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Thread: An Open Letter to N3V

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    ... I still have no intention to use the subscription models as they seem to me (generalisation alert) to be paying to get access to the latest (beta) versions and therefore paying extra to beta test.

    ....
    You're not the first to mention that and I got so tired of testing betas that I threw in the towel long ago. I might download a beta but only for curiosity's sake since I would have no intention of committing something like a route to an unstable beta.

    I have several software subscriptions and none of them have version numbers like 2019 or 2022. Their version number are just a series of number streams. TBH, I have no idea of the versions of those software packages other than I know I have the latest version. Maybe N3V should stop marketing old versions and just sell the latest, with or without extras.

    Paul


  2. #47
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    Trainz+ was really an economic no-brainer for me, despite being reluctant about software subscriptions in general.
    It provides access to new features and capabilities; there's always the latest betas to explore and to provide feedback on the future development of the product; includes a First Class Ticket; Plus I took advantage of the earlier offer to 'keep TRS22 forever'.
    In practical terms, this has meant I have had the opportunity to participate in and evaluate Multi-Player Server and Surveyor 2.0 - both worthy new developmental additions to the simulator. Neither is 'done' yet, but to have the opportunity to help shape the future development of these features is priceless.
    Hat's off to Tony and the team for their customer-centric comms, too. The Discord channels for Creators, MPS beta-testers - and the like - are superb extensions to the Trainz learning community offerings and allow incomparable global SIG community dialogue for Trainz users.
    My current PC build (117669) is solid and dependable despite it being a beta build. It is smooth to operate and largely error free. Performance on the same hardware is demonstrably superior to TRS19-Platinum, which I still consider to be a great-value product.
    We are very fortunate to have such a strong community supporting an increasingly more capable and performant Railroad Simulator - and for that we can thank Tony_Hilliam and N3V.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by FootplatePhil View Post
    Everyone is a winner!
    The only potential downside I can think of is that N3V may be losing potential beta testers who are not prepared to pay extra to do so. Unless there is another route to beta testing?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris2001trainz2010 View Post
    it still baffles me that people would enthusiastically rather pay almost triple the amount of money over a 3-year period than spend $70 once. unless you limit your subscription to around 13 month or so, you're basically paying multiples of the price of the base game
    You are not comparing Apples to Apples. Most people who buy from N3V don't just pruchase the main app (TRS22). They more than likely purchase other things like a FCT and DLC. I just sat down and priced everything out. Why don't you try it just as an experiment?

    I based everything on a single yearly payment. Compare 1/3 of the app cost (TRS22) (new app to buy every 3 years), a FCT, one "major" route, one "minor" route, and one nice loco. That total comes out to the same yearly price as Gold subscripton. So if you buy the app only then you are correct. The subscription is a waste of money. But if you purchase more than what I list, a subscription will save you money.

    Why can't people see/admit that it is up to the customers buying habits? Everyone misses the fact that Gold and Silver includes a lot more than just TRS22 by itself. You cannot compare an outright purchase with a subscripton and to do so is very misleading. Believe me, I am not advocating either way. A person should do what works for them. But we need to be honest about it.
    Last edited by 1611mac; June 14th, 2022 at 03:17 PM.
    - - . -

  5. #50
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    To add to what 1611mac has posted above, as a Gold subscriber I also get access to a wide range of free DLC assets, both routes and rolling stock, that non-subscribers have to pay for. I have already downloaded several of these offerings.
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  6. #51
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    Same here, not much i want on the Content Store. But it is made available through my Gold membership.

    I get an FCT (not always good speeds though). Access to new in game content and new features, before the masses.

    Plus a copy of TRS22, all for the reasonable sum of £12+ a month. Which i can cancel at any time and return to at any time.

    So there isn't the Sword Of Damocles, hanging over your head. To commit to anything long term.

  7. #52
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    Tony, just keep going as you are. Only deviate if your accountant sends up warning flares. Once you allow customers views to run your business it is time to head for retirement in Fiji. They should be considered, but the monthly reports have higher value. Respond "gently" to the expressed needs but do not make any significant changes. This is an artificial bump in the road.

    Do you want a predctanle monthly revenue stream or will you become dependent upon new sales and the marketing that requires. Your product is mature. Stay the course - one time $$ for purchase. An annual renewal. Predictable subscription income so you can borrow money for financing product developments.

    Keep it simple. Keep it clear. Keep it predictable.
    Last edited by boleyd; June 14th, 2022 at 06:33 AM. Reason: wording
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcas1986 View Post
    You're not the first to mention that and I got so tired of testing betas that I threw in the towel long ago. I might download a beta but only for curiosity's sake since I would have no intention of committing something like a route to an unstable beta.
    Beta testing does take some stamina and sometimes nerves of steel. N3V have always, to my knowledge, advised their beta testers to not continue development of their current work-in-progress routes in a beta version. Although I have often thought that the best way to test a beta is to use it for serious route development. I did that once and got "burnt", but at least I had pre-beta backups.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcas1986 View Post
    Maybe N3V should stop marketing old versions and just sell the latest, with or without extras.
    From their Trainz Store site you can buy older versions at greatly reduced prices - T:ANE at $US6.99 for example - but if that gets new users into the product who may later decide to purchase the latest version then it serves a useful purpose. I certainly have no complaints.
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  9. #54
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    Just like they have a cheaper gold that has just content, and plus that has content + features, why couldn't they make a cheaper subscription that has just features? I still wouldn't subscribe to it, but I was just wondering.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dundun92 View Post
    Just like they have a cheaper gold that has just content, and plus that has content + features, why couldn't they make a cheaper subscription that has just features? I still wouldn't subscribe to it, but I was just wondering.
    You got that wrong, Just content without any Trainz is Trainz Silver

    Trainz Gold Plus has features, DLC and FCT and access to legacy versions you might not have at $129.49 / year

    Trainz Plus which is cheaper just has the features and FCT and again access to legacy versions you might not have but no DLC at $69:49 / year

    Note the FCT is $34.69 per year and is included with Plus and Gold Plus so for Plus you are effectively paying $34.80 just for the TRS22 part and £34.69 for the FCT.
    Last edited by clam1952; June 14th, 2022 at 12:42 PM.
    Malc


  11. #56
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    Wow I really got that mixed up . Understood now, Thanks Malc.
    Last edited by dundun92; June 14th, 2022 at 12:48 PM.

  12. #57
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    Very True.
    I have bought most of Trainz versions and have had great fun for many years and met some good people along the way.
    I have dropped off on the forum for a few years from health reasons, but still played with Trainz from time to time.
    but will not be paying into the annual fee of Trainz 22
    I myself have been waiting a long, long time to see the diesel/fuel having run down and needing to be topped up in stations and having the ability to turn all engines off and not just some payware engines i have bought separately.
    When this will ever happen ,I do not know as it should have been the first ever ideas implemented surely.
    But i won't hold my breath as i believe it will never happen
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  13. #58
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    but will not be paying into the annual fee of Trainz 22
    Trainz 22 does not involve an "annual fee". You can buy it outright with a single one off purchase, no further payments required.

    I myself have been waiting a long, long time to see the diesel/fuel having run down and needing to be topped up in stations and having the ability to turn all engines off and not just some payware engines i have bought separately.
    When this will ever happen ,I do not know as it should have been the first ever ideas implemented surely.
    But i won't hold my breath as i believe it will never happen
    That is the problem when you have a game (sorry, I meant "reality simulation") that has a large and very passionate fan base. Each subgroup insists that their "must have and cannot do without feature" has to be given absolute top priority for immediate implementation in the very next release over every other subgroups "must have and cannot do without feature". The list is almost endless. A selection from posts I have read these last few weeks:-


    • more realism (what that means varies widely between groups)
    • better AI
    • working train timetables
    • accurate sunrise/sunset times
    • dispatcher control
    • bring back the onscreen undo/redo buttons
    • fix night lighting
    • remove car horns at grade crossings
    • diesel engine startups and refueling (and my personal "must have" - why not real time coal fired steam startups from a cold boiler?)


    If N3V had half the programming team that any of Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, EA, etc had, it could all be done "overnight". Tony recently announced that because of the take-up of Trainz Plus subscriptions he was recently able to employ two more programmers. Perhaps that is the answer.
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  14. #59
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    pware - I agree except for the line "The list is almost endless". I would say "The list is endless!"
    Tony Hilliam

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  15. #60

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    Grain of salt.

    The Trainz Faithful will pay 20 cents a day for the experience.

    Other users avoid this program. The endless CDP hunts, error checking, database rebuilds, which version is which, which version do I have?

    That puts off a lot of users. The graphics improvements have a lot of people looking. The old model of milking a game engine out turns most people off.

    N3V has a new game engine. Split the DLS off into an actual repository of assets that meet a certain criteria. Dump this never ending insanity. Draw a frickin line. Somewhere, anywhere. You can raise prices of the program, you aren't going to make Jack unless you attract new customers. End users are not going to put up with Trainz and the current emphasis on database management.

    Grow a pair and start over. I would respect that and drop 70 bucks on a "new" version without all the garbage this current state of affairs brings. The milking of the DLS is on you, not me. If I wanted an asset from 2004, I would load it. N3V needs to take a hard look at itself. They are leaving a lot of potential users out to milk a DLS full of content that won't even pass their error checking routine if they weren't hidden as built in.

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