Packaged the new Built-In ???

[Christopher824]

I am posting this in the TCCP forum section, if you are not a TCCP content creator, this may not apply to you.

When developing content, routes, locos, ect. and submitting them to the TCCP, the content must be 'available' or it must be your own. Prior to SP4, CM showed many assets as 'built-in' with prior version available on the DLS. Since then, these 'built-in' assets have now become 'Packaged'. If the current 'Packaged' version is not on the DLS, it now becomes unuseable for the TCCP crew.

There is also a 'Packaged, Payware' status, which if that is the only place the asset appears, it's payware, no worries.

So for the TCCP build machine, I think that 'Packaged' status should be treated as 'built-in' in prior versions. It would help moving forward with the new 'Packaged' workflow.

If examples are needed I have a few.

Thanks in advance to anyone that has input or solutions.

[hiawathamr]

The 'Packaged' is the new way of saying its built-in. This just shows that these items (mostly to DLS items) are part of a DLC pack.
Items that now come with the core verison of TRS19 (before all of the DLC's are downloaded) will show the traditional built-in to tell you its part of the actual game core set.

My guess with this new system is to prepare for the new surveyor 2.0 that's supposed to become available soon.

Cheers

[gramma]

Wow! I Never Seen That Before! This is New Way!

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All
With the latest updates to the DLC system, we now have the ability for creators to specify which assets are to be payware encoded (which are shown as 'packaged, payware' in content manager).

For any non payware assets, they will use the new 'packaged' status, which indicates to you that they are part of a DLC pack, but aren't payware encrypted.

In regards to submitting a DLC pack, we do not provide any support for uploading content that is packaged in a DLC pack. This means that you must have a 'source' version of all dependencies, except where they are in the core Trainz installation, installed to upload the DLC pack. For this reason, it is strongly recommended that you use a new/clean LocalData to upload DLC packs so that you can ensure that all included content is only installed in it's source form (and to help check the source of the assets you are including).

Regards

[G.M.]

Hi Zec, is there now any prevention from freeware (DLS) items suddenly becoming payware (since Sp4)?
let the DLC uploader decide may not be handy. An uploader should only decide about his/her own items.
Had problems with neoklai freeware items, suddenly become payware, cause they are used in Sebinolake

[ZecMurphy]

Hi G.M.
The new system should report errors to creators if a DLS asset is listed in the 'assets to be payware encrypted' list. It will also normally cause an error when a DLS asset is listed as a feature asset as well IIRC.

The idea is that 'payware' assets are only available through the payware DLC pack, and cannot be edited (ie are encrypted). Usiing my Healesville route as an example, the payware assets were the route/sessions, and some of the traincar assets. The feature assets were the route/sessions, but no other assets.

Any other assets in a DLC pack will then be marked as 'packaged', functionally the equivalent of the old 'builtin', but hopefully a little clearer on what the status is (so that 'builtin' can be used for actually builtin assets ).

Regards

[G.M.]

I see it has your(n3v) attention and TY for fixing
1 more off the list for SP4HF1 :-)

[Christopher824]

...
Any other assets in a DLC pack will then be marked as 'packaged', functionally the equivalent of the old 'builtin', but hopefully a little clearer on what the status is (so that 'builtin' can be used for actually builtin assets ).

Regards

I get the whole package thing, this will be great if and when it's all sorted out, and it's only a small set of assets for me, but still does not explain this for example;

<kuid:60238:38058> Wire Gates <-- on DLS, original
<kuid:60238:38212> Wire Gates <-- on DLS, obsoletes previous
<kuid2:60238:38212:1> Wire Gates <-- Packaged, obsoletes previous, was marked built-in SP3, now unusable for TCCP projects

So these Route Packages use this asset on my system;

Packaged <kuid2:515942:100004:1> 1930s Cornish Mainline and Branches - Truro to Penzance
Packaged, Payware <kuid2:515942:100169:21> Cornish Mainline and Branches - TRS19
Packaged, Payware <kuid2:154322:100063:19> ECML EDINBURGH - DUNDEE
Packaged, Payware <kuid2:154322:101483:23> ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh

Now that it's packaged and current version is not available on DLS or in a core route, can't be used for TCCP project any longer (as of SP4). I have contacted vulcan and am trying to have him update it, I sent him a build 3.5 version that could be put on the DLS, he does not quite get the problem though, as he may not use the TCCP, but could be fixed that way, which I believe is unnessacary, his licence states this asset is freware, and was on DLS. It's almost like N3V scooped up this asset and threw away the key. I notice some of the assets I made are marked Packaged on my system, no big deal because the current or newer version is available on the DLS, so it does not effect the TCCP build machine.

The fix would be that if an assets is packaged, but there is a prevous version on the DLS, it should pass. I don't think vulcan's licence allow for the current way, it was free, and should still be free for anyone with a copy of any version of Trainz. Same with Maddy25's assets which are also effected the same way.

[G.M.]

Think the whole Packaged and packaged, payware is causing more problems than it solves


I assume including content in a DLC pack, was done to increase download speed for the DLC buyer
but, most people that buy DLC also have FCT from DLS already.
so there is no real need to include anything in a DLC except,
the route/sessions and specific content only used in that route made by the route builder


Used content in the route that is on the DLS, should not be included and specially not altered
no .texture, no package tag, no alteration whatsoever.


Then, some users(like me) prefer to only install content that they actually use
to keep the PC clean, I limit the content here to the absolute minimum.


In surveyor where you select items to place in your route, the lists should be clear color coded FI:
-red, is faulty
-white, is on DLS
-light grey, not on DLS
-gold/yellow, is payware or in a DLC pack
-light green , already used in this route


This helps route/sessions builders to prevent using items, that will give trouble later.


good luck fixing it.

[Christopher824]

...

In surveyor where you select items to place in your route, the lists should be clear color coded FI:
-red, is faulty
-white, is on DLS
-light grey, not on DLS
-gold/yellow, is payware or in a DLC pack
-light green , already used in this route

...

Maybe Surveyor 2.0 can do this, hopefully. This would be a welcomed update, would save hours of development time. Here would be my logic;

-red, is faulty
-green, Base, Built-In or current version on DLS
-gold, current version Packaged or Packaged Payware, no DLS version
-white, current version Packaged, previous version on DLS

I'm not sure the 'already used in route' would work, if you accidently put a gold asset in your route by mistake it will turn a different color. So, from my chart, I would be using green and white, avoiding gold. With white making me look to see if it's freeware and if it can be cloned by the license (of the DSL version).

Thanks for following this G.M., your help is much apreciated.

BTW, I am in no way convinced that Packaged is now the new Built-In, someone did not think this all the way through.

added: my way of thinking does nothing for the people that like to delete assets to make thier installation smaller. It is only from a development standpoint.

Chris

[G.M.]

One very annoying aspect of myself is constant thinking behind the scenes
always take one step back first when deciding something, no way to turn it off :-)
its part of Lateral thinking.


The reason for an item to change color when already used in the route (whether green or not)
is that it is very efficient, reusing an item, means no extra load time and less download time.


Currently ofc. we can use picklist to reach that efficiency
-use from a preselection of a few type of trees not every board another
-use only few ground textures for the entire route, only step outside the set if it really needed


the classification as I see it:
base -essential content in all versions and made by Auran/n3v
built-in -content from a 3rd party, sold as part of the product (creator should receive royalties)
packaged -content in a DLC =payware (never including freeware (DLS) items)
DLS - freeware content from the download station
3rd party -content from external source (not on DLS) (could be free or payware)
modified - modified by the user (no matter what the source)
obsolete -there is a newer version (user should not be forced to use the newer)


I hope less handy choices in the past will not make the game only usable for the ones that study it
Trainz should be fun for all of us, KISS and user-friendly.

[Christopher824]

So looking further into this, I'm starting to wonder if the CRG assets are the one's that are not passing. I tried an asset that the only version I had was 'Packaged' and it passed, and an asset that was with previous versions on the DLS, and they passed. So what is the common here, looks like assets that were repaired and then included in 'Packaged'. Even if these have previous versions on the DLS, they fail (did the CRG use some secret mesh library, not available to us?). The ones failing are missing some files in the asset. The ones I can restore, have the files needed in the original DLS versions.

It's just plausable, so I have to look into every avenue of plausability.

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All
In regards to assets not being listed on the DLS. If the asset was detected as faulty in recent (ie the last 2-3 years from memory) error checking passes on the DLS, they will not show as 'available for download' in Content Manager; however will normally still be able to be downloaded by Content Manager. These assets are added to the CRG's repair list, and the creator is notified of the assets being marked as faulty.

Either the creator or the CRG, or in some cases N3V, will upload an update to the assets to the DLC to resolve the errors. Until an update is uploaded and released, the asset will generally be show as 'unknown'.

In regards to including all assets in a DLC pack, this is a requirement for releasing DLC packs through some avenues, and is an expectation from the majority of our customers (in part to follow the KISS principal for the end user, they click install on a DLC pack and it installs the entire DLC pack). We do not have any plans to not include all required dependencies in a DLC pack, however we have made improvements to the handling of this as I have outlined previously.

As noted previously, there are now steps in place to help prevent DLS content being packaged as payware, so despite it being said to be a problem above, this is actively being prevented in new DLC packs.

The current statuses that you will see in Trainz are:

base- these are assets that are in the core Trainz installation, as part of the core assets for Trainz itself to run
built-in- these are assets that are builtin in Trainz itself, and either DLS or are non DLS that are not payware encrypted. Generally this isn't used for DLC packs anymore.
built-in, payware - assets that are builtin in Trainz itself, and are payware encrypted.
packaged- These are assets included in DLC packs that are not payware encrypted. This includes both DLS and non DLS assets.
packaged, payware- These are payware encrypted assets that are included in a DLC pack.
Available from DLS - Content that is available from the DLS
Installed from DLS - Content that has been installed from the DLS, and isn't in a DLC pack.
3rd party - this currently indicates an asset that was installed from the DLS, but isn't being seen as on the DLS (likely due to it being in the CRG's repair list)
modified - this can indicate two things. 1) The asset was modified by the user (ie opened for edit, then submitted). 2) The asset was installed from a cdp file that was not downloaded from the Download Station; so generally content you have downloaded from a non DLS source.

There are other additional parts to some of these statuses such as out of date, obsolete, missing dependencies, etc that should be self explanatory.

It must be noted that most DLC packs released prior to the latest updates to TCCP (so more than about 1-2 years old) will not change unless they need to be rebuilt through TCCP. So these older DLC packs may show incorrect statuses on some assets for the time being. It's a very big undertaking to re-package a lot of these older DLC packs, and at the current time we simply don't have the resources to do this inhouse. We can certainly assist creators in getting their package setup in TCCP so they can resubmit it through the latest TCCP system, but that would be up to the creator if they wish to proceed with that.

Regards

[Forester1]

And don't forget these:
Packaged, Payware (not active) - Which you have but can't use for some reason
Packaged, Newer version available - which you have, but you can't download the new version for some reason
Packaged, Newer version available, Payware - which you have, but you can't download the new version for some reason

All together Waaay too many statuses junking up the CM now.

[ZecMurphy]

And don't forget these:
Packaged, Payware (not active) - Which you have but can't use for some reason
Packaged, Newer version available - which you have, but you can't download the new version for some reason
Packaged, Newer version available, Payware - which you have, but you can't download the new version for some reason

All together Waaay too many statuses junking up the CM now.

To confirm, these mean:

Packaged, Payware (not active) - The asset is part of a DLC pack that is not active. This may be from a DLC pack that you installed as part of a beta test, or may be due to changing membership, or some other reason. Make sure that you do own access to the DLC pack, and that you have the latest version of the DLC pack installed.

Packaged, Newer version available
Packaged, Newer version available, Payware

These both means that a newer version of the asset has been detected by Trainz. In the case of the first one, double check that the update isn't on the DLS by right clicking on the asset, then clicking list asset versions.

As with any asset (packaged isn't actually relevant here, the 'new version available' part is what is relevant), sometimes a new version of the asset may have been released through a specific package. Be it a mobile specific update, or the creator may have included the update in a different DLC pack for some reason. In either case, unless the update is listed as 'available for download' you won't be able to install it through the DLS. If there is an update for a DLC pack available, it will be available through the 'updates' page of the Content Store. If the update isn't released on the DLS, or as an update for your specific DLC pack, then generally that means the update isn't relevant to your version of Trainz.

As to too many statuses, we have added the 'packaged' status to help differentiate between payware and non payware content (and to differentiate it from actually builtin content!). A catch 22 situation, we add more statuses to help make it clearer what the status of the asset is, and we then cop it for adding more statuses...

Regards