Squirrely things trying to import a route and my session to 2022

I just updated to build 117655 and I wanted to see if my favorite route would work in it.

The route had been modified slightly and a session created in an early version of 2019.

Things were looking good till it was time for AI to be emitted from the portals and as usual with new updates, the combination of Central Portal Control and the portals on the route, produced an engine at the portal opening but the consists did not emit. I decided it was time to give up on the feature of immediate emitions and delete Central Portal Control and reconstruct the AI traffic right from the portals themselves and then I saved.

The AI traffic works but now when I drive the session, other things are broken, like:

Traffic that is supposed to go the length of the route and into another portal stops after emitting and says it can't find a path to the portal and through experimentation, I find that the path is broken right at the portal. The track looks fine in driver and in surveyor but trains can't find it but before saving the changes made to just the AI traffic any train that was given AI instruction to go there in the original session can find it.

Back in 2019 I had replaced a coal mine industry with one of those B 13 ones so I could drive through slowly and have all cars fill whereas in the original, one had to stop each car on top of the industry track. This all worked fine in 2019 and it worked fine in 2022 build 117655 but after getting rid of Central Portal Control and redoing the AI traffic and saving, now when I start my session with my driver engine in the coal mine, the engine derails at the B 13 industry track.

To me it is reminiscent of route builders complaining of doing a lot of route construction, saving and then later upon re-opening the route finding things moved out of place.

To paraphrase a famous person: " Why can't these files all just get along? "

Wild Willy the Wacko

Do you still have the ability to check the route in TRS19?
Might be worth reviewing session versus route layers there.
Also might be worth resaving in the latest TRS19 version and importing the new save to see if it behaves consistently or not.
If it is also broken, then it's probably worth submitting a bug report and we'll get qa to check your route out - if we can repro then we can work out a fix from there.

Thanks, I'll work on that!

Wild Willy the Wacko

There is a known issue(s) when going from certain TRS19 SPs, I believe it was SP3 and SP4, to SP5 and higher (TRS22), where track connected to a fixed track object, all the trackside objects 'flip' or change direction, often end up on the wong end of the spline section. Certian complex junctions become detached and track looks like spagetti. I had a 250+ baseboard route go bonkers like this. Once I knew what to look for, I solved it in a day, and now works perfect.

For the fixed track issue, add a spline joint near the object, so there are a couple of joints before an end or junction, then fix the signals, ends, etc.

The signals, triggers and track side objects will take the longest, they need to be moved and flipped back into place.

Some of the junctions that detached may just need to tap on with the track move tool, others may need one track splne removed, then replaced.

Your route may or may not have these issues, but worth checking.

On the bright side, my second favorite route - PRR Pittsburgh to Altoona seems

The PRR Pittsburgh to Altoona route seems to be fully functional in build 117655 but I believe it has different portals and I did make some minor modifications to that route. I guess I should also mention that I use Central Portal Control so that my AI traffic can get going immediately. I especially like to get my passenger trains out early and I then see and interact with other traffic as I drive my sessions.

It's a favorite partly because it runs through my home town and partly because I was trying to get my grand daughter interested in Trainz and her other grand father used to drive trains from Conway Yard to Altoona. I started my session with a girl driver with the instructions that she had to take Big Mike's run because he took a personal day off to celebrate his anniversary with grandma!

There are a few small deviations on the route like some telegraph pole splines that wander into the tracks and I have not gotten to the area where at one point in the beta updates, the tracks in a four track section were all crisscrossing each other. I have no clue how to fix these things and if it remains confined to a small area, I will just ignore the problem. I think a fix could be to re-download the original route but then I would have to try and re-create all the little modifications including track markers that I had to place to make my AI passenger trains cross over and back to some of the stations.

If I actually knew how to do things, I would add Gus & Ya Ya's ice ball cart beside the " Trench " in the Northside part of Pittsburgh and add the museum and observation area at the famous Horseshoe Bend.

Thanks for this great route!

Wild Willy the Wacko

That's the great part of Trainz! Just like a model railroad, we can fiddle and fuss all we want and enjoy the program most of the time.

To fix telegraph lines, try straightening them just as you would a road. This will sometimes put them where they're supposed to go and if that doesn't work you may need to put in another spline point, try again and manually move the poles out of the way.

I haven't used CPC in ages and need to look at it again along with the instructions on how to set it up.

You make it sound easy, BUT !

JCitron said:

That's the great part of Trainz! Just like a model railroad, we can fiddle and fuss all we want and enjoy the program most of the time.

To fix telegraph lines, try straightening them just as you would a road. This will sometimes put them where they're supposed to go and if that doesn't work you may need to put in another spline point, try again and manually move the poles out of the way.

I haven't used CPC in ages and need to look at it again along with the instructions on how to set it up.

Click to expand...

I'm not a route builder and a slow learner. Maybe I could do it if I knew how to straighten a road but I have no clue.

I'm always torn between my love of steamers and my love of my Raildriver !

I barely get by adding water and coaling towers to favorite routes so I can drive my open-ended sessions under steam !

My next job since updating to build 117655 is to drive my version of the Rocky Mountains Montana Track and see if any of my additions are now detached like my B 13 coal mine at Bear Creek and my added portal at Whitefish. If there is too much destroyed by what ever is causing these detachments I may as well start all over from the original.

But, thanks, all help is appreciated by this old dog trying to learn new tricks.

Wild Willy the Wacko

WildWillyWacko said:

I'm not a route builder and a slow learner. Maybe I could do it if I knew how to straighten a road but I have no clue.

I'm always torn between my love of steamers and my love of my Raildriver !

I barely get by adding water and coaling towers to favorite routes so I can drive my open-ended sessions under steam !

My next job since updating to build 117655 is to drive my version of the Rocky Mountains Montana Track and see if any of my additions are now detached like my B 13 coal mine at Bear Creek and my added portal at Whitefish. If there is too much destroyed by what ever is causing these detachments I may as well start all over from the original.

But, thanks, all help is appreciated by this old dog trying to learn new tricks.

Wild Willy the Wacko

Click to expand...

I understand. I'll see if I can help.

The newer version appears to have fixed the broken splines and twisted tracks. You might find a few places that need adjustments, but they seem pretty good on my very large route when I explored it. Speaking of things, I nearly destroyed the route when I removed too many pine trees and turned a pine forested mountain into bare rocks. When I came across that, my hear hit my stomach and I felt totally devastated. I ended up finding an old, and I mean really old backup and was able to restore the section with bare mounts. Recently, I came across some other issues with textures that got weird and lost their mapping, so I have blocks instead of smooth textures. I've got to figure out that part and see what's going on.

Anyway, to straighten roads, or any splines, in Surveyor, it's not so difficult.

Click on the Scenery items tab where you place trees and buildings.
Click on tab over in the same pull-out and you'll see spline-assets such as roads, fences, wires, etc.

In this interface, you'll see what appears to be two lines, a red and a white one next to each other.

Click on that tool and then click on your telegraph poles. When you do this, the wires will twist one way or the other, or even straighten which is what you want.

If that doesn't work, you'll need to add in additional spline points.

Click on the Advanced tools. "Advanced" in Classic Surveyor because these were advanced tools in 2001! Here there are additional options to adjust the height of splines, and add in spline points, etc. You want to add in a spline point.
Click on the add spline point.
Click on your telegraph poles.

With splines you move them by clicking on the move object (splines in this case) and clicking on a spline point (circle).

You may have to do this to move the splines out of the way by adding in more than one point as you go a long.

I finally followed up on part of this suggestion !

Tony_Hilliam said:

Do you still have the ability to check the route in TRS19?
Might be worth reviewing session versus route layers there.
Also might be worth resaving in the latest TRS19 version and importing the new save to see if it behaves consistently or not.
If it is also broken, then it's probably worth submitting a bug report and we'll get qa to check your route out - if we can repro then we can work out a fix from there.

Click to expand...

Maybe I made a rash decision a while back: Thinking that I just had to bite the bullet and go with 2022, I deleted 2019. I was depressed about being forced to update from a build that I thought worked good for me just because I became a Gold member.

I was looking through my " Downloads " folder and found an off-line installer for 2019 build 111951 and I used that to re-install 2019. I decided that I would only set this install up to use with my favorite route that was not working in 2022.

I just finished doing some testing and:

1. Central Portal Control is working fine with all portals emitting immediately and completely.

2. The AI that is supposed to go to the other end of the route to exit into a portal can now see a path to it.

3. My driver consist now passes over the B 13 industry track without derailing.

The last testing of the route that I did in 2022 indicated many more broken paths and derailment points and I have not checked them in this new install of 2019 but I think I'm going to have a lot of fun on my favorite route checking them out in the next few days !

Something I noticed while building my asset base was that there is a new version of Central Portal Control than the one I used to create my session in the first place and maybe I should try that in 2022 but why can't we have control from portals directly that includes immediate emissions, or, if there is such a portal, what is the name of it????

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

I guess I'm proving myself to be " full of IT again "

WildWillyWacko said:

Maybe I made a rash decision a while back: Thinking that I just had to bite the bullet and go with 2022, I deleted 2019. I was depressed about being forced to update from a build that I thought worked good for me just because I became a Gold member.

I was looking through my " Downloads " folder and found an off-line installer for 2019 build 111951 and I used that to re-install 2019. I decided that I would only set this install up to use with my favorite route that was not working in 2022.

I just finished doing some testing and:

1. Central Portal Control is working fine with all portals emitting immediately and completely.

2. The AI that is supposed to go to the other end of the route to exit into a portal can now see a path to it.

3. My driver consist now passes over the B 13 industry track without derailing.

The last testing of the route that I did in 2022 indicated many more broken paths and derailment points and I have not checked them in this new install of 2019 but I think I'm going to have a lot of fun on my favorite route checking them out in the next few days !

Something I noticed while building my asset base was that there is a new version of Central Portal Control than the one I used to create my session in the first place and maybe I should try that in 2022 but why can't we have control from portals directly that includes immediate emissions, or, if there is such a portal, what is the name of it????

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

Click to expand...

I started to explore my route and I was reminded that my original session had a driver diesel that has some kind of flaw in that the brake keeps spontaniously applying and I have to keep hitting the D key to release it so I saved the session under a new name and went in and replaced that engine with something else and when I tried to drive that saved session, things were broke again.

Dare I do an update to 2019 build 111951?

I think I will explore the original session with the bad diesel first!

Wild Willy the Wacko

Remember we discussed having " Edit Trains " accessible in " Driver Mode " instead of

WildWillyWacko said:

I started to explore my route and I was reminded that my original session had a driver diesel that has some kind of flaw in that the brake keeps spontaniously applying and I have to keep hitting the D key to release it so I saved the session under a new name and went in and replaced that engine with something else and when I tried to drive that saved session, things were broke again.

Dare I do an update to 2019 build 111951?

I think I will explore the original session with the bad diesel first!

Wild Willy the Wacko

Click to expand...

Instead of having to go into Surveyor to edit trains?

You could not understand why some wanted to keep it and the above problem is a good point. Surveyor requires a save that either changes the beginning of a " Session " or save as a new " Session " . If I drive my session with the bad diesel and do a save of my driver progress and later restart from that kind of save, my route is not broken. I can't test the old method of editing trains on the fly cause it's not available any more and I wonder if editing on the fly and then saving driver progress would break the route. I do know that saving a new session does break my route so it seems like I am stuck with the session as it is with no chance of making any change at all without trashing the whole thing.

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko