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Thread: TRS19 vs TRS22 more separated

  1. #1
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    Default TRS19 vs TRS22 more separated

    TRS19 vs TRS22 more separated


    I understand developing Trainz is an ongoing process that will never end
    but for users it might be more clear, what is in which version
    and make a distinct new set of features (buy/sell argument) for TRS22


    TRS19 SP5 the final version build 4.9
    -All bugs reported in the SP4 thread fixed
    -no CM icons (so it loads fast)
    -no New water (is not ready yet)
    -no parts of Surveyor 2 hidden in the code (will never be in TRS19)


    TRS22 the anniversary edition build 5.0
    -Content Manager with icons when fixed
    -New water, if developed full and bug free, also keep old water
    -Surveyor 2 with option to use Surveyor 1 in all versions
    -also the 1x buy (no subscription) set price to be equal to a year silver subscription


    feel free to comment

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.M. View Post
    TRS19 SP5 the final version build 4.9
    SP5 is 5.0. See here: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...TRS19-SP5-Beta

  3. #3
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    it only needed the 5.0 because the new water if that is removed its 4.9
    btw am i the only one seriously testing SP5?

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    I appreciate your beta testing skills. It would be great if more people helped identify bugs during the beta phase so we can fix things prior to the official release.

    Regarding water, you haven’t mentioned the bugs you think make it not ready, but once you know how it works, it works fine. (With room for improvement for sure). It just works differently to the old water. If you don’t create a new water effect it isn’t really enabled, so removing it would prevent those who want to use it from doing so.

    In short, just ensure the water is below ground level. Using the set height tool does this easily enough.

    On the marketing and business decisions, please wait until Wednesday December 1 for full details of TRS22 and Trainz Plus features and options.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

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    Tony, I would have to have beta tested TRS19, but why should beta testers have to pay? to do so. This is probably why u dont have as many people identifying bugs. tony u should should think about the above sentence. andrew
    Last edited by poolboy; November 26th, 2021 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #6
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    I agree with poolboy. I was a beta tester until frozen out by subscription. It was quite insulting after all the work I had put in over many years. Trainz is still a good product, yet will need all the help it can get to prosper in the future.

    ingha

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    Oct 17th
    Quote Originally Posted by poolboy View Post
    My Question here is WHY do we have pay to beta test when we have already paid for product.
    Nov 27th
    Quote Originally Posted by poolboy View Post
    Tony, I would have to have beta tested TRS19, but why should beta testers have to pay? to do so. This is probably why u dont have as many people identifying bugs. tony u should should think about the above sentence. andrew
    Your point was answered after your initial post. If you already own the product YOU DON'T PAY to have the beta of the next release (usually an SP) installed so YOU DON'T PAY TO BE A BETA TESTER. But what I suspect you are really asking is why don't N3V hand out FREE copies of TRS22 to anyone and everyone who asks on the promise that they will beta test it for them. That would not be a wise move.

    In the case of testing SPs you really need to have the previous SP release (or the original) to be able to compare and test from experience. If you want to test TRS22 then get, through a subscription payment, Trainz Plus. But I have no doubt that there will be SPs released for TRS22 so, after you have purchased your copy of TRS22, you will have an opportunity to test it WITHOUT PAYING for the beta.
    Trainz Plus 114800, Win 10, 16GB, RTX 3060Ti
    Trainz Plus 115628, Win 10, 8GB, GTX 1050Ti

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    Poolboy and Ingha if you don't have a subscription atm.
    you can help me beta test TRS19SP5, see the Beta forum
    the SP5 beta is available for non subscription users with a PC (not Mac yet)
    So far tested its a big improvement over SP2 SP3 SP4
    Best to do this in a separate version of the game.
    help is welcome

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    Option A. No one other than internal testers. We release the game. 500,000 additional assets are tested. Millions of new asset combinations are tested. Release is a disaster, sales are poor, Trainz ends development. No new releases ever.

    Option B. Lots of people test early in the cycle. Early betas have lots of bugs fixes, more people come on board for later testing and more bugs are found and fixed, release is smooth, sales successful, then future versions have more features added more quickly, more bugs fixed more quickly, and everyone is happy.

    Option C: in between these.

    It’s your call really. All we hear is how buggy things are. We fix 100 bugs, miss 5, and apparently it’s a buggy mess! It’s really easy to provide all the easy answers, to claim we ignore our users, but little consideration is given to why we’d want to ignore our users, or provide our motivation for doing so.

    I tend to have an outburst like this nearing every new release as the other part of all the feedback is how demotivating it is for the team. We are all human, and have families and we care about our job and our product. We know you’re passionate about it too, but please just take a moment to read this post again and consider if you have a role to play in making Trainz better.

    Thanks for listening and thanks to all those testers who helped us find all sorts of bugs.
    Last edited by Tony_Hilliam; November 27th, 2021 at 07:29 AM.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

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    Much respect to you and the team Tony
    you really need a thick skin to take all that, understand the outburst


    A suggestion for Option C, could be, make use of the user developer group (old name i remember was brewcrew?)
    we have a section here on forum, but it is totally dead atm. and I cannot post there
    You already know a few people that you know will see a bug and can express themself enough so the team can repair
    maybe sometimes ask these few to pre test stuff, for a little reward (a coupon)
    Also (learned from Runescape) have every n3v member at least read and post on forum 1x a week
    in the end it leads to better understanding.


    As said before, Trainz is the best, because of your patience and experience,
    and the loyal group of content creators.
    Lets all pull together, make SP5 the best TRS19, then make TRS22 even better
    if I need to help anywhere just say so
    greetings GM

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by G.M. View Post
    Much respect to you and the team Tony
    you really need a thick skin to take all that, understand the outburst


    A suggestion for Option C, could be, make use of the user developer group (old name i remember was brewcrew?)
    we have a section here on forum, but it is totally dead atm. and I cannot post there
    You already know a few people that you know will see a bug and can express themself enough so the team can repair
    maybe sometimes ask these few to pre test stuff, for a little reward (a coupon)
    Also (learned from Runescape) have every n3v member at least read and post on forum 1x a week
    in the end it leads to better understanding.


    As said before, Trainz is the best, because of your patience and experience,
    and the loyal group of content creators.
    Lets all pull together, make SP5 the best TRS19, then make TRS22 even better
    if I need to help anywhere just say so
    greetings GM
    I agree with G.M. on all counts.
    Keep up good work and thank you for great product. Getting better and better like a good vine.

    Kind regards
    Darko

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    Option A. No one other than internal testers. We release the game. 500,000 additional assets are tested. Millions of new asset combinations are tested. Release is a disaster, sales are poor, Trainz ends development. No new releases ever.

    Option B. Lots of people test early in the cycle. Early betas have lots of bugs fixes, more people come on board for later testing and more bugs are found and fixed, release is smooth, sales successful, then future versions have more features added more quickly, more bugs fixed more quickly, and everyone is happy.

    Option C: in between these.

    It’s your call really. All we hear is how buggy things are. We fix 100 bugs, miss 5, and apparently it’s a buggy mess! It’s really easy to provide all the easy answers, to claim we ignore our users, but little consideration is given to why we’d want to ignore our users, or provide our motivation for doing so.

    I tend to have an outburst like this nearing every new release as the other part of all the feedback is how demotivating it is for the team. We are all human, and have families and we care about our job and our product. We know you’re passionate about it too, but please just take a moment to read this post again and consider if you have a role to play in making Trainz better.

    Thanks for listening and thanks to all those testers who helped us find all sorts of bugs.
    Thank you Tony and the Team for all of your hard work.

    I absolutely, love Trainz and I've just started beta testing the new S20 which by what I've seen so far, is looking great.

    What people forget is, that this is software and all software is not perfect. You can not replace the real world with software, meaning, software will never be able to do everything in real life, let alone perfectly. There are even some popular YouTubers who bag the game all of the time yet they are making money off it - I don't understand that!!

    Again, software will never be perfect but enjoy what is good. Look at Microsoft Flight Simulator for example, they have done a great job with this simulator, it's the best looking flight simulator ever but is it perfect? No! Even though Microsoft is a multi-million dollar company with almost unlimited resources. I don't know what Tony and his teams finance and resources are but I can pretty much guarantee they are nothing compared to Microsoft.

    Enjoy what we've got and try and help by helping Tony develop Trainz more and more.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Craig

  13. #13
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    As I've said before if Trainz ran on a games console or similar it likely would be near perfect as would Microsoft Flight Simulator but they don't. We the members, run Trainz on the widest range of hardware using half a dozen OS, many of which are at different build states. Then to this we introduce endless payware, freeware and so forth most of which is out of the control of N3V and wonder why on occasions we get so called 'bug' and/or the proposed fixes don't exactly resolve the problem as planned.

    Unlike software, assuming something physical is fit for purpose and has been used within design parameters and received any scheduled maintenance when it breaks, goes faulty, repair it with like for like and it will function quite happily again. Software isn't like that, when it breaks, we find a 'bug', replace like for like and we still have the 'bug' its still broken and to resolve the break, fix the 'bug', its necessary to redesign the software. Redesign anything, physical or software, and you are in the realms of reliability testing to ensure that the redesign resolves the issue and as important doesn't have a negative knock on effect to any other aspects of the design. I spent 16 years of my career doing just that as a Reliability and Maintainability engineer and honestly software can be a nightmare particularly when you have little control over the hardware and OS.

    I agree with Tony, the team are in between a rock and a hard place trying to resolve issues while satisfying us member. Microsoft has been using us all for years testing their products at least N3V are open about it, and they do tend to ask first. I think the good news will be that even those who have quite negative views at this time will purchase TRS22 come the day. Perhaps in the mean time we could all be a little more constructive and get behind the team in their endeavours to make TRS22 (and any bugs) the best Trainz so far. Peter

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    Thank you G.M. (post 8). I did not know about the Beta forum or the available beta patch for SP5, now downloaded.

    ingha

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    Quote Originally Posted by poolboy View Post
    Tony, I would have to have beta tested TRS19, but why should beta testers have to pay? to do so. This is probably why u dont have as many people identifying bugs. tony u should should think about the above sentence. andrew
    Poolboy and Ingha, I missed these posts earlier.

    I’m not sure why you think you need to pay to become a beta tester. TRS19 has been through external beta testing at various stages over the past four (plus) years without any cost to TRS19 owners. All you need to do to be a beta tester if you own the product is to update using the beta patch stream.

    Trainz Plus testing is done on a different stream and there are different features. Much/most of the underlying code is the same so bugs found in one version generally fix the same issue in another version.

    We have made the business decision to offer memberships/subscriptions just like many other businesses. The main priority of a business is to make a profit. Profits are then reinvested to make a better product. Better products leads to more customers, then expanding the team leads to more rapid development. It’s a cycle that works, and is working.

    There is no compulsion to join, but hopefully you’ll see the benefits in joining one day along with many others.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

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