What do I need to do to get reasonable passengers in TS2022?
- Thread starter johnwhelan
- Start date
neville_hill
Well-known member
As an illustration of the problem we are talking about, see the screenshots below:
This is what Dearnby in Midwinter has become in TRS22. It's meant to be in the savage winter of 1963. It's now populated by underdressed ladies from 60 years in the future.......
[/IMG]
Meanwhile some large chests have been pushed out on Platform 1....
[/IMG]
Do people really stand like this to wait for trains in any era?
[/IMG]
.
This is what Dearnby in Midwinter has become in TRS22. It's meant to be in the savage winter of 1963. It's now populated by underdressed ladies from 60 years in the future.......
Meanwhile some large chests have been pushed out on Platform 1....
Do people really stand like this to wait for trains in any era?
.
Driver_Col
Active member
Not only inappropriate, but they all seem to be going to a party. Where's their luggage? Why do the women not have purses? Pretty ridiculous offerings for a Train Sim business. Colin.
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Hi All
Unfortunately a 13+ year old set of people models simply doesn't cut it for modern game releases, and as such we made the decision to update the passenger asset using a high resolution 3D scanned passenger set (unfortunately 3D scanned people tend to be wearing clothing that is very present day looking!). As the vast majority of passenger active content in Trainz uses the 'default' passenger asset, if we update this it will change for all content that uses it.
For this reason we have released the legacy passenger asset, which creators can use if they wish to. For traincars, you can list multiple passenger assets in the passenger queue, whilst for platforms they will be setup to accept /any/ passenger type commodity, however by default they will display the default passengers on the platforms due to this method; it is possible to instead specify the specific commodity you want in the platform instead.
However, if you do wish to make the <kuid:-25:1355> Prod Passengers 2012 (legacy, 1950s attire) passenger set appear as the default passenger set in your entire Trainz installation, you can use the following steps to obsolete the new <kuid:-25:1487> Prod Passengers 2020 commodity with the legacy passenger asset:
1) Install <kuid:-25:1355> from the DLS
2) Edit the config (right click -> edit -> Edit Config File Text)
3) Copy and paste the following at the bottom of the config file:
obsolete-table
{
0 <kuid:-25:1487>
}
4)Submit the asset.
This should then obsolete the new default passenger asset with the '1950s' style passenger asset on all stations and rolling stock that use the default passenger asset.
To revert this change, simply either delete the obsolete-table entry, or delete and re-download the legacy passenger asset.
NOTE: If the asset is marked as packaged (ie if you have Potteries Loop Line installed), then you will also need to convert the .texture files using a tool such as images2tga from PEV.
We do have a task in our system to look into options for making the passengers set by region, or similar, however I don't have any timeframe for when any changes may come along for this.
Regards
Unfortunately a 13+ year old set of people models simply doesn't cut it for modern game releases, and as such we made the decision to update the passenger asset using a high resolution 3D scanned passenger set (unfortunately 3D scanned people tend to be wearing clothing that is very present day looking!). As the vast majority of passenger active content in Trainz uses the 'default' passenger asset, if we update this it will change for all content that uses it.
For this reason we have released the legacy passenger asset, which creators can use if they wish to. For traincars, you can list multiple passenger assets in the passenger queue, whilst for platforms they will be setup to accept /any/ passenger type commodity, however by default they will display the default passengers on the platforms due to this method; it is possible to instead specify the specific commodity you want in the platform instead.
However, if you do wish to make the <kuid:-25:1355> Prod Passengers 2012 (legacy, 1950s attire) passenger set appear as the default passenger set in your entire Trainz installation, you can use the following steps to obsolete the new <kuid:-25:1487> Prod Passengers 2020 commodity with the legacy passenger asset:
1) Install <kuid:-25:1355> from the DLS
2) Edit the config (right click -> edit -> Edit Config File Text)
3) Copy and paste the following at the bottom of the config file:
obsolete-table
{
0 <kuid:-25:1487>
}
4)Submit the asset.
This should then obsolete the new default passenger asset with the '1950s' style passenger asset on all stations and rolling stock that use the default passenger asset.
To revert this change, simply either delete the obsolete-table entry, or delete and re-download the legacy passenger asset.
NOTE: If the asset is marked as packaged (ie if you have Potteries Loop Line installed), then you will also need to convert the .texture files using a tool such as images2tga from PEV.
We do have a task in our system to look into options for making the passengers set by region, or similar, however I don't have any timeframe for when any changes may come along for this.
Regards
Last edited:
neville_hill
Well-known member
Thanks for replying Zec and for the workaround, which seems to have worked on my system.
Increasing the quality of the passenger figures was a very sensible idea. It's just that most of the figures are ill-chosen because they don't look like they're travelling by rail at all, and I know that there is disquiet about the catwalk poses which are really out of place.
The immediate question is what happens if I want to put my route on the DLS with the legacy set? Do downloaders have to start editing configs on their systems or will the legacy passengers carry through the process and appear on the route?
Increasing the quality of the passenger figures was a very sensible idea. It's just that most of the figures are ill-chosen because they don't look like they're travelling by rail at all, and I know that there is disquiet about the catwalk poses which are really out of place.
The immediate question is what happens if I want to put my route on the DLS with the legacy set? Do downloaders have to start editing configs on their systems or will the legacy passengers carry through the process and appear on the route?
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Is there a method to replace the invisible stations with modified versions on an existing layout? I couldn't spot it using search and replace for objects?
Thanks John
Thanks John
johnwhelan
Well-known member
The other comment is does this fix need to be redone when a new version of the passenger set is released?
Can it be made switchable ie if it is a modern layout go back to the new passenger set?
Thanks John
Can it be made switchable ie if it is a modern layout go back to the new passenger set?
Thanks John
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Hi All
In all honesty, I don't think we would be able to provide a perfect passenger set for everyone, and right now the vast majority of platform assets only support 1 passenger set. The current set isn't necessarily perfect, but I think they fairly well fit modern passengers (even if having such a small set of objects in passenger commodities can result in some of the 'odd' poses repeating a lot). One thing I've personally noticed, looking through high resolution people objects that are available at reasonable prices (ie not hundreds of dollars per person!) is that most are either using a standard pose (either standing with arms straight at their sides, or T-posed for animation), or have some form of 'catwalk' pose.
In regards to the actual 3d scanned people used for 3D printing in some fields such as model railways, I have tried contacting a couple of groups regarding this in the past (albeit quite some time ago), but so far none have been willing to work with us as they are extremely protective of their work. It's not currently viable for us to go about 3D scanning people ourselves, and the cost of hiring a group to do this is simply too high. So we have to fall back to using available models for the time being. That said, we will continue to look at other potential sources for people, since it is something that most people will be wanting a wide variety of them, and there's of course nothing stopping content creators from making their own passenger sets of they so choose.
As to using the legacy passenger set, the change will be a local change only. So another user downloading the route who does not have that change would see the newer passenger set on the route.
For being able to change the passenger set in-game or similar, as per my previous reply:
Beyond this, the only work around right now, without making additional assets, for those who absolutely want to see the older passengers on their routes is to edit the passenger asset as per my previous reply.
For creators who want to offer both in their traincars, this can absolutely be done by simply adding the legacy passengers asset to the queue's configuration.
If you can obtain permission from a creator to clone their platforms, then you could also specify the legacy passengers on the passenger platforms. But of course, this will require you to make clones of any platforms you wish to use in this way and obtain permission to release those clones.
Regards
In all honesty, I don't think we would be able to provide a perfect passenger set for everyone, and right now the vast majority of platform assets only support 1 passenger set. The current set isn't necessarily perfect, but I think they fairly well fit modern passengers (even if having such a small set of objects in passenger commodities can result in some of the 'odd' poses repeating a lot). One thing I've personally noticed, looking through high resolution people objects that are available at reasonable prices (ie not hundreds of dollars per person!) is that most are either using a standard pose (either standing with arms straight at their sides, or T-posed for animation), or have some form of 'catwalk' pose.
In regards to the actual 3d scanned people used for 3D printing in some fields such as model railways, I have tried contacting a couple of groups regarding this in the past (albeit quite some time ago), but so far none have been willing to work with us as they are extremely protective of their work. It's not currently viable for us to go about 3D scanning people ourselves, and the cost of hiring a group to do this is simply too high. So we have to fall back to using available models for the time being. That said, we will continue to look at other potential sources for people, since it is something that most people will be wanting a wide variety of them, and there's of course nothing stopping content creators from making their own passenger sets of they so choose.
As to using the legacy passenger set, the change will be a local change only. So another user downloading the route who does not have that change would see the newer passenger set on the route.
For being able to change the passenger set in-game or similar, as per my previous reply:
Beyond this, the only work around right now, without making additional assets, for those who absolutely want to see the older passengers on their routes is to edit the passenger asset as per my previous reply.
For creators who want to offer both in their traincars, this can absolutely be done by simply adding the legacy passengers asset to the queue's configuration.
If you can obtain permission from a creator to clone their platforms, then you could also specify the legacy passengers on the passenger platforms. But of course, this will require you to make clones of any platforms you wish to use in this way and obtain permission to release those clones.
Regards
The people with their limbs in odd positions such as arms and legs straight out, these models are meant to be manipulated in a 3d-modeler and animated or posed using as 3ds Max or Blender. I remember using some way, way back in 3ds R4 DOS for this purpose. Bones were added using the Bones plug-in and they were animated using the Kinetics plug-in.
I agree working towards putting the passenger-set in a region would be the best way to go. If nothing is provided in the region, then the default set is used.
I agree working towards putting the passenger-set in a region would be the best way to go. If nothing is provided in the region, then the default set is used.
Hi Zec, the only acceptable course of action at this point is to have an employee of N3V open the passenger set and remove the obsolete table entries, increase the version number and upload it to the DLS. That way users can choose to use this set or not. This isn't the first time that the obsolete table has been used to mass replace built-in assets. Old legacy ground textures like Oz Grass was treated to the same treatment in early versions of TRS19 where one texture obsoleted several very different looking textures. I went the path of editing the configs to remove the obsolete table entries to fix the issue but as pointed out by others here that is a local fix only.
N3V knew that this issue was going to happen, that is why the new passenger set was missing from the pre-release versions of the West of Denver DLC package. Either Tony or you gave the reason as including the passenger set would break existing routes and sessions.
Do the right thing and remove the obsolete table entries. If users are happy with the Kardashians, Spice Girls and Beyonce traveling on their routes then they can just not download the new version.
N3V knew that this issue was going to happen, that is why the new passenger set was missing from the pre-release versions of the West of Denver DLC package. Either Tony or you gave the reason as including the passenger set would break existing routes and sessions.
Do the right thing and remove the obsolete table entries. If users are happy with the Kardashians, Spice Girls and Beyonce traveling on their routes then they can just not download the new version.
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Hi Wreeder
Quite simply, we won't be changing the passenger set back to a quite low resolution set that looks like it is from a 15+ year old game. We have provided a set of steps, for those who do prefer the older set, to obsolete the new set with the old set (note that trying to remove the obsolete table from the new set can cause issues, and is not recommended!). Otherwise you will see the newer set on platforms/trains that use the 'default' passenger set. If you don't wish to do this, then you will simply be using the new passenger set.
Unfortunately we don't currently have any other method for changing the passenger set 'globally'. We are looking at options for this, but we cannot simply snap out fingers and implement such a system.
In regards to the obsolete table, this is used where it is necessary to obsolete one asset with another of a different KUID number (under the same author number, for community made content). This is it's appropriate function, and although it has in most cases been itself obsoleted by the kuid2 system, it is still available where a creator needs to obsolete an asset with a new asset under a different KUID number (such as where an asset has ended up as kuid2:######:######:127 ). In the case of assets with the '-' userID numbers (Such as the '-25' authorID), which are N3V assets, the only way to release any updates for these is with the obsolete-table, as these assets cannot support the 'kuid2' system, and as such any updates in any way shape or form for these assets will use the obsolete-table.
It must be noted that not all routes are 1950s UK routes; and as such routes that don't fit this theme will have looked out of place with low resolution 1950s British passengers as well. TBH it's something we did also receive complaints about since TS2009 was released with them as the default passengers, but at that point they were replacing an even lower quality passenger set, as has occurred again in this situation with newer higher resolution people objects. Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, but in this case we have tried to offer an option that will allow you to backdate them on your computer if you so choose.
Regards
Quite simply, we won't be changing the passenger set back to a quite low resolution set that looks like it is from a 15+ year old game. We have provided a set of steps, for those who do prefer the older set, to obsolete the new set with the old set (note that trying to remove the obsolete table from the new set can cause issues, and is not recommended!). Otherwise you will see the newer set on platforms/trains that use the 'default' passenger set. If you don't wish to do this, then you will simply be using the new passenger set.
Unfortunately we don't currently have any other method for changing the passenger set 'globally'. We are looking at options for this, but we cannot simply snap out fingers and implement such a system.
In regards to the obsolete table, this is used where it is necessary to obsolete one asset with another of a different KUID number (under the same author number, for community made content). This is it's appropriate function, and although it has in most cases been itself obsoleted by the kuid2 system, it is still available where a creator needs to obsolete an asset with a new asset under a different KUID number (such as where an asset has ended up as kuid2:######:######:127 ). In the case of assets with the '-' userID numbers (Such as the '-25' authorID), which are N3V assets, the only way to release any updates for these is with the obsolete-table, as these assets cannot support the 'kuid2' system, and as such any updates in any way shape or form for these assets will use the obsolete-table.
It must be noted that not all routes are 1950s UK routes; and as such routes that don't fit this theme will have looked out of place with low resolution 1950s British passengers as well. TBH it's something we did also receive complaints about since TS2009 was released with them as the default passengers, but at that point they were replacing an even lower quality passenger set, as has occurred again in this situation with newer higher resolution people objects. Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, but in this case we have tried to offer an option that will allow you to backdate them on your computer if you so choose.
Regards
amigacooke
Well-known member
Instead of reasons to get TRS22, N3V have provided an excellent reason not to get TRS22.
It doesn’t matter how high resolution the figures are if they are inappropriate in most circumstances. I particularly enjoyed the N3V don’t have resource to develop new figures, but we’re sure content creators do.
It doesn’t matter how high resolution the figures are if they are inappropriate in most circumstances. I particularly enjoyed the N3V don’t have resource to develop new figures, but we’re sure content creators do.
I'm not too pleased with the choice of passengers either. They look like teeny boppers and not commuters traveling by train. If anything, these people definitely wouldn't be caught alive riding in a train and prefer carz instead.
This situation is no different than obsoleting perfectly good old textures with PBR ones which ruined lots of older routes. There's nothing like opening up a perfectly good older route, while not totally up to date but working fine overall, only to find jellyfish guts all over it.
There's a lot more I can say but will hold my tongue for now.
This situation is no different than obsoleting perfectly good old textures with PBR ones which ruined lots of older routes. There's nothing like opening up a perfectly good older route, while not totally up to date but working fine overall, only to find jellyfish guts all over it.
There's a lot more I can say but will hold my tongue for now.
Diesel_Power
New member
my opinion is:
1:
every station platform /coach/carriage/passenger car should load/unload "general passenger items" with no specific asset kuid number for that....
Later, in session/enviroment/region the user define/choose a costum passenger set (or groups of sets) as desired by user and/or exclude others available...
2:
If we can choose precisely specific individual car asset mesh for fill "region" carz group ( like 12 cars different for each route (if i recall), why not choose specific passenger characters ?
or
3:
Specify/define an Era (age) for the specific passenger asset group (i think we had this in the old versions, like 2004?) that would solve many problems, i guess... like 1850s 1900s 1930s 1950s 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s 2010s 2020s ?
or 1850-1900 1900-1950 1950-1975 1975-2000 2000-2020 ?
1:
every station platform /coach/carriage/passenger car should load/unload "general passenger items" with no specific asset kuid number for that....
Later, in session/enviroment/region the user define/choose a costum passenger set (or groups of sets) as desired by user and/or exclude others available...
2:
If we can choose precisely specific individual car asset mesh for fill "region" carz group ( like 12 cars different for each route (if i recall), why not choose specific passenger characters ?
or
3:
Specify/define an Era (age) for the specific passenger asset group (i think we had this in the old versions, like 2004?) that would solve many problems, i guess... like 1850s 1900s 1930s 1950s 1960s 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s 2010s 2020s ?
or 1850-1900 1900-1950 1950-1975 1975-2000 2000-2020 ?
johnwhelan
Well-known member
The practical solution that doesn't need N3V resources to sort this out is to create a number of invisible stations with different passenger sets. I understand this is in hand. This solves the creating a layout problem.
Next we need to talk nicely to content creators who create carriages and get them to add the passenger set kuids to their carriages. Individuals could do this themselves but if we can get a fair number of carriages that will carry most passenger sets then it becomes more transparent to the end user.
The big problem here is coming up with a list of passenger sets as you really only want to do this once.
Cheerio John
Next we need to talk nicely to content creators who create carriages and get them to add the passenger set kuids to their carriages. Individuals could do this themselves but if we can get a fair number of carriages that will carry most passenger sets then it becomes more transparent to the end user.
The big problem here is coming up with a list of passenger sets as you really only want to do this once.
Cheerio John
uh you need of https://kltrainz.com/
johnwhelan
Well-known member
I am not exactly over the moon with the new female models in trs22 either. They definitely do not fit the theme of my wip route. They need scrappy ole jeans and shirts etc not party heels and dress :'( . Anyway to get around it, the platform passenger count has been reduced to 2 (more chance of getting no party/posing girls showing up) and I place other figures (animated and non) on the platforms. Just need the ole imagination of a semi full/full carriage when travelling. Not ideal, but it helps to get round the problem.