Stingy Creators

Why are there some people out there who create assets, routes, etc. for the game, then deny others the right to use the creations? They want to "keep it for themselves." For heavens sake WHY??! What are they afraid of? Or are they just stubborn and stingy? Makes no sense to me. It's just a computer game. Sure, maybe they did take months and months (years?) to make something, but so what? So what if they release something and someone else changes it around. SO WHAT? I don't understand. We're supposed to be "The Trainz Community." I made thousands of assets but never once did I deny the right for the trainz community the right to play with anything I created. It was all free. And I didn't give a rats ass if someone changed something or reskinned something. It didn't hurt me or foul up my game playing. But there are a few trainzers out there who'd rather never give anything to the community. "It's MINE! It's MINE and you can't have it!!" Sheesh, some people.

Dave

I don't see it as a HUGE problem

I think the real problem with permissions and reskinning isn't if creators allow their stuff to be modified, I think it's a lack of transparency with licenses. Sometimes when I want to reskin something It is hard to tell if I am allowed to upload it to the DLS. I just wish people were more upfront on if there stuff can be re-uploaded. Thankfully, some creators have come out and said that all of there work is allowed to be modified. I Eventually want to make a public list for reskinners to use of creators with all or most of there stuff being uploadable.

So far I have

davesnow (you!)
msgsapper (I think)
bendorsey
majekear

I just wish there maybe was a sorting option on the DLS/CM that would be "licenses" so we don't have to ask creators if we have permission to reskin.

davesnow said:

Why are there some people out there who create assets, routes, etc. for the game, then deny others the right to use the creations? They want to "keep it for themselves." For heavens sake WHY??! What are they afraid of? Or are they just stubborn and stingy? Makes no sense to me. It's just a computer game. Sure, maybe they did take months and months (years?) to make something, but so what? So what if they release something and someone else changes it around. SO WHAT? I don't understand. We're supposed to be "The Trainz Community." I made thousands of assets but never once did I deny the right for the trainz community the right to play with anything I created. It was all free. And I didn't give a rats ass if someone changed something or reskinned something. It didn't hurt me or foul up my game playing. But there are a few trainzers out there who'd rather never give anything to the community. "It's MINE! It's MINE and you can't have it!!" Sheesh, some people.

Dave

Click to expand...

Excellent post to start '22 with, feel free to improve my trackwork for a start...

People have their reasons. Some people simply prefer to keep their own assets to themselves, and that's fine. Maybe they just don't like it when people mess around with their assets. As an up and coming content creator, I can't say for sure what my position would be, but I know that some people just like to keep their assets to themselves so that nobody messes around with them.

I believe one of the biggest reasons is that many people reskin or kit-bash locomotives/ rolling sock/ etc. I've seen many iterations of Tier 4 Gevos, besides yours or the unreleased JR ones that people have simply kit bashed. Which they cannot release without said permission. Although many still do to their select group of friends. Then its hush hush, but that's not just this game.

Another Reason simply is that there is a rise of Illegal MSTS conversions of Rolling stock/Locomotives. Its common to keep yourself out of the trouble by saying its "Private." I know for sure there are CN C40-8M's and a BNSF ET44AH. But they also may say in MSTS as long as its not shared or released its not an issue. Just depends on the Modder.


Other than those two reasons, it could simply be they are not ready to release it because its not up to their standards yet, or maybe it will never be. I think the reason the JR models that we have seen a gazillion pictures of namely the ET44's or the AC4400CW or the AC44C6M's is be cause they don't have cabs completed. That's what I heard.

Ultimately I know the community as a whole really loves and appreciates when a creator(such as yourself) are very open to reskins/modifications with the possibility of release. But its up to every creator.

An added issue is the presence of Mobile Trainz Users who port content to Mobile then go hog wild releasing it. I had almost made the decision to pull my routes from my website because someone was downloading them, making a small change, if at all, then releasing it to the DLS under their user name. Never asked me, never put my name on it.

davesnow said:

Why are there some people out there who create assets, routes, etc. for the game, then deny others the right to use the creations? They want to "keep it for themselves." For heavens sake WHY??! What are they afraid of? Or are they just stubborn and stingy? Makes no sense to me. It's just a computer game. Sure, maybe they did take months and months (years?) to make something, but so what? So what if they release something and someone else changes it around. SO WHAT? I don't understand. We're supposed to be "The Trainz Community." I made thousands of assets but never once did I deny the right for the trainz community the right to play with anything I created. It was all free. And I didn't give a rats ass if someone changed something or reskinned something. It didn't hurt me or foul up my game playing. But there are a few trainzers out there who'd rather never give anything to the community. "It's MINE! It's MINE and you can't have it!!" Sheesh, some people.

Dave

Click to expand...

Two issues one is textures need to be properly commercial licensed to be uploaded to the DLS and that can be expensive.

Second N3V change what was acceptable is now an error. Fine for your own work but there are a lot of reskins of my work on the DLS that I'm unable to correct even if it is just dropping in a new mesh. We are talking many hundreds of assets that have needed to be corrected but I had no way to do it. The reskinner has to understand enough to make the change.

Cheerio John

I'd release all my stuff, but then I think of all the payware content creators that could put out of business. Families might go hungry, college kids wouldn't have their tuition, and kids wouldn't get their lunch money. It might really upset the economy. And that would break my heart.

Most of my stuff isn't even near 2021 standards. I'm lucky if it gets to 09 standards at times. The textures are really fuzzy, especially up close. Besides, I have enough trouble getting them into 09 without finding something that I know would bother even the most forgiving of trainzers. I am getting better, but it's a slow process. So, here they sit....

Kudos to you Dave for giving the community your all!

Interesting discussion with a range of views.

I always thought that there was a license tag in the config.txt file where creators can state the conditions of use. I just checked the Wiki and the tag is still legal for optional use and I just tried it on one of my TRS 19 assets currently under development. It submitted without any errors reported by CM. So that option is still there and I will make use of it from now on. But unless you actually open and read the config.txt file you would never know it was there.

Cloning for personal use has always been an option for DLS assets and now for DLC payware as well. If a creator puts a ban on all mods, reskins, edits (even correcting their bad spelling in the config.txt file) then that is their right but who is going to stop you from modding, reskinning and correcting their assets for your personal use? Unless you are foolish enough to (accidentally I am sure) upload your cloned version to the DLS or a 3rd party web site or give it away to others then how will they ever know?

As noted in these posts some creators take a very draconian view on others altering their work in any way, as is their right. At the other extreme, I have had more than one creator tell me that he did not care how his work was altered or what was done with the finished product.

My policy on my uploaded assets has varied over the years. I have no problems with people modding, reskinning, altering, correcting my assets (at their own risk of course - I accept no liability) for their personal use. My permission is not needed. If you are going to mod my work and upload it to the DLS (that has never happened yet to my knowledge, but I live in hope) then I would like to be informed and an acknowledgement placed in the description would be nice. But I don't see myself saying no.

I would not be happy with someone using my work for personal profit or gain, beyond N3V of course who have used one of my routes, a session, and a few of my other assets in various DLC packages. In each case they sought my permission first and I refused any payments.

My thoughts.

the only thing i have a problem with is people going "dont reskin my content without permission", a growing trend in some spaces, which implies that if you even reskin the asset on your own computer and never send it to anyone (or even screenshot it), you've broken the author's EULA, and that's just stupid for a game like this. there's being protective of your assets, and there's being paranoid and overprotective.

if you release content to the public, you have to accept that people WILL reskin and modify it if they see fit. god knows i have. those who attempt to hold such a stranglehold on their assets after release are simply trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist, or at least, isn't nearly as bad as they believe it is. the main reason, afaik, a certain site shut down was because people were reskinning their assets with derogatory graffiti, which is unfortunately just something you have to accept if you're going to release to the public. is it frustrating seeing people do with your content as they please? somtimes, yeah. is it inevitable that people will do what they please regardless? definitely.

hell if you never screenshot it even mention the existence of an asset you've modified, the original creator ofc would have no way of knowing you made such edits. i wonder if people that get truly upset over this lie awake at night wondering how they can stop people from doing this. they will never succeed.

you want to modify an asset for personal use? go right ahead, it's free and the cops can't stop you. releasing an asset, whether for free or for a price, is a whole nother can of worms and absolutely depends on the creator's EULA. but no one can stop you from modifying any asset you want so long as it's not re-released without permission.

(only exception to all of these guidelines is N3V, since whenever you upload an asset to the DLS, you essentially forfeit all rights to N3V to include it in DLC or re-release it in any way. that's great! upload your content to a 3rd party site, instead.)

chris2001trainz2010 said:

(only exception to all of these guidelines is N3V, since whenever you upload an asset to the DLS, you essentially forfeit all rights to N3V to include it in DLC or re-release it in any way. that's great! upload your content to a 3rd party site, instead.)

Click to expand...

Some creators only ever use 3rd party web sites because they do not accept N3V's terms of use for the DLS. Again, that is their right but I do wonder if those creators are happy to use assets from the DLS that others have uploaded for the benefit of all users or do they exclusively use 3rd party assets in all their routes and sessions? My policy, and I know of others here that do the same, is not to use 3rd party assets in any of my creations to avoid the frustrating and often fruitless search for "missing assets" that anyone who downloads my works would have to endure. If I download a route or a session that contains missing assets my usual first response is the Delete missing assets option in Surveyor, or to delete the entire route/session. 3rd party web sites have a habit of vanishing from the web, either permanently or for long periods.

You can add me to your list.

Two words in the OP's post


USE the creations, that means place it in a route/session and play
CHANGE the creations, the original asset gets modified


Only 1/5 of what I created ever hits the general public, why?
cause I am never really done with something and constant learn and improve


Had an 11 year break from trainz starting 2007
on my return, I found a few of my items reskinned and giving many errors
No one had bothered to ask permission.
Had to "repair" many of those "reskins", learn people how to repair


Stingy no, but if people change stuff and you get the negative response after
that's not really fun.


No one in USA is gonna tell me how I release and what permissions I put
No one in Kangerooistan, is gonna tell me what buildnumber I will put
or when and how I will release and where I host/offer stuff.
No one will make money of stuff I make period.


Love to share, love to help and love Trainz
I pity the ones restricting themselves to a company run DLS
you miss out on the best stuff

Honestly, I think the biggest reason stuff doesn't get released is that it either isn't done, or the creator doesn't think it's done enough. So many people are ridiculous perfectionists when it comes to making anything, content included (especially), and even if others consider it done and beyond perfect, it may not be in their eyes.

Cheers
Jamie

an example of that Jamie
I made an alternative Maglev08 and the passenger station at the german test facility in 2005
it has the full interior, subtle tilting, passenger views etc.
Never released cause I did not want to embarras Auran or the DLS creator at that time.

Add me to the list of those who don't mind in the slightest of anyone modifies anything of mine. If you think of it, you might leave me in the config file as the creator, but it isn't important. What is important is that people have fun and use my items.

Bill

I think anyone following the "Screenshots - Show us your reskins" thread recently can see why some people don't release assets. There has been a fairly rude poster on that thread tearing down the reskins certain people show, and then reacting with rude language to anyone that calls him on it.

Forester1 said:

I think anyone following the "Screenshots - Show us your reskins" thread recently can see why some people don't release assets. There has been a fairly rude poster on that thread tearing down the reskins certain people show, and then reacting with rude language to anyone that calls him on it.

Click to expand...

This was something I had to deal with on a daily basis back in 2014. Certain folks got into virtual fist fights over rivet counting on pixelated hopper cars. Not kidding!

delete

The most frustrating thing is when people who pull there assets after releasing them. Years down the road when trying to find them, you end up reaching dead ends where there is no where to download the content.

Yeah happens hert
Had it recently with an old route: Paris Gare du Nord - Creille
it leaned heavy on assets from La Trains en France (rip)
It took two weeks to make/find replace assets
but found that actually for anything there is a replacer out there
Visited many cool French trainz sites while searching and met nice people that helped
ofc. it helps that I can make every piece of content if I have to
because it took work, I know the route much better and enjoy it more.