What do I need to do to get reasonable passengers in TS2022?

What I'd really like is a way for the layout to set the default passenger set. Currently the default passenger set does not work for existing layouts set in the 1930s etc and editing every coach, platform, config.txt file etc doesn't really appeal especially when it was working reasonably well before the new set.

I know it's normal for a new version to break things but the new set seems a bit extreme for steam railways.

Thoughts?

Thanks John

Wouldn't have been a problem if they had not obsoleted the previous versions in the new version.
Agree the passengers are totally in appropriate for those of us who are not modelling in the 22nd Century.

Problem caused by this from the config of kuid -25 1487 Prod Passengers 2020 which has effectively killed the original passengers used on many historical routes which is 99.9% of UK routes.


It is not practical to edit the config files of hundreds of passenger vehicles and stations to change the kuid to the "Replacement" 2012 version to correct this somewhat annoying "improvement" that is wrecking historical routes that otherwise are fine in TRS19 and TRS22.

And as a comment some of the female passengers in the new version appear to be more suited to posing on a catwalk or touting for trade on a street corner than waiting for trains at a railway station even in 2022!

And @ N3V you might want to look at the packaged kuid -25 1487 Prod Passengers 2020 as the asset folder contains all the original im meshes plus the PBR TrainzMesh files in a sub folder, those im meshes should have been removed.

clam1952 said:

...And as a comment some of the female passengers in the new version appear to be more suited to posing on a catwalk or touting for trade on a street corner than waiting for trains at a railway station even in 2022!..

Click to expand...

Not got TRS2022 yet but have seen screenshots with passengers from such and I agree with above comment from clam1952. The new passengers are not typical of a wet and cold platform from a UK railway station! Some of the new female passengers look like refugees from a Ru Paul show!

Rob.

This is what I would do, add it to the Edit Route Popup. The red box would be a dropdown of 'loaded' passenger assets that could be downloaded from the DLS



I really believe this could be the fix, I have suggested it before.

Christopher824 said:

This is what I would do, add it to the Edit Route Popup. The red box would be a dropdown of 'loaded' passenger assets that could be downloaded from the DLS

I really believe this could be the fix, I have suggested it before.

Click to expand...

Are you saying this is possible today or real soon now if N3V could fix it?

Thanks John

clam1952 said:

Wouldn't have been a problem if they had not obsoleted the previous versions in the new version.
Agree the passengers are totally in appropriate for those of us who are not modelling in the 22nd Century.

Problem caused by this from the config of kuid -25 1487 Prod Passengers 2020 which has effectively killed the original passengers used on many historical routes which is 99.9% of UK routes.

Code:

obsolete-table
    {
      0                                     <kuid:-3:10060>
      1                                     <kuid:-3:11060>
      2                                     <kuid:-3:11061>
      3                                     <kuid:-3:110060>
      4                                     <kuid:-3:12060>
      5                                     <kuid:-25:1188>
      6                                     <kuid:-25:1235>
      7                                     <kuid:-25:1354>
    }

It is not practical to edit the config files of hundreds of passenger vehicles and stations to change the kuid to the "Replacement" 2012 version to correct this somewhat annoying "improvement" that is wrecking historical routes that otherwise are fine in TRS19 and TRS22.

And as a comment some of the female passengers in the new version appear to be more suited to posing on a catwalk or touting for trade on a street corner than waiting for trains at a railway station even in 2022!

And @ N3V you might want to look at the packaged kuid -25 1487 Prod Passengers 2020 as the asset folder contains all the original im meshes plus the PBR TrainzMesh files in a sub folder, those im meshes should have been removed.

Click to expand...

So if the 2022 passenger set got deleted or disabled?

Thanks John

johnwhelan said:

Are you saying this is possible today or real soon now if N3V could fix it?

Thanks John

Click to expand...

I'm saying that this is something that N3V could implement fairly easily. The Edit Route Popup settings run at startup of the Route, Session and Driver. It's a run once set of settings. So it should not be real hard to add it to the 'Startup Soup'.

Could N3V do it? Well that's a matter of policy, which means meetings, etc. I think it's a big enough problem, with less time to develop than most other 'problems' that it should be considered sooner rather than later.

To me I see it as 'could be' real soon.

Nice idea but I can't see how that would work as the passengers are assigned in the assets config be it a passenger car or a station and not the route config, that would entail parsing every asset with passengers in the config to override the one in the assets kuid table not what I would think would be a quick and easy fix.

As I see it there was no need to obsolete the original version when a new version could have been created for the route it was first used in, which I believe was the Looe Branch.

New is not always better especially when it changes something to what is effectively a different asset!

clam1952 said:

Nice idea but I can't see how that would work as the passengers are assigned in the assets config be it a passenger car or a station and not the route config, that would entail parsing every asset with passengers in the config to override the one in the assets kuid table not what I would think would be a quick and easy fix.

As I see it there was no need to obsolete the original version when a new version could have been created for the route it was first used in, which I believe was the Looe Branch.

New is not always better especially when it changes something to what is effectively a different asset!

Click to expand...

So lets say you have 100 or so assets with custom passenger lists, and this new setting overrode them all. I could just go to Edit Route and change every asset to any passenger type I wanted. Would that not be easier and more productive.

So maybe move it to the Session level with a rule (or have both where route is default and session overrides), so I could have wet and dry people, 50's or 2000's people?

To be able to massivily overriide the passengers on a bulk level is far more appealing to me than the current system, which from this thread does not work.

Christopher824 said:

I'm saying that this is something that N3V could implement fairly easily. The Edit Route Popup settings run at startup of the Route, Session and Driver. It's a run once set of settings. So it should not be real hard to add it to the 'Startup Soup'.

Could N3V do it? Well that's a matter of policy, which means meetings, etc. I think it's a big enough problem, with less time to develop than most other 'problems' that it should be considered sooner rather than later.

To me I see it as 'could be' real soon.

Click to expand...

So real soon now. Oh well you never know.

Thanks John

clam1952 said:

Nice idea but I can't see how that would work as the passengers are assigned in the assets config be it a passenger car or a station and not the route config, that would entail parsing every asset with passengers in the config to override the one in the assets kuid table not what I would think would be a quick and easy fix.

As I see it there was no need to obsolete the original version when a new version could have been created for the route it was first used in, which I believe was the Looe Branch.

New is not always better especially when it changes something to what is effectively a different asset!

Click to expand...

I'm thinking more of the layout on start up could copy in the appropriate passenger set over the default.

Cheerio John

Following this thread, I thought I might try going back to T:ANE and try cloning some of the assets that are being obsoleted. Then I could maybe use the clones. But it isn't as easy as all that, I guess. I cloned <kuid:-3:11061> Passengers which is Base, Obsolete (probably could have chosen my first attempt better?), then brought up the new asset in Explorer. It is obviously not insular, having all the following references to other assets. So, if N3V affects those, then the clone gets affected as well, yes? The only way to avoid it is to clone all of the references below as well and change them in the config.txt. And then lead a merry chase for all the references in each of those?

product-category <kuid:-3:10091>
obsolete-table
{
0 <kuid:-3:10060>
1 <kuid:-3:11060>
2 <kuid:-3:110060>
}
kuid-table
{
0 <kuid:-3:10091>
}

I may be wrong here, but isn't the obsolete-table now obsolete? I thought that is now controlled by the build engines.

Christopher824 said:

I may be wrong here, but isn't the obsolete-table now obsolete? I thought that is now controlled by the build engines.

Click to expand...

And N3V, they still use it.

Cheerio John

I notice whereas Tony has responded to other posts last night this thread has been missed or ignored?

Mulling Andi06's invisible stations such as "AJS Station 1x50s" are used heavily. If I clone the station then change the kuid to a different passenger set kuid that would generate the desired passengers.

The coaches are just a matter of adding all the possible passenger set kuids to the coach and deleting the initial load.

So I need to identify all the passenger sets with kuids that won't get obsoleted.

Anyone know what they are?

Thoughts?

Thanks John

johnwhelan said:

Mulling Andi06's invisible stations such as "AJS Station 1x50s" are used heavily. If I clone the station then change the kuid to a different passenger set kuid that would generate the desired passengers.

The coaches are just a matter of adding all the possible passenger set kuids to the coach and deleting the initial load.

So I need to identify all the passenger sets with kuids that won't get obsoleted.

Anyone know what they are?

Thoughts?

Thanks John

Click to expand...

The replacement S&C Passengers that Zec uploaded under his kuid <kuid:447125:110> Prod Passengers 2012

From the description.

Product - Passengers 2012
This asset is a replacement for the old 'Settle and Carlisle' passenger set included with TC3 through TRS19, so as to allow it's use after replacement by newer passenger commodity assets.

Click to expand...

clam1952 said:

The replacement S&C Passengers that Zec uploaded under his kuid <kuid:447125:110> Prod Passengers 2012

From the description.

Click to expand...

I see also on the dls:
<kuid:-25:1355> Prod Passengers 2012 (legacy, 1950s attire) and the passengers look similar to Zec's version.

[edited] You still have to edit 100's of passenger cars and stations to use any of the new kuids. They provide a work around but not a practical fix to the problem.

Bob Pearson

Tony - if you're noting this thread - I'd appeal to you to sort this difficulty out or at least confirm that you'll put it on the to do list. It's a pretty serious but surely unnecessary problem for anyone modelling the steam era, or indeed any period other than the present day, not to mention routes in bad weather or snow, as this '2020' passenger set is glaringly inappropriate for all these. I'd like to hope it's also fairly easy for you to rectify centrally?

The new passenger set feels like being attacked by a virus. It enters your system (allegedly via the Liskeard and Looe DLC), replicates itself across all your routes and passenger stock whether you like it or not, and then like all good viruses locks out the competition so that you're stuck with it.

There are discussions going on in various places as to how one might create workarounds within one's own system but as someone who wants to put on the DLS only things which everyone can use, that's not a solution. if people want these passengers on a suitable route (eg London Underground or New York Subway c.2022) that's fine, but as the set is so unusual in nature, route creators should have some choice.

I'm currently working on a major addition to the Dearnby series of UK steam routes and sessions (with 50,000 downloads to date) but there's no way I could credibly put the new route on the DLS with passengers like this everywhere. It would stick out like a sore thumb. So at the moment all my Trainz projects are banjaxed and I presume that's going to apply to a lot of the steam modelling customer base.

So I'd ask you to look at this as a priority please..... Nobody expects a fix overnight but it would be reassuring to know that you acknowledge the problem and that something will be in the pipeline as soon as you can address it. Thanks.

johnwhelan said:

...
So I need to identify all the passenger sets with kuids that won't get obsoleted.

Anyone know what they are?

Thoughts?

Thanks John

Click to expand...

The only one I see by Auran/N3V that's not obsoleted (yet) is this one:
<kuid:-25:1355> Prod Passengers 2012 (legacy, 1950s attire)

I don't have nuch in the way of payware or DLC stuff so there could be others.

I don't think they'd touch any 3rd party content

Bob Pearson