Here's why I think so many people left Trainz recently

Control Point Simulations and Greencoast Studios shut down recently, making me wonder why so many content creators have left Trainz. I think it's because in Trainz, you have to deal with so many errors and unknown dependencies. In addition to that, the other simulators look more stable to most people, which could also be why most creators have left Trainz. Also, most modelers make the mainstream stuff like the EMD F7 or the [FONT=&quot]LB&SCR E2, so there could be a little bit less interest for content outside of those.[/FONT]

I’m certain CPS closed actually becaused they were bullied by railway companies threatening them with legal action. To do with trademarks/copyright.

I doubt this is why. I never knew about these guys until I looked in the Payware forum one day. Not to bash them, but I wasn't interested in what they offered. Like anything like this, there are many reasons why they closed their websites with finances being one of them. Copyrights may also be the issue, but that's something of another horse not colored normally, and that plays out on another level. The companies have shutdown real model companies or fined them for not complying. If the modeler did the right thing, like asking to use the logos, this helps with this, and the company will usually supply a very large book full of guidelines on how not to use the logo and where and where not to place it. I know because I worked in the printing and graphics industry for over 25 years in addition to Information Technology.

The other thing is these guys are only a pinprick on the surface of the world. While some people may have used their models, there are a gazillion others out there. Trainz is a hobby and hobbies gain and lose interest. Not everyone plays Trainz 24/7/365 even if some of us do, or it seems that way. Right now, the northern hemisphere is heading into warmer weather, which means Trainzers are now outside and doing other things. Trainz you see, is like a regular model railroad in this respect. Most spend time inside fiddling around with their basement empires but come the springtime and it's outside to do other things such as the dreaded yard cleanup, maintenance, and renovations. Sometimes, people are lucky and get to do some railfanning too in between.

People also really do have lives outside of Trainz in addition to this being springtime going into summer. People travel, work, some work multiple jobs, and some leave the hobby because life gets in the way. I know when I was in college, even taking night classes, I rarely showed up here in the forums and didn't even download an asset in Content Manager for months at a time let alone use Trainz for more than maybe 15 minutes. The simple reason was I had no time to do that at all. I was taking classes that required me to write a paper a week and these were 10-week classes. This was in addition to working full-time and attending lectures. As you can see, there was no time for Trainz or other hobbies.

People just quit using the program. This is for numerous reasons such as growing up and getting married, having a family, moving, going to college, working too much, and finding other things including other hobbies. In summary Trainz is a hobby even if it seems to be a way of life and is for some people.

I get it, everyone has lives outside of Trainz, but the points that I made about faulty assets and missing dependencies are still true.

Could it also be due in part to the little thanks content creators receive when things do work as planned. I'm not a content creator but worked in industry long enough to understant compatibility and interchangeabilty and I would suggest that the majority of content creators could only guarantee that their creation will work on their specific build of Trainz and configuration of PC because thats probably all they have access to, and to go on. Throw in a handfull of 'freeware', 'payware' and a slice of Trainz Plus etc. and I'm surprised at times anything still works for very long. I'm not suggesting that we should be grovelling to content creators but a little gratitude to those providing us with freeware and a little positive feedback to them all when it doesn't quite go as planned may just encourage them to stick with it and resolve such issues. Peter

d_doll01 said:

... why so many content creators have left Trainz. I think it's because in Trainz, you have to deal with so many errors and unknown dependencies.

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Speculation based on what evidence? The terms "many" and "most" are vague and subjective (just like the way you have used those two words "many" times in your post). Such claims really need some quantitative evidence. Can you identify the "many" creators who have left? A far better analysis would be to quantify the percentage of departing creators?

As others have pointed out in posts above, creators and non-creator users come and go for a variety of reasons. It is not uncommon (another subjective term) to see "I'm back!" posts in these forums. I can even recall such posts from users/creators who departed in frustration and/or anger over some issue or another. A few (another subjective term) have even stated that they came back after trying out the other sims.

My speculations.

I would provide my speculations but I have none as I'm a boring person. I do know that I see more Content being uploaded (to CM) than I could ever use in a lifetime..

pware said:

Speculation based on what evidence? The terms "many" and "most" are vague and subjective (just like the way you have used those two words "many" times in your post). Such claims really need some quantitative evidence. Can you identify the "many" creators who have left? A far better analysis would be to quantify the percentage of departing creators?

As others have pointed out in posts above, creators and non-creator users come and go for a variety of reasons. It is not uncommon (another subjective term) to see "I'm back!" posts in these forums. I can even recall such posts from users/creators who departed in frustration and/or anger over some issue or another. A few (another subjective term) have even stated that they came back after trying out the other sims.

My speculations.

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The term "so many" might be an exaggeration.

d_doll01 said:

The term "so many" might be an exaggeration.

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Its all relative. Even one good creator (and aren't they all good?) leaving for whatever reason is a loss to the community. The fact that you have posted your concerns over these departures is a good sign, it indicates that you care about the future of Trainz, as we all do.

However, as others have pointed out, I do not believe that there is a serious problem here. Just looking at yesterday's (from the perspective of my date/time zone) DLS statistics for 22-April there are 93 new uploads from 15 different creators (including your good-self). Even our old friend gramma has new offerings. Some of those creators I have never seen before (or possibly just never noticed before) so I think that the future of Trainz is not so much "gloom and doom".

My thoughts, and thank you for your contributions.

An ebb and flow based upon non-quantitative factors. The entire subject is speculative. WHY is one variable that will remain a mystery. It is the kind of number that should concern a marketing manager who may undertake an informal investigation in order to design a more attractive environment for developers. We tend to assign values to unknowns based upon our own views. A proper look needs a marketing company to construct a questionnaire and value the responses based upon known market factors. Very costly.

On another note we are actually in a golden era of content for Trainz. Not too long ago we didnt have the great diversity in content creation and creators like we have today. Its hard to believe there was a time before, JointedRail, RRmods, DaveSnow, TrainzForge and K&L, Or any of your favorite trainz site/creator. I think we have the most diverse and best content creation, with a game that is continually updated. You can build a railway on marz or a prototypical layout in the United States and anywhere in between.

I agree with hert on this one, we have a lot of new and upcoming creators like myself and older creators developing their skills to extraordinary levels and inspiring the new generation of creators for Trainz.

I don’t plan on leaving Trainz, or content creating for that matter, but life gets in the way for a lot of us. Many Trainzers are adults with jobs, kids, a wife, etc. who have to devote time to that, and cutting the game out for a while frees up time. Some Trainzers are also college and high school students, and need to deal with exams, EOC’s, SAT, ACT, state tests, etc.

So when your favorite creator or creators leave, it’s usually one of these reasons or something devastating (like what happened to CPS). All we can hope for is that they make a return someday.

Trainz is Trainz.

I enjoy it for what it is and what it brings.

I also enjoy OpenRails and what it brings. I am bouncing between TANE and TS19 deciding which I prefer on my system. I am loving OpenRails as well. After squaring up my taxes, property taxes due next month, I will probably add about $300 in Trainz routes and Trainsimulation products.

I don't really see any one of them better than the other. Each has their place.

KotangaGirl said:

A factor too with forum members leaving or becoming less active is that some of us are getting older and have health problems to go with that as well.

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I can sympathise with that as I have just recently started my 72nd trip around the Sun. Fortunately my health is good (I have found that good wine helps) and my partner and I have, so far, avoided any contact with the Covid-19 virus although some of our friends and relatives have not been so lucky. During the last few years Trainz has been a mental life-saver for me as we have not been able to travel, even to the movies or theatre, as much as we normally would.

The claim that Trainz is dying, or creators are leaving in droves, appears in these forums every few years, often after a major new release or SP update. The worst period of frustration with Trainz that I personally experienced was with the initial release of T:ANE - it was not ready for release and had far too many bugs. The release was, I believe, dictated by contractual arrangements with a major (and unnamed) distributor. SP and HF updates eventually turned it into a very good and stable product - but like any software product, Trainz will never be perfect nor will it ever met every-ones expectations.

Who would ever want to be a software developer? Especially if you are catering to a very fanatical and passionate group such as hobbyists, or even worse, railway enthusiasts:hehe: No matter what you do it will never be enough or good enough. Release a product before it is ready (e.g. T:ANE) or delay its release to fix "issues" and you will get a firestorm of protests. Fail to immediately fix some-one's "major critical issue" that few, if anyone else, has experienced and there will be threats of "leaving Trainz forever" or claims that it is the "worst version ever released". There will always be posts after each new release that the previous version is far superior and that they (the poster) will never buy the new version - but strangely, after a while the new version will quietly appear on their timeline.

All of this is good. It shows that we users are passionate about Trainz and want to see it continue indefinitely into the future, even if we want it to go in different and sometimes contradictory directions. I am always impressed at how Tony and the team at N3V have been able to navigate this maze of demands, expectations and criticism (and it has to be said, sometimes vitriolic) while keeping their cool and more importantly, keep going with the work.

Trainz has been with us for over 20 years now, they must be doing something right.

My thoughts.

Where is your evidence? What statistical model are you using to justify your Post heading? Is it a feeling you have, or is the statement based on factual evidence?

I think that that is now a "dead horse", in my opinion.

A factor too with forum members leaving or becoming less active is that some of us are getting older and have health problems to go with that as well. I'm a lot less active here than I was due to my own health problems and I'm not doing much in the way of content creation now. I'm still interested in the hobby, but I just can't be as active as I once was.​

Narcolepsy is not napping.

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I fully agree. With my ninety-first birthday in a couple of weeks time and impaired vision I can no longer concentrate on a computer screen for very long, nor indeed keep up with the increasing complexities of the latest versions of Trainz.
Ray

I have very good access to all the numbers. Luckily so many more people are arriving than leaving.

I think they are doing fine. People come and go. I’ve had many versions and yet I haven’t been that active. Certainly not active on the forums until recently. People want more realism, which brings more complexity and demands on the computers.