Welcome to TRS22 from the CEO
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
I agree!
The cost per unit is quite high for physical models and is made worse by "limited edition" pricing. What's even worse is a visitor who takes it upon himself to touch the $1400 locomotive and knock it on to the floor. Back in 2003 shortly before I got TRS2004 for $29.99 at CompUSA, one of my nephews knocked an Atlas/Kayto N-scale Alco-RS3 on to the floor. At the time, that locomotive cost me $100 and I nearly had a heart attack. Watching my nephews knock something like that Dash-9 on to the floor would probably put me in the grave.
Steve Lerro once said this, or something to this effect once on an episode of At the Roundhouse. There is nothing that can compare to the physical feeling and sensation of holding your model in your hands, and that is 100% true.
My Westside model company J3a Super Hudson was hand built almost 50 years ago in Japan. It is painted and lightly weathered to represent the prototype. I have REA and express cars for it. It looks great running on the club layout. But all in all, it took me 2 years from purchasing the model to having in my hand. The reason for this was that I had so much done to it (electronics, DCC, sound, lighting, paint, weathering), and the total cost of the model all said and done was north of $700. More with cars, probably dropped $2-300 on those over the years.
I was able to assemble a similar model almost for free in Trainz (I used elements of 1 or two very inexpensive K&L payware locomotives in my effort) I reskinned and bashed everything, and I am still working on it. It was like working on one of my HO models, but virtually. The cars I needed were available for free from Trainz Forge.
I currently paying for a Silver Subscription for Trainz. I believe this to be a good value, because of the immense amount of content provided. I had no idea that the offerings had expanded this much, and I am genuinely impressed. For Christ's sake, they've got Tidewater 2.0 in the vault, and Coal Country! That is pretty cool and I'm looking forward to operating on those and the classic Mojave Sub from TS12. Not to mention to expansive library of locomotives and rolling stock, including a pair of beautiful New York Central steam locomotives.
I love model railroading, but the hobby is so incredibly expensive that I sold nearly all my stock and only own 3 locomotives now, because less is more and keeping dozens of high dollar locos around that won't get to running is wasteful.
I know people aren't happy with the subscription model, and I'm not either. But there are 2 things to remember. #1-Trainz is such an amazing alternative to the traditional model railroading experience, and as others have pointed out it is so exponentially cheaper. #2-We give the folks at N3V a lot of grief--but they've really fulfilled the original vision of providing this alternative for model railroaders all over the world. That's what this program was intended for 20 years ago.
My Westside model company J3a Super Hudson was hand built almost 50 years ago in Japan. It is painted and lightly weathered to represent the prototype. I have REA and express cars for it. It looks great running on the club layout. But all in all, it took me 2 years from purchasing the model to having in my hand. The reason for this was that I had so much done to it (electronics, DCC, sound, lighting, paint, weathering), and the total cost of the model all said and done was north of $700. More with cars, probably dropped $2-300 on those over the years.
I was able to assemble a similar model almost for free in Trainz (I used elements of 1 or two very inexpensive K&L payware locomotives in my effort) I reskinned and bashed everything, and I am still working on it. It was like working on one of my HO models, but virtually. The cars I needed were available for free from Trainz Forge.
I currently paying for a Silver Subscription for Trainz. I believe this to be a good value, because of the immense amount of content provided. I had no idea that the offerings had expanded this much, and I am genuinely impressed. For Christ's sake, they've got Tidewater 2.0 in the vault, and Coal Country! That is pretty cool and I'm looking forward to operating on those and the classic Mojave Sub from TS12. Not to mention to expansive library of locomotives and rolling stock, including a pair of beautiful New York Central steam locomotives.
I love model railroading, but the hobby is so incredibly expensive that I sold nearly all my stock and only own 3 locomotives now, because less is more and keeping dozens of high dollar locos around that won't get to running is wasteful.
I know people aren't happy with the subscription model, and I'm not either. But there are 2 things to remember. #1-Trainz is such an amazing alternative to the traditional model railroading experience, and as others have pointed out it is so exponentially cheaper. #2-We give the folks at N3V a lot of grief--but they've really fulfilled the original vision of providing this alternative for model railroaders all over the world. That's what this program was intended for 20 years ago.
capdiamont
Active member
I’m another large scale modeler. Lots of cost, for just the track alone. Takes a lot of space. Keep the track clean for electric power, battery or steam. Those herb plants are fun to run through but that and the cats and deer are not very realistic for scenery. Then have to deal with the overgrown plants. Gravel gets stuck the switch points. I’ve done automation, which the weather tends to destroy.
Working to move an old garden railway.
sorry but Trainz is pretty cheap and it is nice to sit down at a computer to just play with trains. Much easier to move with.
Working to move an old garden railway.
sorry but Trainz is pretty cheap and it is nice to sit down at a computer to just play with trains. Much easier to move with.
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A little less enthusiastic about my subscription purchase once I realized that N3V DLC creators apparently do not know how to center the...
Railroad name on the tender? Really? There are 12 year old reskinners who steal and trade payware content for sport that can do better then this. Tony, you need to answer for why this was okay'd. And for why after a year, Tidewater 2.0 is still not fixed. Why would I trust your company to sell me my next Trainz release when you can't even center the Railroad name on a locomotive's tender? You guys literally made the game, but can't learn photoshop? Really disappointed as I was the most hopeful for these 3 items.
Good thing I can edit all the payware assets to be more to my liking... oh wait.
Fix it Tony. It's not acceptable for $10 a month.
$40 route has literal broken track, and has for awhile as there are records of folks complaining about it a year ago, and again in March of this year. Tidewater Point 2.0
$15 locomotive with misaligned text on the tender. Gwapo50/Fallen Flag NYC H10a Mikado
Auran-Created $15 locomotive, with misaligned textures on the tender.
Railroad name on the tender? Really? There are 12 year old reskinners who steal and trade payware content for sport that can do better then this. Tony, you need to answer for why this was okay'd. And for why after a year, Tidewater 2.0 is still not fixed. Why would I trust your company to sell me my next Trainz release when you can't even center the Railroad name on a locomotive's tender? You guys literally made the game, but can't learn photoshop? Really disappointed as I was the most hopeful for these 3 items.
Good thing I can edit all the payware assets to be more to my liking... oh wait.
Fix it Tony. It's not acceptable for $10 a month.
$40 route has literal broken track, and has for awhile as there are records of folks complaining about it a year ago, and again in March of this year. Tidewater Point 2.0
$15 locomotive with misaligned text on the tender. Gwapo50/Fallen Flag NYC H10a Mikado
Auran-Created $15 locomotive, with misaligned textures on the tender.
Which again goes back to my main point - Trainz+ may be worth it if you are actually going to use all that content. Its not worth it at all for a content creator like me, when all you are looking for is S20, better performance and new features. Not new routes and locomotives. I don't understand why they would put such a major feature in subscription, as I hardly play trainz every day. I though the point of subscription was for accessing the entire vault of routes and locomotives for much cheaper, not necessarily new features. Other then increased performance, I see no useful difference between TRS19 and TRS22 standalone, which again raises the question, what am I actually paying $70 for?
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Looking new features behind a subscription model is going to be the death of this franchise. Content is fine as long as it's not literally useless for people with even the slightest attention to detail, and to be fair much of the content in the silver subscription is just fine, but that does not excuse these 3 items which we all know are never going to be fixed.
The above illustrate my main point - the value of a product, service and (in this case) a subscription will vary between users. If you don't see the value then don't get it. If a subscription for Trainz Plus or an outright purchase of TRS22 is not for you then the good news is that no-one is forced to do either - you can stay with TRS19 Standard or PE, or purchase TRS22. But thank you both for sharing your reasoned views, opinions backed up by evidence are always welcome.
My personal assessment is quite different. I use Trainz every day but I don't use or want all of the new route offerings. But I am more than happy with the subscription. Each to their own.
Putting new features behind subscriptions or paywalls, such in the purchased only versions of "freeware", is quite common - some of my installed apps do this. I pay the licence fee for those apps where I find the additional features useful or necessary, where I don't find them useful I don't make the payment and only use the freeware version.
N3Vs stated policy is to place the new features (e.g. S20) in the subscription version first then later add them to the standalone purchased version. I can see the logic and financial sense in that. If you want the new features then you are encouraged (not forced) to get the subscription. Otherwise simply wait for a future release where they will be included - its a simple choice.
My opinions (but others welcome).
I think you make a great point pware. Honestly, I have no issues with the subscription as long as stuff doesn't become permanently locked behind this subscription paywall, but from what you are saying it doesn't sound like that will be the case with Surveyor 2.0, which is great. As for Trs22, it doesn't seem like there's much of a reason to buy it if it doesn't have Surveyor 2.0 and offers essentially nothing over '19 save for performance(?).
I know it's common place among software companies to lock extra features behind a paywall (subscription or otherwise), but I don't think it's a particularly consumer-friendly practice.
I know it's common place among software companies to lock extra features behind a paywall (subscription or otherwise), but I don't think it's a particularly consumer-friendly practice.
If you are comparing trainz with real railway modelling for value, trainz has to win hands down, the hobby always was very expensive and looking at reviews online it's even more pricey now and in many cases a $ 300 loco often has issues with looks and performance . If you don't want to subscribe trainz is fantastic value , granted you need a powerful computer to run it,but very few people will use their computer just to run games, it has a myriad of other uses. Complaining about faults on some assets does not negate the overall value to the assets that are available to you to use. I gave up railway modelling due to cost, lack of space and above all, the sheer restrictions that are inherent to the hobby, you can't model any railroad effectively , just tiny portions , which is ultimately unsatisfactory to me. In fact I just cannot work out why so many people want to make model railway layouts complete with room fittings , in a sim that allows you to make huge routes that can get close to realism, it's just beyond my comprehension , but I guess we all have our little peccadillos 
This sums up my point very well.
My main concern is when Tony said it may not even make it into TRS22 standalone period but may be pushed to a "future trainz product" (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...22-from-the-CEO#:~:text=future Trainz product). If they proceed with that and just abandon TRS22 standalone users, then I think that would be, IMO, a bit unreasonable. If not, then I am more then willing to wait for it to come to standalone, however long it may be.
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lackoo11111
Member
So is it still worth to subscribe to the annual Gold membership ? Will i receive and keep TS22 if i cancel the subscription in next year ? Will the old built in conent of previous trainz available on the DLS ?
I believe the offer to get TRS22 with an annual subscription expired a couple of months ago. At this point if you want TRS22 then you would need to purchase it. Note, that it was only available on an annual subscription, not a month to month subscription plan. N3V does not refund money if you cancel your subscription. It is simply allowed to expire at the end of the period your subscribed for.
It's true--there are still many excellent (and working) assets for use with silver subcription. That does NOT excuse N3V being lazy.
The issues with Tidewater 2.0 have been ongoing for at least 1 year, look in the Trs19 threads and you'll see. You cannot edit the route or track. There are people who paid $40 for a broken route. It would be as simple as rearranging one very short section of track (see screenshot in previous post). But one year later, nothing. And Tony is nowhere to be found in this discussion.
The models by DLC creators I know are not worth complaining about, but I'm gonna do it anyways because the centering of the railroad name is probably the easiest thing you can do in making a model, and like I said 12 year old reskinners can do it.
By the way, there is a good looking version of the H10a. The one without PBR textures and that obscene white corona (Taken from Fallen Flag RR Facebook).
Wish they'd at least give us a choice, or let us have both because this one look 100x better.
This is my pic of the Big Emma and H10a in Trs19. Headlight on.
lackoo11111
Member
I'm sorry to hear that .
Congrats to Trainz and the team on 20 years!.
With all due respect to the team, I don't do subscriptions. ->Not ever<-.
My own business is based on 3d modelling and it gives me the greatest pleasure to rent 3d Studio Max for one month only,
make ALL the models I made a list of, then delete every single trace of Autodesk products from my heavily customised
thermo-nuclear PC.
I always wanted to buy the full version of 3d studio Max NO MATTER THE COST. I used to dream about owning it.
Now I totally hate it's guts because Autodesk & Adobe were the first to go subscription. (not a chance in hell).
I will wait until surveyor 2 is offered as part of a stand alone, non subscription package THEN get whatever version it is then.
By then I should have a 2nd PC specifically dedicated to gaming, with a huge wall size screen and THEN go bananas on Trainz.
I might even end up with a monitor for a tombstone - running Trainz.:hehe:
Also, 2 things are missing here, a completely brain numbing Tycoon/money making module for Trainz, for total escapism
and..... forum Drool Mops in relation to latest releases.
No drool mops slobbering in the forums? Proves my "subscriptions are yuk" theory - lol.
Ps: I don't play any other Trainsy game apart from Transport Fever 2 <3, such is my respect for & history with: Trainz.
With all due respect to the team, I don't do subscriptions. ->Not ever<-.
My own business is based on 3d modelling and it gives me the greatest pleasure to rent 3d Studio Max for one month only,
make ALL the models I made a list of, then delete every single trace of Autodesk products from my heavily customised
thermo-nuclear PC.
I always wanted to buy the full version of 3d studio Max NO MATTER THE COST. I used to dream about owning it.
Now I totally hate it's guts because Autodesk & Adobe were the first to go subscription. (not a chance in hell).
I will wait until surveyor 2 is offered as part of a stand alone, non subscription package THEN get whatever version it is then.
By then I should have a 2nd PC specifically dedicated to gaming, with a huge wall size screen and THEN go bananas on Trainz.
I might even end up with a monitor for a tombstone - running Trainz.
:hehe:Also, 2 things are missing here, a completely brain numbing Tycoon/money making module for Trainz, for total escapism
and..... forum Drool Mops in relation to latest releases.
No drool mops slobbering in the forums? Proves my "subscriptions are yuk" theory - lol.
Ps: I don't play any other Trainsy game apart from Transport Fever 2 <3, such is my respect for & history with: Trainz.
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Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
You could also rent Trainz Plus for a month and delete it.
Drool mops are so year 2000.
Our subscriptions are continually growing in popularity and the ongoing, more predictable revenues have enabled us to add 3 new team members this year. This will benefit everyone as we will be able to work more efficiently and continue to make Trainz better and better.
It's really up to your guys to determine how much you want to support your favourite hobby financially. If 18 cents a day is too much, then we're happy if you continue to buy each new edition as it comes out.
Well, Peghorse, each of us is at least free with Trainz to make up our own minds according to our needs, experiences and financial means. You can purchase Trainz outright and keep it forever or buy a monthly or annual subscription for as long as you need. The choice is yours.
Like it or not, subscription software has started to become the "norm" for many products and I expect that it will continue to grow. Industry reports I have recently read indicate that Office 365 has been an enormous "fund raiser" for Micro$oft, so the demand is clearly there.
As a comparison consider that the purchase of software on a physical disk (or disc) is now as rare as hen's teeth, much to the annoyance of many. None of the last 5 computers I have purchased came with any sort of "spinning media" device. I did buy an external USB Bluray/DVD device about 4 years ago but I used it only once or twice. It now gathers dust in a storage cupboard.
I was also a subscription denier. Would not have anything to do with paying in advance for promises of future deliveries. I preferred to make an upfront full cash payment to get the product in hand. But looking at my current stock of subscriptions:
As I have discovered, it is all about weighing up what is offered.
My thoughts.
Like it or not, subscription software has started to become the "norm" for many products and I expect that it will continue to grow. Industry reports I have recently read indicate that Office 365 has been an enormous "fund raiser" for Micro$oft, so the demand is clearly there.
As a comparison consider that the purchase of software on a physical disk (or disc) is now as rare as hen's teeth, much to the annoyance of many. None of the last 5 computers I have purchased came with any sort of "spinning media" device. I did buy an external USB Bluray/DVD device about 4 years ago but I used it only once or twice. It now gathers dust in a storage cupboard.
I was also a subscription denier. Would not have anything to do with paying in advance for promises of future deliveries. I preferred to make an upfront full cash payment to get the product in hand. But looking at my current stock of subscriptions:
- New Scientist Weekly magazine. Delivered digitally to my email with access to all past digital editions. No more piles of magazines taking up space and sucking in dust.
- Anti Virus program (for multiple devices including mobiles). No more manual updates plus a host of other features not found in the free version
- Disk management and cleanup system (for multiple computers). Ditto
- Trainz Plus Gold. With new features and regular updates plus access to a host of DLC
As I have discovered, it is all about weighing up what is offered.
My thoughts.
Well, that's great news, but I just hope the non-subscribers don't get neglected to the point where Trainz Plus is light years ahead of the latest available standalone version. I think trainz plus is great for those who want access to the entire content vault, and test new beta features (like S20) - as long as the developed Trainz Plus features make their way to the the standalone version, and don't get locked behind a subscription well after the feature has been fully developed.
lovetrainzloathen3v
New member
Doesn't matter if you buy outright or pay subscriptions. None of us actually own the software, that we install.
We lease it and N3V, Microsoft, DTG or whoever. Can withdraw access anytime they wish.
I am not a huge lover of subscriptions, i only have two. Trainz Gold Plus and ExpressVPN.
So in reply to, i hope Trainz Plus features do not leave the non subscribers behind.
I do actually expect to have something extra for putting my hand in my wallet.
You make your choice, you get what you do or don't pay for.
We lease it and N3V, Microsoft, DTG or whoever. Can withdraw access anytime they wish.
I am not a huge lover of subscriptions, i only have two. Trainz Gold Plus and ExpressVPN.
So in reply to, i hope Trainz Plus features do not leave the non subscribers behind.
I do actually expect to have something extra for putting my hand in my wallet.
You make your choice, you get what you do or don't pay for.
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