capdiamont
Active member
they still do beta versions for the regular versions, just set your steam to a beta stream.
An Open Letter to N3V
- Thread starter jacksonbarno
- Start date
they still do beta versions for the regular versions, just set your steam to a beta stream.
capdiamont
Active member
it isn’t that the OSs have a cost to upgrade, nor Trainz, but with new OSs there is new code needed to be programmed to work around this or take advantage of the new features. This time needed to fix what is broken or new features is time and money that users don’t often consider that takes away from implementing requested feature X.
I just want to drop one final note in here meant for all but esp for N3V.
As a person who is always looking for the profit motive in EVERYTHING and always whingeing how the corporate world no longer seeks to make things, but is focused solely on making money I honestly feel that N3V is an exception.
They are not in this to make bank, they are in this to make Trainz. Since they exist in this reality they must also make money but regardless of subscription models and developmental focus it seems clear to me that that making Trainz and serving us IS as much as a top motivation as practical.
We can all play armchair CEO as we please but at the end of the day there are bills to pay. Full stop.
As a person who is always looking for the profit motive in EVERYTHING and always whingeing how the corporate world no longer seeks to make things, but is focused solely on making money I honestly feel that N3V is an exception.
They are not in this to make bank, they are in this to make Trainz. Since they exist in this reality they must also make money but regardless of subscription models and developmental focus it seems clear to me that that making Trainz and serving us IS as much as a top motivation as practical.
We can all play armchair CEO as we please but at the end of the day there are bills to pay. Full stop.
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If you want Surveyor 2.0 (which is the primary big new thing in '22 people want) you have to buy a subscription.
peter
I don't think MPS was anywhere near the top of the community list. I am still perplexed why you guys spent so much resources on a feature that nobody requested, and will benefit a relatively small amount of people, while ignoring all the other requests. There are so many other things on the "infinite list" that people have wanted that those resources could have been spent on.
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daylightrain
Development Purgatory.
Multiplayer surveyor has been a requested addition since multiplayer was announced in 2010. I’m gland N3V has finally added it however right now it’s very limited in usability for a lot of users due to the being limited to DLS and built in content. Understandable, as MPS is still relatively new to Trainz and I’m sure N3V is working on a solution to allow 3rd party content in MPS, however to say nobody requested multiplayer surveyor is bogus.
I was part of the early, early testing of that when it first was proposed. We had a great time building a route. That was back in the Kickstarter for TANE. Later on, I got to try it again and people really did some great stuff. Unlike the early test, this go around just like the previous beta, is all UDS. While someone is building others can be driving. This is Trainzing at its best and it's too bad that Trainz really didn't work that way, perhaps it will someday but who knows. The routes that some of the people built were quite huge and one route included a hump yard with another area having a seaport, lumber industries, and so on. The content selection was limited but it was doable and included JR's SL signals, various buildings, locomotives, etc. we all use.
There will be additional beta testing and if you're ever interested in Plus, I highly recommend joining just for that.
As A route builder for others to enjoy I am following this thread with great interest.
Currently I am using TRS19 UK edition, build 117009, which I upgraded from T:ANE. I ponder on upgrading from this current TRS19 version to another but find the many choices a tad confusing on which way to go.
The UK edition does not have an FCT facility so many times I have to get a months worth for DLS assets when required. So far this has not been an issue. But upgrading is!
It seems there are but two choices...subscribe or purchase. However, which is best for me to create routes is quite varied with nothing to indicate the best version available to build a route. Judging by the amount of downloads for any route I've made and uploaded to the DLS T:ANE far outweighs TRS19 by a mile [same uploaded route]. Does this indicate many trainz users still favour T:ANE over other versions available?
N3V make amazing leaps forward yet, for me, never sure which way to go. Kinda wonder how many [me's] are out there.
I know the choice is personal depending on what you seek from the SIM but it would be advantageous to know if 'version one' is better for route builders than 'version two'. The advent of S2 maybe the catalyst for making an informed decision. Not sure yet.
I'll continue to watch this thread mainly to see if I get any inclination on best version direction to utilise.
Cheers,
Val.
Currently I am using TRS19 UK edition, build 117009, which I upgraded from T:ANE. I ponder on upgrading from this current TRS19 version to another but find the many choices a tad confusing on which way to go.
The UK edition does not have an FCT facility so many times I have to get a months worth for DLS assets when required. So far this has not been an issue. But upgrading is!
It seems there are but two choices...subscribe or purchase. However, which is best for me to create routes is quite varied with nothing to indicate the best version available to build a route. Judging by the amount of downloads for any route I've made and uploaded to the DLS T:ANE far outweighs TRS19 by a mile [same uploaded route]. Does this indicate many trainz users still favour T:ANE over other versions available?
N3V make amazing leaps forward yet, for me, never sure which way to go. Kinda wonder how many [me's] are out there.
I know the choice is personal depending on what you seek from the SIM but it would be advantageous to know if 'version one' is better for route builders than 'version two'. The advent of S2 maybe the catalyst for making an informed decision. Not sure yet.
I'll continue to watch this thread mainly to see if I get any inclination on best version direction to utilise.
Cheers,
Val.
Yes, you are right, and I should have said that better. My point is that is has very little use in its current stage, and there are a lot of other things that I think have been wanted a bit more then MPS. I personally haven't seen any requests for it (though I've hardly made a thorough look through all the threads here and there was a period of about a year that i wasn't on these fourms) which is why I made that remark like that. Some other users also had made arguments about how (few) people would benefit directly from multiplayer surveyor relative to other requests. https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?167965-The-needs-of-the-many.
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Given apple updates their OS at least once a year ( or at least, it seems like they do ) , and each time they do, it breaks Trainz in some way ,I'm surprised that NV3 even support the platform anymore given how few of us seem to use it. I'm probably going to finally jump ship after 25 years as even if I paid $3600 for a mac studio to run 2022 , it wouldn't support turf fx. I can see why they have gone to subscriptions, they need the revenue flow. Even if I'll never subscribe.....(unless they make the app subscription only) .....it makes more sense to them to have that steady cash stream..
That is true for a lot of things in life. A few months ago I signed up to the Disney+ streaming subscription service, my only streaming subscription, because I wanted to see the Marvel TV series and mini-series that they were offering and did not want to wait up to a year or more before they were available on DVD (if ever). No-one forced me to join and I could have simply waited and saved the subscription fee (but would have had to pay for the DVDs instead).
The clubs that I belong to give their members (annual subscription required) benefits such as discounts at their restaurants and gym facilities, special offers, etc that are not available to customers who walk in "off the street".
Sydney is becoming notorious for its toll roads, some commuters pay $100s each week to get to and from work. No-one is forcing them to pay and they always have the choice of the toll roads or the normal (free) roads.
To apply the toll road analogy - you can pay extra to join the "express lane" for new features or you can stay on the standard update path and wait until those same features appear in future editions. You have the choice.
Why are some people against N3V getting returns, or more importantly regular stable returns, for their efforts?
Which proves my point. It would not matter which feature they implemented, it will be criticized by one group or another for not being the "most wanted" one that they wanted implemented.
From the marketing point of view it would be optically much better use saying "...less than 1 cent per hour...", wouldn't be.......? It sounds much cheaper than 20 cents per day. Just to make the absurdity perfect ;-)
amigacooke
Well-known member
I don’t think most people are, they’re just explaining their personal reasons for preferring one method or the other.
I agree and it is a choice that we are all able to make based on our individual needs and circumstances. But there are a few posters that seem to see subscription only features as a threat (to whom or what I do not know) or something similar. Perhaps they do not appreciate that the subscription system benefits everyone including those who do not subscribe?
My thoughts.
We do also need to factor into the equation,if we were model railroaders, just how much we would have to spend , how much space we would need and what skills we would have to develop in order to do even a fraction of what we can achieve with a train sim . looked at if from that perspective train sims are a no brainer in terms of cost, they enable us to do far more then we ever could if we were making model railroads in real life.
We have been asking for:
1:Realistic skybox
2.Moisture on windows as in rain droplets coursing down the glass and being wiped away with wipers.(N3V's competitor does this well, in fact quite a few years of doing well)
3.Illumination from streetlights and other scenery items. (Scenery nightmode similar to that which loco give)
I would buy Trs22 if these items were included rather than surveyor on steroids. The above improvements have been asked for and talked about for well over ten years....
1:Realistic skybox
2.Moisture on windows as in rain droplets coursing down the glass and being wiped away with wipers.(N3V's competitor does this well, in fact quite a few years of doing well)
3.Illumination from streetlights and other scenery items. (Scenery nightmode similar to that which loco give)
I would buy Trs22 if these items were included rather than surveyor on steroids. The above improvements have been asked for and talked about for well over ten years....
Many of us are older, we worked hard and grew up with the principle, you work then you get payed
Pay first and hope you get something, goes against this.
Development time...
No-one asked to remove Railyard (TANE)
No-one asked for PBrized grid with fake buttons (19)
No-one asked for Undo to be hidden in a menu (19SP1)
No-one asked for bookmarks to be combined with asset filters (19SP1)
No-one asked for a new map to be a green carpet (19SP4)
No-one asked for trackmarks triggers etc to be PBRized (19SP5)
We did ask for no rain and no snow in tunnels, but not in a way framerates are cut in half, so now we turn Phys-X off
TNI plugin is a nice thought, but no use if no-one programs for it
No-one asked for map options to be hidden in a menu, breaking a scriptable minimap in Driver (19SP5)
No-one asked to remove AA, then later (after us begging) put it back
We asked to REPAIR the consist GUI, instead it just got removed
We asked for newer more detailed more diverse passengers, but also that they are not totally dark at night
and we ask, to be able to use more different sets (can be added to Region to select)
None of us want to play "Asset repair Simulator" or "DBR simulator" we want to play Trainz
because we love it
The Community+ContentCreators+n3v make this the best TrainSim, its our combined force that makes it great
get to work and work together ! If n3v listens, we will pay no worry there.
Pay first and hope you get something, goes against this.
Development time...
No-one asked to remove Railyard (TANE)
No-one asked for PBrized grid with fake buttons (19)
No-one asked for Undo to be hidden in a menu (19SP1)
No-one asked for bookmarks to be combined with asset filters (19SP1)
No-one asked for a new map to be a green carpet (19SP4)
No-one asked for trackmarks triggers etc to be PBRized (19SP5)
We did ask for no rain and no snow in tunnels, but not in a way framerates are cut in half, so now we turn Phys-X off
TNI plugin is a nice thought, but no use if no-one programs for it
No-one asked for map options to be hidden in a menu, breaking a scriptable minimap in Driver (19SP5)
No-one asked to remove AA, then later (after us begging) put it back
We asked to REPAIR the consist GUI, instead it just got removed
We asked for newer more detailed more diverse passengers, but also that they are not totally dark at night
and we ask, to be able to use more different sets (can be added to Region to select)
None of us want to play "Asset repair Simulator" or "DBR simulator" we want to play Trainz
because we love it
The Community+ContentCreators+n3v make this the best TrainSim, its our combined force that makes it great
get to work and work together ! If n3v listens, we will pay no worry there.
amigacooke
Well-known member
What might be putting noses out of joint is the not particularly well hidden implication that subscription users are 'better customers'. That might be true from N3V's point of view, but to put it bluntly, I'm interested in Trainz and only in N3V in as much as they support and develop that product
