Surveyor 2.0 feedback thread

GaryReggae said:

The main thing I miss most from Surveyor Classic that is not in S20 is the in-game filters - Ctrl + Shift + F

Click to expand...

That is there in S20, just not as a separate popup dialogue window.



In the Assets Panel - you can select from the Filter drop down box:-

• Filter List (filter the items listed)
• Filter Selection (to be able to only select, on the screen, those items that are in your filtered list), and
• Filter Visibility (to only show, on the screen, those items that are in your filtered list).

Below that is a row of common object types which you can click to select, for example, only track splines or scenery objects or track objects, etc

Below that is another drop down box in which you can select, CM search filter style, from a wide range of objects, picklists, etc

Below that is a text box where you can type in a partial (or complete) search name.


In the example shown I have selected one of my Picklists (Peterborough Track Objects) then typed "VR" so only those assets in the picklist that have "vr" in their names will be selected.


If I had set the Filter to Filter Visibility then only those assets in my final list would be visible on the screen, everything else would be hidden. If I had set it to Filter Selection then I would only be able to click on (and select) the items in my filter list.

That's great thanks, I will give it a try later.

Kind regards,

Gary

dragonsoul said:

HOW do I make this selection? I do not see a tool that allows me to Copy.

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Try this for just one possible example.

1. Set the filter to Filter Selection from the 1st drop down list as described in my post above.
2. Click the button Scenery Objects (the 2nd button from the left - it resembles a tree) OR select Scenery Objects from the 2nd drop down list
3. In the Tools Panel/Palette select the Free Move Tool (2nd row, 1st column) and click while holding down the shift key each object you want in your Scrapbook OR use the Marquee Tool (2nd row, 3rd column) to draw out a rectangle over those same objects.
4. Press Ctrl+C. If you have not already done so make sure that the Scrapbook Panel/Palette is visible on the screen (I usually have mine turned off) - from the Windows menu (Trainz Windows not MS Windows - it is in the 2nd Menu Icon from the right at the top of the Trainz screen) tick the Scrapbook Palette.

Some irritations:

1. If the spline dot is underground then it is very difficult to alter the Z axis using the Fine Adjust tool. The Z axis is overlayed with the yellow spline indicator. The only way to adjust the Z axis then is to key in a figure. (apologies pware for mentioning this again).

2. Sub-Menus are indicated by the > symbol. That's fine, but the sub-menu disappears if the mouse is moved off it. (This is true in some other applications as well).
Fix:- Instead of hovering over the > symbol to open the sub-menu have a click event instead to open the sub-menu pinned until closed.

John

In putting together a "How To" guide for using the S20 tools I have come across one puzzle.

If you open the Context menu for a spline object there is an option labelled "Merge Splines". Now this, I thought, would have an very obvious meaning but so far all my attempts to use it have failed.

For example: I have placed two separate identical splines within contact of each other (using the shift key to prevent them manually merging) and, after selecting both splines and opening the context menu, the "Merge Splines" option is still greyed out. In fact all attempts that involve selecting two or more separate splines have failed to "wake up" this option in the menu list.

Has anyone had any success in this? If so I would love to learn "the secret".

Peter ("Puzzled")

If the spline dot is underground then it is very difficult to alter the Z axis using the Fine Adjust tool.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I've added that to the list of required fixes.

Sub-Menus are indicated by the > symbol. That's fine, but the sub-menu disappears if the mouse is moved off it.

Click to expand...

That's intentional. You get to see the sub-menu while holding the mouse over it, but it hides when you move the mouse off it. This saves an extra click.

If you open the Context menu for a spline object there is an option labelled "Merge Splines".

Click to expand...

It's in the docs under "Laying Tracks" - https://docs.trainzsimulator.com/docs/laying-track

It sounds like you're trying to get two non-joined tracks to join rather than merging two connected tracks into one.

Perhaps we could add a Join tracks, but the current process is simply to drag one onto the other.

Tony_Hilliam said:

It sounds like you're trying to get two non-joined tracks to join rather than merging two connected tracks into one.

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Ahhh yes. That is it - mystery solved. Thanks. It has the same effect as selecting the spline point and hitting the Delete key.

Tony_Hilliam said:

Perhaps we could add a Join tracks

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How about "Merge Segments"?

Tony_Hilliam said:

That's intentional. You get to see the sub-menu while holding the mouse over it, but it hides when you move the mouse off it. This saves an extra click.

Click to expand...

Yes I know that Tony but it's still irritating. I'd prefer the extra click if I had a choice. Just a choice of interface design.

John

I have just noticed a problem with S20 for some assets.

I added some portals to a blank layout to test them with the S20 tools and I noticed a problem with some of them
<kuid2:30501:22006:5> Portal Basic
<kuid2:96914:22000:3> Portal Basic Short

When placed with the Placement Tool they can be immediately deleted. But use the Free Move Tool of the Fine Adjustment Tool to move them (nothing fancy, just an XY movement) and they can no longer be deleted. While selected (highlighted in green and yellow - the sporting colours of my country, good choice N3V) and they will not delete. The keyboard delete key or the Context Menu Delete option would not budge them!

Curiously, another portal <kuid:-25:1264> Portal does not have this problem - it can still be deleted no matter how much you move it. The only difference I could see that the two recalcitrant portals are actually made of several spline sections joined together. But selecting the entire spline of both portals still failed to delete them.

Bug report with test map submitted.

Testing S2 in the Alpha test release

Map options moved partly to the main top menu, but every option you tick it immediately closes
sometimes I just want to do 2 or 3, not open it again for each tick


The minimap works in S2, but is a complete different style, its not dockable, has the wide browser style
3 options remain in the too large/long text "Map Display Options" why not just "Options" ?
You already know you are in the Minimap


Tested working tweaks I did :
-the left docking bar invisible (when all menus are floating)
-Right dockingbar the full height
-Slightly reduced the Tools menu


The new automatic generated icons are nice

G.M. said:

Map options moved partly to the main top menu, but every option you tick it immediately closes
sometimes I just want to do 2 or 3, not open it again for each tick

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Supports what I was saying earlier about sub-menus. We're on the same page G.M. when it comes to interface design. I doubt it will change much though.

pware said:

I added some portals to a blank layout to test them with the S20 tools and I noticed a problem with some of them
<kuid2:30501:22006:5> Portal Basic
<kuid2:96914:22000:3> Portal Basic Short

When placed with the Placement Tool they can be immediately deleted. But use the Free Move Tool of the Fine Adjustment Tool to move them (nothing fancy, just an XY movement) and they can no longer be deleted. While selected (highlighted in green and yellow - the sporting colours of my country, good choice N3V) and they will not delete. The keyboard delete key or the Context Menu Delete option would not budge them!

Click to expand...

I have received feedback from N3V QA,

Thanks for the report. We've reproduced the issue and raised a task regarding the behaviour.

The issue is that selecting the item using those tools only selects the track. The workaround is to use the Marquee select tool and then you can delete the portal. (It is still a bug that we need to address either with the content or code).

Click to expand...

A new Wiki Page on how to use the Surveyor 2.0 tools is now "up and running". It will probably still need some tweeks, fixes, updates and there is still one menu option that I have not been able to work out what it does, but the page is now fully useable.

The page is at https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_S20_Tools

Hello pware,

For all that work, I just want to say thank you very much.

Regards,
Paul

Thank you Paul for the feedback.

Thanks pware. I've gone halfway through your excellent wiki guide and made the following notes (to do with as you please). I didn't spot which tool you weren't sure about - let me know and I'll help out.

I've also added a link from the S20 Docs page to your wiki page.

Notes:
- Possibly add an introduction section to explain that S20 is about. e.g. "S20 uses a different process to Classic. The S20 process requires selecting one or more items (which can be a mix of different asset types), then applying some action to the selected items. Classic requires selecting a tool from a specific asset tool palette then applying that to each item individually."
- Add section how to access S20 (and switch to Classic when required)
- Brush radius size is unlimited but performance will decrease as the radius increases
- Ground textures - you can change the default ground texture by changing the Region used for the route (plus link to how to change the texture in a region)
- a very large brush and a very small scale value) can cause problems CNR with my test. >> Please check it wasn't just taking a long time to do the operation and provide full repro steps so we can investigate.
- Effect layers are created per route. You can edit an effect layer and select a previously saved Effect Layer Asset rather than having to recreate the entire effect each time.
- The spline segment will now have three Context Icons, one for each endpoint and one for the spline segment. >> TIP: Different options are provided depending on which icon you click on.
- An existing height that is already in the Tool Options Palette>> TIP: You can also apply height clicking in the Height field in Tool Options and hitting the Enter key.
- The Eyedropper Tool identifies objects in a route>> TIP: Hold the Alt key and mouseover any item to see the name of the asset. Alt + L-click to select the mouseover item in the Asset Palette.
- Narrowing the Search section>> the filters also apply to selection tools as well as the eyedropper tool. (e.g. "Only the remaining visible Scenery Splines can be selected by the selection tools")
- TIP: If you see a notification message "The selection has been filtered out" then recheck your filter options to allow selection of more items.

I'll try and find some more time during the week to continue with the rest of the article. Great job!

Thank you for that Tony. I will go through your list and update the doc.

The only item that I was unable to work out was the Copy menu option from the Info Palette that is opened by the small down arrowhead next to the selected asset name. This option is not mentioned in your Surveyor20 document and my experiments with it did not produce any light.