Memory use

My build 117009 is hogging my PC memory, 32Gb installed.
My route is large 48 Mb and session 974 Kb
Are there any options in Trainz to limit memory utilization.
CPU 45%, Memory 16%, GPU 35%

My build 117092 Memory 32 Gb in use 12.4 Gb Cached 18.4 Gb Paged pool 570 Mb
CPU about 36% GPU about 11% GPU memory 3.8/24.0 Gb
Route 59.0 Mb Session 5.2 Mb

My figures are very similar to those posted above for the same build and route size.

As far as I am aware, there are no options in Trainz for limiting memory utilization, or at least I have never found any. Most software applications normally leave that to the OS to manage.

Could you define what you mean by "hogging" and what are the issues you are seeing?

I had a total lock up and prior to this performance monitor was indicating high total usage.
Just looked again and all appears to be normal in the monitor.
Will advise if any other issues appear.

it may not have been Trainz related - AV software, Windows Update, background process taking over, etc.

TANE and up are 64-bit applications the OS allocates as much RAM as it can to the applications and moves itself to a smaller stub to make room for the application. The older versions of Trainz such as TS12 and below were 32-bit applications and could only work within a 4 GB memory space regardless of the amount of RAM installed. With 64-bit systems, having more RAM the better to allow for as much as possible for the applications.

What can kill 64-bit applications just the same is lack of physical RAM and too many background applications using up the available RAM that could be instead allocated to applications. Keep in mind no matter how much RAM there is, there's still only just so much to go around.

On my Mac, running any route in either TR19 or TR 22, the more I search through images in Surveyor or in Content Manager, the more Trainz grabs my memory. I can drop from 85% down to 70% and crawl in just a few pages. I have to run my memory cleaner almost constantly. Not being a comp tech I cannot say who's problem it is!

Windows or MAC Event Viewer Etc.....Some thoughts from me.

Unless I missed it here,

I don't see something related to back up processes, for Example, One-Drive, Drop-Box, or similar Cloud Storage programs running in the background. In my experience, more times than I could count, I have Freezes, Total System lockup depending on File Sizes in background, Backup, which is the way most Cloud Systems run per se.....

Also when Running Trainz, which like Windows, is a memory Hog, it want's what it can grab, besides your GPU may be constrained to the limits too, depending on your settings in Trainz.

So best practices is to run as (Vanilla) as you can when Operating or Surveyor Mode, meaning, Shut off all you background programs you can, like Email, File Backup, Music, Facebook that is going to try and steal your precious RAM.......

I'm pretty sure all of us are avid Multitaskers and probably have more than a couple things going on under the hood., either by Design or unknowingly.

Windows for example, if my old memory recalls, does at least 100 Compilations why your in Windows, not counting other programs......

Another possibility to see what is going on, Check your Event Manager in windows Log, you might possibly see something that is going on, you were not aware of....

You also want to find out what Programs are loading when you turn on your computers, Software is very sneaky and could be running in the Background, which Virus protection etc has too for our Computer Health.

One of the Cheats I do when I going to play on a large Route, I will switch on Airplane Mode, shut off all non essential Software, and nobody plays with my memory and unless I give permission, except for Windows, which is the top Dog! Just the way it is......

And this might also be of some interest too:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?167562-Builds-for-Macs-Dev-settings

Here is link to Win Event Log:

https://www.howtogeek.com/123646/ht...ndows-event-viewer-is-and-how-you-can-use-it/

Can Windows 10 find Event Viewer?



To access the Event Viewer in Windows 8.1, Windows 10, and Server 2012 R2: Right click on the Start button and select Control Panel > System & Security and double-click Administrative tools. Double-click Event Viewer. Select the type of logs that you wish to review (ex: Application, System)

If for MAC, this may be of use for you too.......?:wave:


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2510965

and/or

https://www.wikihow.com/Check-the-Event-Log-on-PC-or-Mac

Trainz members

I have an old HP Pavillion p6-2171a computer which is over 10 years old.
Windows 7 Pro 64 bit version operating system.
With upgrades I now have 12 gigabytes of CPU ram and 2 gigabytes of GPU ram fitted (maximum DDR3 at 1600 Mhz rating).
Maximum rating for the old Joshua H61 (uATX) motherboard is 1600 Mhz speed.
One terabyte disc hard drive only.

The reason why I kept this PC is because all my older software and games work well.
Some of these games would not work on a newer PC even in windows compatible mode with direct 9c installed.

With the TANE and TRS19 I find that these programs do hog a lot of memory depending on the size of the layout and session run.

As recommended by other Train members I also increased the size of system paging swap file between 18 to 36 gigabytes.
Overtime paging swap files can get fragged up slowing the computer down.
Firstly reset the old paging file to ZERO bytes, reboot the machine, then set the newer page file values.

Took a while for the computer to settle with the new hardware installed and now works well.

Trainz Surveyor mode now runs better in TANE.

Planning to download the newer upgraded Cornish Mainline and Branches route for TRS19 and test it out comparing the memory usage with the older TANE version.

Regards
davies_mike57

I have a new route I have been working on, and even with almost nothing on the baseboards I have found that build 117009 keeps my fans running even when it is just sitting there. There seem to be background processes (Caching?) that keep things very busy even when there is almost nothing there and nothing going on. I will try checking the performance monitors today and narrow it down.

Forester1 said:

I have a new route I have been working on, and even with almost nothing on the baseboards I have found that build 117009 keeps my fans running even when it is just sitting there. There seem to be background processes (Caching?) that keep things very busy even when there is almost nothing there and nothing going on. I will try checking the performance monitors today and narrow it down.

Click to expand...

That's just TRS19 cooking your GPU which we were told is "normal" when we first encountered this in TANE. Trainz is the only program that does this. To prevent my very expensive RTX 3080 from melting away, I use MSI Afterburner and adjust the fans up to the 80% level while lowering the max voltage to about 78% to keep the video card from melting. I can't afford $2000 for a video card and this one came with my system which led to me doing these power and fan tweaks. This setup took me a few days to figure out and also required an additional fan in my case blowing outward through the vent to remove the internal exhaust heat from the video card. I will be blunt here. Dell's new case design is crap and I'm not the only one who has done this.

I've said this before, but some people disagree with me, running electronics at their highest temperatures all the time is not good for the components. They have a particular threshold, yes, but that's the equivalent of running a car at 6000 rpm in the red zone every time it's driven. In electronics, the internal temperatures of the components, is much higher than the external temperature and eventually the bonds break inside. The other issue is when a video card reaches its max temperature, it'll actually throttle down. When this occurs, we end up with that nauseating lugging and stutters as the video card cools down, heats up quickly, then cools down again just below its max threshold of 83 C.

Even if you don't plan to tweak your fans, load in MSI Afterburner anyway and watch the temperature rise up quickly, the power drop with the temperature going down, then rise up quickly again and again repeatedly.

Using my settings, I can keep my 3080 at 80 C max which prevents the lugging and big stutters and there is no loss in performance.

Thanks, I have downloaded MSI Afterburner. What I meant in my post is that prior to SP4 and HF 5, I don't think my fans would be running so much just sitting there doing nothing with very little in place. I agree with those who are talking about memory use, but I think it is more than that, I just think it is doing a lot more in the background than other builds to date. I currently even have shadows off and shader quality to standard, post processing to low and PhysX is unchecked. And still, I am cooking things with an empty route doing nothing. Scares me to think what EMCL or UMR or the Maryland megaroute or the Blue Mountain megaroute is going to do to me with an active session! Finally, I can't help but wonder, given how database intensive this app must surely be, if it doesn't need some database optimizing in the form of indexing, views, stored procedures, etc.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure temperature issues are more down to hardware or combinations of

Currently as a test running my WIP route in AI on TRS19 been running for 25 minutes now Route is 133.7mb
GPU Temperature 68°C
GPU Fan speed 45% that's without messing with anything.
GPU Load 99 to 100%
VRAM in use 4003MB
CPU Temperature 69°C
System Memory used 8015MB
GTX1080 TI, Ryzen7 3880X 16GB DDR4 running Trainz on SSDs.

However on this PC running TRS19, i7 6700K, GTX980, TI It's running at 83°C, Fan at 80% GPU 100% and it's throttling on heat, CPU 68°C and System memory used 8250mb however I am running Firefox and Thunderbird at the same time, Normally I bump up the fan speed with afterburner which drops the temp to around 75.

Neither PCs display any jumping up and down of temperatures and the readings remain pretty much the same.

When Trainz is caching the CPU will be doing a lot more work, if it's use seems high on a route that has been cached check it's not your AV.

According to Nvidia, GPUs are designed to work at 100%, if when running something like TANE upwards it's running at considerably less you probably have a bottlenecking problem between CPU and GPU.

Good discussion going forward here,

I forgot about the Fan Speed, I did throttle my CPU down to 90-95% somewhere in there with limit on heat maximum. Using Reg Power Performance settings.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/a...sing-the-High-performance-power-plan-Windows-

&

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Using+the+High+performance+power+plan+(Windows)

&

https://tunecomp.net/add-high-performance-plan-windows-10-power-options/

And I also left out another important item, I elevate my Laptop about 3-4 Inches on incline from back of it with Chiller PAD, that has 4 large 3"inch Fans, I only use in Summer Time when our house is warmer and outside temps are 100-115 F, our inside gets up to 85-90 sometimes.

Air Conditioning broke, so we have get a whole new system, that's a story for another day......

Laptops are notorious for Heat issues, due to small area of Laptop Design,with limited air flow, however more and more Laptop builders are now design Laptops with lots of small ventilation holes in them, to let the heat out. And it is an improvement over the sealed case designs made long ago.

And hats off to those who still use Win 7, and it works well for your needs. Anytime you can hang onto an older version of win, it's a good thing, as I hear Win 11 isn't all that, and some folks have reverted back to 10 or other older builds because it works.........

One last thing, while I have it my Pea Brain, if your going to mess with your Registry, for sake of your sanity,, back that baby up on USB Boot-able Drive in case you do something wrong.....

Here are some reference articles to help you out.....

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+to+backup+registry+file

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/backup-and-restore-registry-windows

Some folks have had the pleasure of messing up their Registry to the point Win wont boot, and having to do an Re Install of Windows........

I hate to admit this, it did happen to me once about 30 yrs ago, was pain in the neck, and I lost some files too, I didn't have my computer fully backed up...... :'(

Message to clam1952:


Just a thought as a an experiment why not consider:

Close down the afterburner software.


Optimal Vs. Adaptive Nvidia Power Management Mode
The ‘Optimal power’ mode is the default Nvidia power management mode, it controls the clock speeds and voltage of the GPU.
It also has a feature that is known to save power without reducing performance.
While the ‘Adaptive’ mode helps the graphics driver to decide the best performance state according to the data gathered from GPU usage.


The ‘Optimal power’ mode makes the GPU use whatever’s in the frame buffer when nothing on the screen changes instead of rendering a new frame. It uses this feature to improve gaming performance while saving power and this is another reason why the default mode is our recommended Nvidia power management mode. The ‘Adaptive’ mode saves power as well, but it might reduce performance in the process.


Running the game in adaptive mode may reduce the GPU temperature in idle mode, however reduce frame rate performance.


When spending hours using the Trainz Surveyor for editing a route and session I set the NVidia card to adaptive mode and save electrical power consumption.


davies_mike57

davies_mike57 said:

Message to clam1952:


Just a thought as a an experiment why not consider:

Close down the afterburner software.


Optimal Vs. Adaptive Nvidia Power Management Mode
The ‘Optimal power’ mode is the default Nvidia power management mode, it controls the clock speeds and voltage of the GPU.
It also has a feature that is known to save power without reducing performance.
While the ‘Adaptive’ mode helps the graphics driver to decide the best performance state according to the data gathered from GPU usage.


The ‘Optimal power’ mode makes the GPU use whatever’s in the frame buffer when nothing on the screen changes instead of rendering a new frame. It uses this feature to improve gaming performance while saving power and this is another reason why the default mode is our recommended Nvidia power management mode. The ‘Adaptive’ mode saves power as well, but it might reduce performance in the process.


Running the game in adaptive mode may reduce the GPU temperature in idle mode, however reduce frame rate performance.


When spending hours using the Trainz Surveyor for editing a route and session I set the NVidia card to adaptive mode and save electrical power consumption.


davies_mike57

Click to expand...

I've moved on, now got an RTX3070Ti in the Ryzen rig which is running slightly cooler than the 1080Ti, the 1080Ti has moved to the I7 rig and it's temperature is the same as when in the Ryzen rig so no requirement for Afterburner, the 980Ti is currently spare, can't fit it in my spare PC due to it's length and badly placed drive bays, I don't think it would very well with an AMD Phenom 1090T X6 + 16GB DDR3 which would severely bottle neck it.

Idle temperatures:

GTX1080 Ti 47°C - fan speed 0 RPM - GPU chip power draw 35.7 Watts - Win10 21H2 Insider Preview.
RTX3070 Ti 30°C - fan speed 0 RPM - GPU chip power draw 6.5 Watts - Win11 22H2 Insider Beta.

Under load same route on both PCs running at same time in same performance crippling part of route and maximum settings, something I'm investigating as to which assets, probably buildings, are responsible!
GTX1080 Ti 69°C - fan speed 1336 RPM - GPU chip power draw 159 Watts, GPU 99%
RTX3070 Ti 52°C - fan speed 1001 RPM - GPU chip power draw 160 Watts, GPU 99%

Both PCs do have 5 very quiet Case fans in addition to GPU's and CPU coolers and PSUs, both have 750 Watt PSUs.

Note: Still no issues with temperature varying on either setup while under load both GPUs on Optimal.
I've used Adaptive in the past and there is no noticeable difference.


Talking of cooling laptops, a friend of mine got fed up with his wife complaining about her overheating laptop and demanded a cooler for it, as he wasn't prepared to waste any money, he opted for drilling 1 inch diameter holes in her desk! Needless to say that didn't go down very well and in the end it cost him a new Desk and a proper cooler to maintain the peace!

Question about the use of MSI Afterburner - I had been using Asus GPU TweakII to monitor/manage my RTX 2080S. However, I've noticed that Trainz immediately crashes/closes as soon as TweakII is launched. So I'm currently unable to use it. Should I move to Afterburner?

Paul

Try it? It seems to work with most cards, not installed the Asus Tweak or Afterburner with the RTX 3070Ti as I don't seem to need it. Historically Tweak 2 has crashing issues with some games in 2021, there is a Tweak 3 out by the way which might be better, most seem to recommend Afterburner though.

I use afterburner for my 1060, and there is a noticeable framerate increase.