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Thread: Class 11 Confirmed

  1. #1
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    Default Class 11 Confirmed

    ILIOSIN shared these photos of a new class 11 for trainz. All of his public work can be found here (https://www.artstation.com/ilios). Looks incredible.




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    Thumbs up

    The Class-11 has a well placed nice touch. The paint seems to suffer from engine heat which I would agree with if the doors are a bit lighter than the other metal surfaces of the engine. It is things like that which showcase the abilities of an artist to capture subtle realities. You might also notice ghost like faces in that area as well. I would, however, expect the interconnecting rods on the wheel to be less than perfect. Especially where they are located so close to the ground. But, perhaps they were recently replaced.
    Last edited by boleyd; December 31st, 2021 at 10:21 PM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.0ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 117092 116912.

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    Are these going to be new DLC for Trainz? If so, who commissioned them and on what basis? (ie. was there any market research as to what new models British Trainzers might actually want?) The class 11 looks very nice, but it is completely niche and has no use on the vast majority of UK routes! Meanwhile, we desperately need new models of the class 25 (workhorse of the London Midland Region) and class 20 (workhorse of the Eastern Region). Could N3V possibly commission those from gifted creators like ILIOSIN? I'd certainly pay for them!

    Paul

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    Thinking about this further. N3V are entirely within their rights to commission a shunter if they want one. But why the class 11 and not the class 08? We could certainly do with a new 08 - the freeware version for which reskin versions are available on the DLS is about 20 years old and there was a payware version that has disappeared into the mists of time. As the 08 is based on the class 11, could it not be tweaked to give us a class of 996 locos, some of which are still in use, rather than a class of 106 all of which were withdrawn by 1972?

    Paul

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    Don't forget that content is supplied by creators, either free or payware, not by N3V. Creators without commission will build what interests them, not generally what is needed or requested by users.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    Are these going to be new DLC for Trainz? If so, who commissioned them and on what basis? (ie. was there any market research as to what new models British Trainzers might actually want?) The class 11 looks very nice, but it is completely niche and has no use on the vast majority of UK routes! Meanwhile, we desperately need new models of the class 25 (workhorse of the London Midland Region) and class 20 (workhorse of the Eastern Region). Could N3V possibly commission those from gifted creators like ILIOSIN? I'd certainly pay for them!

    Paul
    They are, and ILIOSIN is already under contract from N3V to make this, the class 47, and class 43, and probably others btw (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?163890-Liskeard-amp-Llooe-Route-BR-Mk1-Coaches-Creator&p=1875523#:~:text=Again%20under%20contract %20to%20N3V) for TRS2022. It appears to be part of N3V's overhaul of the stock 10 years old assets. He says in the description, "This is one of my works for N3V Games, for Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019", so these are all made under N3V contract. Its already been confirmed that the brand new HST and Tornado are TRS2022 DLC, so I can imagine this, plus many others, are coming as well (not all of ILIOSINS work is public yet, and he said in another comment "I have been busy all these 9 months, now I will try to upload some of the work that was done during this time!"). Tony also confirmed that there would be several paint schemes (class 47, etc) of some of the locos.



    ILIOSIN, btw is the author of the HST, Class 47, and Tornado. He shared some images of those as well.



    Last edited by dundun92; January 3rd, 2022 at 09:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grazlash View Post
    Don't forget that content is supplied by creators, either free or payware, not by N3V. Creators without commission will build what interests them, not generally what is needed or requested by users.
    According to dundun92, this stuff has been commissioned by N3V and ILIOSIN is working under contract. So I repeat - what market research was done to underpin the commissioning of these models and what assessment was made of need and demand from the UK Trainz community for these models?

    Quote Originally Posted by dundun92 View Post
    They are, and ILIOSIN is already under contract from N3V to make this, the class 47, and class 43, and probably others btw (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?163890-Liskeard-amp-Llooe-Route-BR-Mk1-Coaches-Creator&p=1875523#:~:text=Again%20under%20contract %20to%20N3V) for TRS2022. It appears to be part of N3V's overhaul of the stock 10 years old assets. He says in the description, "This is one of my works for N3V Games, for Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019", so these are all made under N3V contract. Its already been confirmed that the brand new HST and Tornado are TRS2022 DLC, so I can imagine this, plus many others, are coming as well (not all of ILIOSINS work is public yet, and he said in another comment "I have been busy all these 9 months, now I will try to upload some of the work that was done during this time!"). Tony also confirmed that there would be several paint schemes (class 47, etc) of some of the locos.
    Thanks for the response. There's no question these are beautifully executed models, but, in this form, they have very little application in UK Trainz routes:
    • Class 11 - all withdrawn by 1972;
    • WCR maroon class 47 - only of use on heritage railtours in the 21st Century;
    • Tornado - a one-off loco only of use with heritage railtours post 2008.

    But, with a little bit of tweaking, there could be something of wider, and more commercial, interest:
    • Class 08 shunter - in green, blue, sector and privatisation liveries - the most numerous class of BR diesel in use from the 1950s to today;
    • Class 47 - same liveries as above - the ubiquitous standard class mixed traffic diesel in the UK from the '60s to the '00s;
    • Peppercorn Class A1 Pacifics - the post-war race-horses of the East Coast Mainline.

    And I could also throw-in those Mk1 carriages (that nobody has seen) - a much needed addition to any UK route, in a variety of liveries.

    The issue here is not the model building (which is excellent), it's N3V's business model (opaque, Byzantine and not very commerical!) For example, why is this stuff being bundled with TRS22 and not made available as stand alone DLC? That does not maximise revenue! (ie. people will pay for the platform and then pay again for rolling stock DLC). If this was another SIM, content of this quality would be offered in a variety of DLC packs - 'class 47, 1960s'; 'class 47 - 1970s'; 'class 47 - 1980s' etc. 'Mk1 Carmine and Cream'; 'Mk1 Maroon'; 'Mk1 Blue and Grey'; 'Mk1 sectors'; 'Mk1 privatisation' etc. That's the way to maximise profits and keep the company going (and god knows, I say this as a life-long socialist!)

    Come on N3V, you've got a very special model builder here in ILIOSIN, why not reach out to the UK Trainz community about the DLC we'd actually like to buy? (and I say that knowing that my colleagues on https://forum.british-trainz.co.uk/ may take a very different view about desired DLC than myself!)

    Paul
    Last edited by Paulsw2; January 5th, 2022 at 06:22 PM.

  8. #8

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    The Mk1's are available with the TRS22 Beta Paul. A great deal of effort has gone into modelling them, with many accurately observed small details - which only makes it even more frustrating that the windows are out of shape......

    Again they currently only come in WCRC branded maroon, so of very limited use, and only a BSK, TSO and FO at the moment so without catering vehicles you can't even make an accurate railtour consist (never mind a Mk 2 brake to put on each end!).

    The 47 is very well modelled though, and the cab is beautiful. The engine sound is the existing one, which IMHO lacks enough thrash under load. The hornsound is build 1.3 and doesn't sound like any 47 I've ever heard - more like a DMU I suspect.

  9. #9
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    Actually, we are getting new MK1 coaches, not just the red WCR ones, but also others: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...23#post1875523
    Tony also did say that there would be several liveries of the class 47, and presumably others: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...04#post1821104
    And as I said earlier, the Tornado and HST are both payware DLC. They are not bundled with TRS2022 as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    According to dundun92, this stuff has been commissioned by N3V and ILIOSIN is working under contract. So I repeat - what market research was done to underpin the commissioning of these models and what assessment was made of need and demand from the UK Trainz community for these models?
    ILIOSIN said on all three models that this was being made for N3V, and Rob also mentioned that his work on the MK1's was made under N3V contract as well: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...33#post1875133, And the Tornado on content manager is authored by both "auran" and "iliosin". And ILIOSIN is Russian, so I really don't see why he would be interested in putting hundreds of hours of work on foreign locomotives. These most certainly are all under contract, and I cant wait to see what else he is making (As he shared the class 11 a little over a month ago).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    There are only 14 that have ever been in this livery, they've only been running since 2003 and they only run on charter trains
    >>
    Exactly. This is being custom built by us for a 3rd party route and session we're helping out with.

    Now of course I apologise immediately if N3V's intentions for their 'New Generation Content' encompass this locomotive in diverse liveries (in which case I do hope you'll remove the headlight from the front nose so that those of us who model the 1960s and 70s can run them.)
    >>
    Yes, there are plans for other liveries (and possibly additional options for reskinning).

    N3V's earlier, and similarly
    niche, decision to offer us a payware class 14 loco.
    >>
    We offer primarily what we 3rd party content creators provide. In this case, the creator offered it to us, so we made it available.

    What consultation have you done with UK trainzers about what models they would like to buy?
    >>
    It's more a case of "what do 3rd party content creators want to create"? The reason there is a lot more USA content is because JR, HP Trinz and others make the content and sell it non-exclusively through our store.
    The UK creators are thin on the ground. We are aware of rumour3 working on a 47.
    Meanwhile, if there are any talented content makers out there who are willing to create - very much needed - new models of either class 20, 24, 25, 31 or 47 please contact me because (did I mention this?) I AM WILLING TO PAY!
    >>
    And we're willing to sell it!

    Some decent coaches to go with it would be handy too...
    >>
    Yep, agreed.

    By the way, a loco and cab runs into many thousands of dollars to create (well over 100 man hours)




    Last edited by dundun92; January 5th, 2022 at 06:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2995Valliant View Post
    The Mk1's are available with the TRS22 Beta Paul. A great deal of effort has gone into modelling them, with many accurately observed small details - which only makes it even more frustrating that the windows are out of shape......

    Again they currently only come in WCRC branded maroon, so of very limited use, and only a BSK, TSO and FO at the moment so without catering vehicles you can't even make an accurate railtour consist (never mind a Mk 2 brake to put on each end!).

    The 47 is very well modelled though, and the cab is beautiful. The engine sound is the existing one, which IMHO lacks enough thrash under load. The hornsound is build 1.3 and doesn't sound like any 47 I've ever heard - more like a DMU I suspect.
    Thanks Anthony. I hadn't picked-up on the issue of the Mk1 windows, but now you mention it, and having looked more closely, you're quite right - they're far too square! Had N3V actually worked with the UK Trainz community - and possibly offered some beta testing - this could have been picked-up while the models were under development. It's extremely frustrating!

    Quote Originally Posted by dundun92 View Post
    ...
    ILIOSIN said on all three models that this was being made for N3V, and Rob also mentioned that his work on the MK1's was made under N3V contract as well: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...33#post1875133, And the Tornado on content manager is authored by both "auran" and "iliosin". And ILIOSIN is Russian, so I really don't see why he would be interested in putting hundreds of hours of work on foreign locomotives. These most certainly are all under contract, and I cant wait to see what else he is making (As he shared the class 11 a little over a month ago).
    With respect, I think you're missing my point: my question is, if he's working under contract, why aren't N3V contracting him to create models that are actually needed and in demand for UK Trainz routes, rather than niche models that have no wide application? However, I do agree with you: I can't wait to see what else he is making - perhaps it'll be stuff we actually want to buy?

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    With respect, I think you're missing my point: my question is, if he's working under contract, why aren't N3V contracting him to create models that are actually needed and in demand for UK Trainz routes, rather than niche models that have no wide application?
    That, I don't know unfortunately. All Tony said in response to your complaint about niche assets (which I quoted in the last post), was that they were being custom built for N3V. As for contracted creators, Tony didn't directly answer that question.
    Last edited by dundun92; January 9th, 2022 at 08:32 PM.

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    I’ve not seen the new Mark 1s up close yet, but is it possible they have been modelled using the original construction drawings which had square window corners? This detail led to the early-build coaches rusting out in double-quick time, leading to the window corners being changed to the rounded type on later builds, which all the surviving examples have.
    Making slow progress on a number of prototypical UK routes


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    Quote Originally Posted by stovepipe View Post
    I’ve not seen the new Mark 1s up close yet, but is it possible they have been modelled using the original construction drawings which had square window corners? This detail led to the early-build coaches rusting out in double-quick time, leading to the window corners being changed to the rounded type on later builds, which all the surviving examples have.
    Rounded Window corners. They have West Coast Railways logo on them.

    I'm guessing here that the contracted stuff is possibly for sessions for new routes, rather than any wish list!
    Malc


  14. #14

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    Yep, they've modelled the separate frame either by eye, or more likely from an inaccurate drawing.

    TRS 22 version:


    Real thing:

  15. #15

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    Agree a Class 08 or 09 (latter 25 MPH) would have been more useable.
    We really need some reworked classic DMU's, too. The recent freeware 108 fills a bit of a gap but needs a nice cab and interior.
    I would pay (yes I'd actually buy Trainz content) for a decent Class 120 Swindon Cross Country or something like a Class 104. Or a nice Hampshire Thumper, Class 205.
    TRS22 Standalone - Please Add Surveyor 2.0

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