upgrades making you hold your breath, you never worked in IT and supported a large infrastructure with multiple larger servers holding equally large databases or use Cities Skylines. Every time Colossal Order releases new DLC or a patch, the program fails to load for at least a week until the content creators are able to fix their add-ons, or mods in CS parlance and even then, some of the updates are temporary until a new version of the mods is released.

The usual reason for failures isn't so much bad program code in the base game not that there aren't bugs in the code. The problem is the content creators do things that work around the limitations of the at the time when the program was written. What happens is that the company programmers will fix those limitations, which are also referred to as holes, and this causes the program to now fail.

John: What I read is that the problem is due to content creators. Really? Then how come all these assets were working before SP5? Then you state that it would not happen if we do back-ups. I partially agree to that. If you read my starting post, you may see that I still have my SP4 working with no errors. I fail to see why not backing SP4 will prevent SP5 from failing. The thread is changing direction from the original problem, I think..

JCitron said:

As far as upgrades making you hold your breath, you never worked in IT and supported a large infrastructure with multiple larger servers holding equally large databases or use Cities Skylines.

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Oh Yes John I have, very much so. Since I was in my mid 20s. I'm now 63, but retired for the last 3 years.

Funny you mention Cities Skylines, I don't have a problem with that, though it could be because I don't have that much DLC for it. I get bored with it these days.

Regards,

John

johnarran said:

Oh Yes John I have, very much so. Since I was in my mid 20s. I'm now 63, but retired for the last 3 years.

Funny you mention Cities Skylines, I don't have a problem with that, though it could be because I don't have that much DLC for it. I get bored with it these days.

Regards,

John

Click to expand...

I did the same thing and retired as well. You've got a couple of years on me. The funny thing is I don't miss it either.

The problem with Cities is that the mods break. It's when the developers come out with a patch along with their new DLC. I agree it's a bit boring and too routine and will use it for a while then go back to it later.

Why is Trainz like Windows where Microsoft ends support after a while and they want you to upgrade to the next version? Will Trainz become something like where you can only buy newer versions and older versions, even TANE and 19 eventually become unavailable to purchase for new users and support ends? Why is Trainz becoming subscription based where you have to pay every so often? There is a non-subscription version of 22 but it is missing features. And, if you try to run a version of Windows older than 10 on a newer computer, you get nagged with an unsupported hardware box saying that the processor is not supported with the Windows version you are running. But, you can move it out of the way and use your computer as normal. I like Win 8 better than 10 because it has Media Center that you can record TV with. Media Center is a pain to get to run properly on 10. My previous computer got hit by lightning a few years ago and I replaced it with a newer one but I installed Win 8 on it. I had to hook my old C drive via USB to get data off.

In the US, a 30-year-old car is considered a classic. They are great to see and drive, but they don't get support from the original manufacturer. It is the same with computer software, but more accelerated. Microsoft has no interest in continuing to support back versions that don't have the technology and security features of the newer versions. Frankly, I much prefer Windows 11 to Windows 8, ALTHOUGH there are some settings in Windows 95 I wish they still allowed. They need to invest their personnel and resources into supporting new versions and anticipating what new technologies they may need to support in upcoming versions. They also need to patch current and future versions (as well as limited past versions sometimes) for security issues that arise.

The same goes even greater for N3V. They have much smaller staff to both support what is current and program for what is upcoming. They don't have the staff or income stream to staff support for much older versions. The subscription model is one way they can hope to increase the income stream and support more and better versions of Trainz. If you buy standalone, as I do, that's great, but that money won't last them long. It probably won't pay two programmers for an hour. Having extra features in the subscription model is one way to entice customers to join that model and help insure an income stream. Then, they hope for people like those of us on the forums to help support the older versions. There is a great knowledge base here on the forums.

EDIT: And yes, I too am bummed that Microsoft dropped the media center.

RWK: Be careful what you say, or a moderator may scold at you. Anyhow, I, and many of us totally agree with your observations. But the origin of this thread is about upgrading to SP5 and making a lot of your content faulty, even if later it deviated onto unrelated topics. Still, as you can see, no clear cut answers to this original problem. For your Media Center problem, I gave up time ago and now I use a third party player/recorder; there are a ton of these available. Plus, DVD is on the way out slowly.

I get the gist of what is being said here but I'm really taking issue with blaming the content creators for issues that arise when you upgrade to a newer release. There is only once place that blame lies and I don't need to spell it out.

Though I'll admit... I had no issues with SP5 update

Small, well defined upgrades are a better answer rather than glorious upgrades demanded by a marketing person. Provide time to "mature" the change then move to the next change that is also MANAGEABLE.

These Grand Design changes have always been made with some distorted view toward their marketing/sales value. What you get is what is seen in this thread above. Using updates as Marketing Tools is a mistake - period. Perhaps, just a periodic summary of the changes for the last period with some marketing splash is much less dangerous. Keep marketing out of managing software development. They provide input - BUT NOT CONTROL. Or, you will have more threads.

Pete, the only comment I could construe that way might be JCitron's, but I don't think he was "blaming". He said the content creators work around the limitations in the current code, which I take to mean that they do what they can to actually make better content than the code is designed for, but then the creations break when the programmers fix the limitations in the code in a manner that is not compatible with the creators' work arounds. No blame there I see, just an effort to do their best with what they have at the time. And no blame to them when it breaks, it just happens when the code changes.
It happens to other programs too. I used to have a nice little program called Catfish, which indexed contents of my backup CDs into a database so I could just lookup what CD a certain document or photograph was on. But Windows changed to the point where that program won't even run any more, not even in any compatibility mode I can find. So I can no longer look up what I have on my old backup CDs, I have to manually load them. Not the fault of the people who wrote the program. It would have been great if they could have somehow updated it to work with modern Windows, but they did not, but I don't blame them.