From my experience with N3V software downloads is that once purchased (by any method) the software installer is always available for you to download again. Each time I have replaced my computer with a newer model I have used the MyTrainz --> My Digital Download link to download my purchased Trainz install onto my new computer.
Welcome to TRS22 from the CEO
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
From my experience with N3V software downloads is that once purchased (by any method) the software installer is always available for you to download again. Each time I have replaced my computer with a newer model I have used the MyTrainz --> My Digital Download link to download my purchased Trainz install onto my new computer.
Each of us is entitled to make our own product purchasing decisions according to our individual means and needs. Certainly not everyone can afford the annual subscription but, from various sources, it seems that enough of us now have the subscription to indicate that it was a good marketing decision by N3V. Tony recently stated that, as a result of the uptake of subscriptions, they have been able to employ additional programmers and that is something that will benefit all of us, subscribers and non-subscribers alike.
TRS22 will not appeal to all existing TRS19 owners as a "must have" upgrade but it will be the entry point for customers that are new to the Trainz product line and that is very important for the future of the product. I also suspect that many existing customers who currently have only T:ANE or older versions will find it an attractive upgrade.
Your timeline clearly indicates that you have not been buying every Trainz version anyway (and neither have I) so you are not stating anything new.
My thoughts.
I'd agree, 20c a day is definitely good marketing and I'm sure plenty of people will go down that route (as they already have), and I'm sure it will benefit N3V greatly. My bigger issue is the high price ($70) for a standalone game that has a few niche features, nothing huge or out of the ordinary, and the fact that Trainz+ was originally supposed to a content vault - not VIP access to new features.
What trainz plus has become into is exactly what people feared when Tony announced it back in 2018 (His "open letter" to the community with the one star rating) - even though he said he "could not understand why people were getting upset at the idea", and assured us this wouldn't affect standalone users and that this was just premium access to new content and extra features - S20 is hardly an extra feature, its a must have for content creators and a welcome upgrade from the aging surveyor classic, and they've locked it behind a subscription (They wont even let TRS22 standalone beta users test it either). What I'm asking N3V to do with trainz plus is not to remove it, but keep it on topic, and stop pulling new functionality (like s20) into it to attract more people. That's not what trainz plus (or at least, my understanding of it) was originally meant to be. I feel N3V and Trainz+ can still be successful if it retains its original purpose of allowing people to access routes and content at a much more affordable price.
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Gold and Silver subs have the content vault, plus has new features and nothing has changed in that regard. S20 is a new feature under development and therefore part of plus. I can just imagine the uproar if a "half baked S20" was included in TRS22. Also be thankful that you don't live somewhere with a lousy exchange rate on USD. It's north of $100 over here.
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
Nothing has changed since the original announcement. Trainz Plus gets things before the retail release - new features and new content. This concept has been clearly stated since the beginning and "access to new features before everyone else" is the main attraction for Trainz Plus. Gold and Silver get the DLC access as well.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the merits of our business plan.
It most certainly is an extra feature. It's just a big one - exactly the sort of thing Trainz Plus is all about. Phase 1 provides a host of new tools. Phase 2 will polish the tools and add the missing functionality (such as still having to use Classic for Bulk Replace).
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the merits of our business plan.
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Just to respond to Tony H's feedback:
| From Tony H |
| Well, it's really only 17.8 cents a day (if paid annually). So no marketing there, just a mathematical fact. Let's say you play once a week for an hour, that's $1.20 for an hour's entertainment and enjoyment. If you find that's too much to pay, then that's a shame. |
| response |
| Tony H's 17.8 cents a day is actually 1.25 for 7 days not his 1.20, using Tony H's rounding to 1 decimal place, just a mathematical fact. |
| Also, Trainz plus at $69.49USD divided by 365 days is 19.04 cents per day in my spreadsheet, Tony H, where did the 17.8 cents per day come from? Mathematical fact? |
| My understanding of advertising prices for marketing is to put out the lowest price possible, i.e. Tony H's 17.8cents per day, 69$US annual pricing not the $300AUD for 3 years you need to pay for the product to use it for it's life span. So, I think there is marketing here. |
| Re. Tony H's 'lets say you play once a week for an hour, that's $1.20 for an hour's entertainment and enjoyment', did you means once a day for an hour for a week, that gets closer to $1.20? Also, I can't buy 7 hours of TRS for 7 hours for a $1.20 so it's not real. Tony H's preference is $300AUD to use the product for its lifecycle |
| Re Tony H's 'If you find that's too much to pay (i.e. $1.20 for an hour or 7 hours), then that's a shame. I'm not ashamed to question why TRS has gone from $100AUD to $300AUD, BTW full Foxtel is $20c AUD an hour (at 8 hours per day usage) |
| from Tony H |
| No, you get a complete set of features and new content just as you did with TRS19 |
| response |
| The purchased version does not include Surveyor 2.0, a significant missing functionality |
| from Tony H |
| It's only fair that those people supporting us with their ongoing custom get more benefits than those that don't. |
| response |
| When I purchase a product I support it, by definition, Tony H is saying 'ongoing custom' i.e. membership/subscription is better that purchasers, now we know |
| from Tony H |
| we'd be able to double our staff, increase the pace of development, and lower the price |
| response |
| Of course you'd be able to do that if you tripled the price, my question is, do you need to triple the price for TRS to survive/go forward? |
| Some questions of interest: |
| How many TRS subscribers are there? |
| How is N3V going as a company? Can we see the annual report? How much of income is put back into the game? |
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I wont be subscribing any time soon, but I can understand the motivation behind subscriptions, if NV3 had to rely on people like me ( about the only thing I buyfrom them is yearly FCTs and the game itself every three or four years , they would have gone bust years ago. I don't think many people really appreciate just how expensive it is to develop computer simulator software and given that even the largest train sims don't sell copies in the millions , I'm surprised that NV3 is still around . Microsoft axed an entire team of 5000+ staff who were working on their second MSTS version and their flight simulator back in the mid 2000s, id bet NV3 would be lucky to employ 20 staff , not 5000, sims like these are hardly a guaranteed goldmine, they ain't in the world of warcraft , or GTA league, they do need regular income streams and subscriptions, like them or not, do provide that and allow reprobates like me who purchase virtually nothing to continue using the app
Muzza, you can always take the cheap way out by waiting for TRS22 to go platinum with the extra features and wait for it to go on sale!!
I have a gold sub and I'm very happy with it and that will set me back over $250 a year at the current exchange rates, approximately.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
I have a gold sub and I'm very happy with it and that will set me back over $250 a year at the current exchange rates, approximately.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Muzza, you must be a lot of fun at parties.
I really don't know what the point of your financial arguments are about, squabbling over rounding differences and a few cents here or there.
Your $300 (I am assuming that is $AU) is for the subscription over 3 years. No-one is being forced to pay $AU300 when you can buy the standalone TRS22 product (non-subscription) for $US69.99 or $AU96.68 at today's ever changing exchange rate. And the annual subscription for Trainz Plus is $US69.49 ($AU96.38) which comes to $AU290.04 not $AU300 for those of us who are interested in arguing over rounding errors or a few cents here and there.
Correct, the TRS22 stand-alone product does not include S20, something that Tony and N3V have never hidden. S20 is, and always has been, a subscription only feature that may, in some future form, be added to a stand-alone version.
Of course membership/subscription should be rewarded. The Licensed Clubs that I belong to offer their members deals and special benefits that customers who "walk in" off the street do not get. My Telco offers special deals to those clients who also join their "Silver Membership" group. QANTAS has a Frequent Flyers Club with benefits to its members. What is wrong with that?
I am amused by your questions.
These would be "commercial in confidence" and not for public consumption unless the CEO (which I presume is Tony) decides to reveal that information.
You clearly do not understand Australian Company law. N3V is not a listed company (i.e. is not listed on the stock exchange) and therefore, as a private company, is not required to produce annual company reports for the non-existent shareholders.
I really don't know what the point of your financial arguments are about, squabbling over rounding differences and a few cents here or there.
Your $300 (I am assuming that is $AU) is for the subscription over 3 years. No-one is being forced to pay $AU300 when you can buy the standalone TRS22 product (non-subscription) for $US69.99 or $AU96.68 at today's ever changing exchange rate. And the annual subscription for Trainz Plus is $US69.49 ($AU96.38) which comes to $AU290.04 not $AU300 for those of us who are interested in arguing over rounding errors or a few cents here and there.
Correct, the TRS22 stand-alone product does not include S20, something that Tony and N3V have never hidden. S20 is, and always has been, a subscription only feature that may, in some future form, be added to a stand-alone version.
Of course membership/subscription should be rewarded. The Licensed Clubs that I belong to offer their members deals and special benefits that customers who "walk in" off the street do not get. My Telco offers special deals to those clients who also join their "Silver Membership" group. QANTAS has a Frequent Flyers Club with benefits to its members. What is wrong with that?
I am amused by your questions.
These would be "commercial in confidence" and not for public consumption unless the CEO (which I presume is Tony) decides to reveal that information.
You clearly do not understand Australian Company law. N3V is not a listed company (i.e. is not listed on the stock exchange) and therefore, as a private company, is not required to produce annual company reports for the non-existent shareholders.
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
What we have learned from this thread is there's considerable interest in S20, but it's not worth 20 cents a day for some people. My golf club membership was $12.75 a day (now cancelled since it was working out to several hundred $ per game - and that's before equipment and post round drinks were factored in).
Muzza - It looks like I've put 64.49 into my calculator not 69.49. But I'll make a deal - I'll arrange a discount for you should you take up the cheaper price.
In terms of amount invested versus returned, I'd say we'd be getting close to break even by now over 20 years (after being millions behind for the first 10 years). So we might begin to show a positive ROI soon.
Muzza - It looks like I've put 64.49 into my calculator not 69.49. But I'll make a deal - I'll arrange a discount for you should you take up the cheaper price.
In terms of amount invested versus returned, I'd say we'd be getting close to break even by now over 20 years (after being millions behind for the first 10 years). So we might begin to show a positive ROI soon.
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amigacooke
Well-known member
Of course if it’s a leap year, Trainz+ is just that tiny bit cheaper.
N3V is still providing the purchase option for Trainz, so I’m happy to wait for S2 to go off subscription exclusivity. I applaud those who subscribe.
Tony, you’re still lauding TRS19 in your strap line, shouldn’t you swap to TRS22?
N3V is still providing the purchase option for Trainz, so I’m happy to wait for S2 to go off subscription exclusivity. I applaud those who subscribe.
Tony, you’re still lauding TRS19 in your strap line, shouldn’t you swap to TRS22?
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yes, very few companies would work for that long when they are barely breaking even, I criticise the product a great deal, but after watching a video of the history of trainz, I've realised that we owe a great debt to you Tony, it appears that without you, this sim would not exist. As usual I'll purchase a copy of 2022 (with no subscription ), even though i cant actually run it at the moment as I've not got enough space on my laptop to install 2019 and 2022 and I don't want to build routes in it until I know its not got lots of bugs.What we have learned from this thread is there's considerable interest in S20, but it's not worth 20 cents a day for some people. My golf club membership was $12.75 a day (now cancelled since it was working out to several hundred $ per game - and that's before equipment and post round drinks were factored in).
Muzza - It looks like I've put 64.49 into my calculator not 69.49. But I'll make a deal - I'll arrange a discount for you should you take up the cheaper price.
In terms of amount invested versus returned, I'd say we'd be getting close to break even by now over 20 years (after being millions behind for the first 10 years). So we might begin to show a positive ROI soon.
Johnda1237
New member
Well, this is a fine. mess.
Hi Tony, I got a downloader program, but it still hangs. Got a message that the program is a windows program and not compatible with Mac. WT... Got another message that the file may be corrupted. I am throwing my hands up.
Hi Tony, I got a downloader program, but it still hangs. Got a message that the program is a windows program and not compatible with Mac. WT... Got another message that the file may be corrupted. I am throwing my hands up.
Try here for a Mac download program https://mac.eltima.com/list-best-download-managers-mac.html, quite a lot of them.
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
Johnda - sounds like you are trying to download the Windows version and not scrolling down the page to the Mac version.
dangavel - if it's the history video I'm thinking of it is amusingly accurate and inaccurate in various parts.
Luckily we're learning from our mistakes and making a better product each year, so each product outsells the previous one, and that is helping the bottom line.
dangavel - if it's the history video I'm thinking of it is amusingly accurate and inaccurate in various parts.
Luckily we're learning from our mistakes and making a better product each year, so each product outsells the previous one, and that is helping the bottom line.
davies_mike57
Train Simulator Hobbyist
Congrats Trainz team certainly a great product to purchase.
Just mentioning that the Beta testers have played a very important part in this games progress over the past 20 years.
Planning to purchase the Steam version of the game after a computer upgrade, SSD drive etc.
Just mentioning that the Beta testers have played a very important part in this games progress over the past 20 years.
Planning to purchase the Steam version of the game after a computer upgrade, SSD drive etc.
Link please?
I will say based on Wikipedia, we do indeed owe a great deal to Tony's involvement.
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