Old problem reappearing

autodctr

Active member
Build 117689. I previously had this problem in TR19. But after an update, I did not have the problem any longer. Now it is back. Whether in editor or just sitting there with Trainz open and waiting to either run or edit a route, after about 5 minutes, Trainz locks up. The only way to get out is the 3 finger salute. Even when driving a train, if I do not move the camera around, it locks up in a few minutes and the train is frozen.

Understand that Trainz is the ONLY program that is run in Win10: everything else that I do is in Linux. The screen saver is turned off. chkdsk /r /f has been run repeatedly and nothing found. Leaving just the desktop sitting there, I can come back hours later and it is not locked, so it has to be something related to Trainz.

I hope someone has an answer or a suggestion.
 
Chkdsk doesn't show if there's an underlying Windows problem. There could be something else going wrong such as OS data corruption.

For that, you need to run SFC /SCANNOW in an administrator-level command prompt.

I'm not saying this is a Windows-related issue, it's just a good place to start.

If you've had crashes like this, you should run a DBR. Once you've crashed, it will corrupt the database which will lead to more crashes.

How is the cooling?
Is power management turned off?
How much memory?

Is this in a VM?
 
Cooling is very good. When it crashes, both GPU and CPU are below 50C.
Power management is off.
16G 3200mhz
 
Could well be a faulty or corrupt asset has been installed, often these don't show up as faulty, have a look the logs for anything that looks like it might be the cause.
Or check you haven't got any packaged, builtins or base showing as modified, that can mess things up as well.
 
Ran SFC /SCANNOW and it seems to be OK now. I gotta wonder though what caused it to get screwed up in the first place? Train22 is the ONLY thing that runs on Windows......everything else (including posting this) happens in Linux.

I hate Windows.

PLEASE come up with a Linux version! Lemme know.....I will be MORE than happy to beta test it!!!!!
 
Ran SFC /SCANNOW and it seems to be OK now. I gotta wonder though what caused it to get screwed up in the first place? Train22 is the ONLY thing that runs on Windows......everything else (including posting this) happens in Linux.

I hate Windows.

PLEASE come up with a Linux version! Lemme know.....I will be MORE than happy to beta test it!!!!!

Possible causes:
Windows Defender / other AVs scanning Trainz files on Access and interrupting whatever Trainz database is up to, needs excluding, exclusions need checking after a major Windows update, twice here they have been removed although hasn't happened for 12 months now.

Indexing, disable on Trainz drive, if you have SSDs there is no gain from indexing files anyway. For Win users a little free program Search Everything is far quicker and thorough than Windows search and doesn't require Indexing to be running.

Multi-boot with Linux, if doing things on an NTFS drive it can on occasions mess up permissions and or trigger a disk repair on booting Windows, I would avoid mounting the Trainz drive unless like me you have been playing with Wine to run it from a Windows disk, that worked reasonably well up to TS12 apart from the useless Content manager.

After running a database repair in TANE upwards assuming that it has finished when it says it has, if you check disk access there is clearly some delayed caching going on which may take a minute or two or Ten minutes or longer so so advisable not to shut down immediately after doing a database repair, this is worse if using spinners with large disk caches, not so much an SSD issue.

Get rid of Nvidia Experience, IMO Trainz runs better without it.

Likewise probably more applicable to Win11, get rid of Windows Xbox crap and game bar, definitely better performance without it, I've never actually run Edge on this PC as I never used IE.

Stop Edge from autostarting on startup, IMO best to avoid it completely downside is MS's annoying Widgets in Win11 need Edge to be running, I can live without that annoyance.

I do run Linux but I'm also a Windows Insider so no real problem with either OS, have always run both although Windows always needs taming and adjusting to get rid of the junk MS thinks we all want. Most insiders constantly complain and make suggestions in the hope that MS might take notice, we have though just got tabs in File Manager or rather are testing them, something people have been requesting since XP........ Far more use than stupid emojis and Widgets!
 
Trainz is ignored in Defender....no other AV running since I don't do anything but Trainz in Win10.

This is really not a multiboot.....Linux is on its own SSD. The ONLY way that I get Linux to run is to go into Boot Manager and chose that SSD. Otherwise it boots directly into Win10.

I do not use nVidia Experience: not installed.

Edge is blocked from starting.
 
Still dealing with this issue. I have rebuilt the data base more times than I can count. I have run the scannows and chkdsks until I lost count. When I look into the logs (as someone suggested) I find all kinds of things....things that I have no idea what they are or mean. I see degenerate triangles, mesh clusters, weird things. TONS of them. Any suggestions at this point? Screenshot of logs?

As long as I am moving the mouse or the camera, everything is good. But just let the program sit, either while a watching a consist run, or just letting it sit still.....it locks. Just logging in, going to Content and sitting there, it will lock up.

For the heck of it, I did go onto the web. Watched a video that was a little over an hour in length....never moved mouse or touched the keyboard. No problem. Then I brought a video up, paused it and let it sit for an hour. No problem. But let Trainz sit for 10-20 minutes, locked up tight.
 
You can copy and paste the logs into a text file instead of screen capturing. It would be interesting to see. Filtering also works too by removing warnings and leaving only errors by clicking on the buttons at the top of the log.

In addition to the logs, what does Event Viewer show?

Event Viewer can be found by right-clicking on the Start-menu icon on the taskbar, or by pressing Win+R keys to bring up the run box and typing in eventvwr.exe.

If you've never encountered the Event Viewer, there are different filters (categories to check). The two most important are System and Applications. In these you want to check the events that occur around the time that Trainz crashes and even quite a bit before. This is sometimes very enlightening and may prove this is a system error somewhere.
 
I see this a buch of times in Event Viewr:

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-DistributedCOM
Date: 8/23/2022 8:45:45 PM
Event ID: 10016
Task Category: None
Level: Warning
Keywords: Classic
User: DESKTOP-8FTJ7N3\14124
Computer: DESKTOP-8FTJ7N3
Description:
The application-specific permission settings do not grant Local Activation permission for the COM Server application with CLSID
{2593F8B9-4EAF-457C-B68A-50F6B8EA6B54}
and APPID
{15C20B67-12E7-4BB6-92BB-7AFF07997402}
to the user DESKTOP-8FTJ7N3\14124 SID (S-1-5-21-504002332-2698575310-3610354012-1001) from address LocalHost (Using LRPC) running in the application container Unavailable SID (Unavailable). This security permission can be modified using the Component Services administrative tool.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-DistributedCOM" Guid="{1B562E86-B7AA-4131-BADC-B6F3A001407E}" EventSourceName="DCOM" />
<EventID Qualifiers="0">10016</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>3</Level>
<Task>0</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8080000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2022-08-24T00:45:45.8378183Z" />
<EventRecordID>200928</EventRecordID>
<Correlation ActivityID="{132ebec6-f4be-4a44-9709-4293fbb5b2d5}" />
<Execution ProcessID="1264" ThreadID="3848" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>DESKTOP-8FTJ7N3</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-21-504002332-2698575310-3610354012-1001" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="param1">application-specific</Data>
<Data Name="param2">Local</Data>
<Data Name="param3">Activation</Data>
<Data Name="param4">{2593F8B9-4EAF-457C-B68A-50F6B8EA6B54}</Data>
<Data Name="param5">{15C20B67-12E7-4BB6-92BB-7AFF07997402}</Data>
<Data Name="param6">DESKTOP-8FTJ7N3</Data>
<Data Name="param7">14124</Data>
<Data Name="param8">S-1-5-21-504002332-2698575310-3610354012-1001</Data>
<Data Name="param9">LocalHost (Using LRPC)</Data>
<Data Name="param10">Unavailable</Data>
<Data Name="param11">Unavailable</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>
 
I hate Windows.

PLEASE come up with a Linux version! Lemme know.....I will be MORE than happy to beta test it!!!!!

Ditto. I would much prefer a Linux release. I only keep windoze around for Trainz and Call of Duty (and maybe a few other games, but primarily those two).
 
Thanks for the reply, but I do not use Skype. In fact, I do not do anything on Windows except Trainz.

I might have a fix......not sure. I did manage to run Trainz for 45 minutes w/o a lock-up, so........ I saw this locomotive quite a few times in the logs: 506034:455621 GT GP9 blue. I did have one on the layout, but it was not moving when any of the lock-ups occurred. That asset was "built-in", so I hate to think that is is defective, but removing it from the route let me go for 45 minutes. And that is a LOT longer than I have been able to go recently. However, I do not know if that would cause my lock-up when no route or session is loaded and I am just sitting at the main screen.
 
OK. Removing the above mentioned loco from the layout seems to have gotten rid on my lock-ups.....I even let it sit for an hour and all was good. But now, I have this problem: when going to a loco I get this message: "Selected train is not under user control". I try to add a driver and then assign them to that train, but that doesn't work. The only way that I have found to eliminate the problem is to delete that loco and then put the same loco back onto the train. This has happened quite a few times today: it can either be on a saved session or a new session. Last night, I had all 23 trains running and all looked good. But then I noticed that 2 of the trains were getting very close to each other.....one was catching up to the one in front. Going to the train that appeared to be slowing, I saw that its speed was at 40MPH when earlier it had been probably around 65MPH. There was nothing there to allow me to increase or decrease the speed. Clicking on anything gave me the "Selected train is not under user control" message again.

What is up with this?

Understand that I use NO AI at all. My main line (sight-seeing) is about 160 miles long. I can easily run 11 trains on it with minimal input from me: start one from the yard, then the next and so on. Set speed of first train and then each subsequent one to 1-2 MPH slower. They will easily get around to the station 160+ miles later and can be all brought in safely.

And one more question: why did removing that one loco apparently solve my lock-up problem?
 
Removing the loco solved the lock-up problem probably and most likely because the loco had issues with it of some sort. It could be a bad mesh or textures, or maybe a corrupted script just thinking off the top of my head. This kind of thing has all kinds of impact on the program in some fashion because it's all interconnected in some way. Why this occurred over time after idling, who knows. This could be due to the program needing to reload geometry when the computer comes back to life and refreshing caused the mesh or script to reload. In essence, there are too many variables to determine exactly what caused it. It could be as simple as timing as I've seen before with a corrupted asset which appeared in a particular place on a route exactly 30 minutes into the run from the station. This was most difficult to find, and I scrapped that part of the route. On another, which I've mentioned a few times, I had a corrupted Speed Tree in the middle of a forest. That was never found until I changed the trees to something else to bring the route into TANE.

The other issues you mention are AI actions, whether you set the AI to follow commands. A train set in motion is under AI control. If you are setting up the Drive command, they will react to other drivers ahead, to signals, junctions, etc., as the drivers come across them in their journey.

Your signal settings in general, affect how the AI will go about their business. N3V uses the base NORAC rules for the US signals and the rules associated with other countries. Not seeing your route specifically, an upload somewhere for us to try, can give us a better indication of what's going on. The basic signal rules state that Red = stop, yellow = half the posted limit if there's an obstruction ahead and the next signal is red, and green = proceed.

An obstruction ahead can be another train, a junction set against the route, and even a very, very long distance between signals. I can't remember what that is, but I think it's something like 17 km but don't quote me on that.

The train not under user-control occurs due to many reasons.

- The train is being controlled by an interactive industry - this includes industries.
- The train has just been spat out of portal but hasn't got its sea legs yet and is barreling blindly down the tracks until the AI wakes up from its comatose state and takes over the controls.
- The train is starting or stopping - this is also true under user-controlled trains that you've started the stop or start then attempt to take control of the train.
 
No portals being used. No AI: every train is operated by hand. Signal settings? There are none. No signals used. If a train is starting or stopping, it is because I am doing it. I do not load or unload cargo. No passengers get on or off. My layout, except for being large (600 bases) is totally controlled by hand.

45+ years ago, as a kid, I had a rather large layout at Christmas: over 140 square feet and 3 different levels. That is what I am trying to "recreate" with Trainz: just putting trains on the tracks, twisting the speed knob and watching them run. Every movement of every train is controlled by hand. The main line has 11 or 12 trains running on it at a time. It is over 160 miles in length. I pull the first train out and set its speed. Next train leaves and speed is set (by "twisting" the knob to a MPH or slower that the first. Third train manually pulled out and speed set to slightly slower than second train. Repeat until all trains running. After awhile, maybe 20-30 minutes, trains now have rather large gaps in between them and what was the first train to leave the station is catching up to the last train. So, I slow the fast train to 1 or 2 MPH slower than the one it is catching up to. Repeat for the next fastest one. So on and so on until all have been slowed (using the speed dial).
 
If there is a problem with a builtin loco and assuming it isn't showing as modified, open for edit then right click revert to original usually fixes whatever went wrong.
 
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