Packaged the new Built-In ???

ZecMurphy said:

TBH


As to including DLS content in DLC packs, despite how much a couple of people complain about this, this is NOT going to change. By uploading to the DLS, the creator agrees to allow us to provide the asset as part of paid products (noting that technically the DLS is a paid product, since you need to own and register Trainz to access it, and has the paid FCT option for faster speeds).

The DLS assets are included to make it as easy as possible for end players to install the DLC packs, without needing to spend time searching for dependencies (just look at how often people have to ask where to find assets on downloads from 3rd party sites, even for payware).

Regards

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The concern, as far as I am concerned, isn't that DLC packs use DLS content. Neither am I particularly worried if they are marked as "packaged". The problem has always been that certain DLS products are up-issued (by whom is not clear) and put in a DLC package, without them being added to the DLS.

As a result if someone who has bought or used such an up-issued asset as part of standard DLS asset. Anyone who either has not bought the DLC pack, or not up-dated a DLC pack will be confronted by a missing or unknown asset report.

This to my mind is a totally unacceptable way of working.

Why are up-issued DLS assets not automatically placed on the DLS?

If the later version was not done with the explicit authority of the original author, who did modify it and why? Saying that the asset is incompatible with a version of Trainz is a dubious excuse at best. If I complained in the forum that a V1.3 asset didn't work properly with my latest TRS19 route, I would soon be told in one way or another where to get off.

If, for some reason, it is essential to modify an existing DLS item, why can it not given a completely new kuid, so that the original DLS asset can continue to be used without interference and to make it clear that the modified version is a "DLC packaged payware" item only.

Furthermore there is presumably a database containing items that are in the DLC packs. Why can this information not be made available to Content Manager, so that missing DLC assets can be identified. It should also be possible, where a DLC pack is already owned, for updated assets to be downloaded.
In many cases I have already downloaded DLC packages (routes), which come as part of the TRS19 bundle for the sole reason of getting two or three assets which have been included in a DLS item. In most cases I have never even opened these routes. The need to re-download the entire pack again because one asset has been updated is ridiculous. It is not sensible to argue that broadband download speeds make it trivial to download gigabytes of data for the sake of an asset that maybe only a megabyte or so.

Regards

Mike

As to including DLS content in DLC packs, despite how much a couple of people complain about this, this is NOT going to change.

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It would not be a problem if the free DLS items still remain free for those that do not have or want that DLC.

By uploading to the DLS, the creator agrees to allow us to provide the asset as part of paid products (noting that technically the DLS is a paid product, since you need to own and register Trainz to access it, and has the paid FCT option for faster speeds).

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This is a one sided and unfair agreement, to upload you have to click agree
Love to make stuff for Trainz and love other people to have fun with it,
but do not agree that a company makes profit with things I make and offer free.


That they are made and shared already enhances the value of the total Trainz experience, no need to milk it

As we've stated many many times, at no point has a freeware asset on the DLS been intentionally made payware or exclusive to a DLC pack. There have, in the past when we manually packaged DLC packs, been instances of DLS assets having newer revisions included in DLC packs.

It's possible that in some cases we may need to update assets internally to fix errors that our packaging system has reported. We do our best to place these updates onto the DLS, but in a few cases where they go through a few different hands they have ended up not being placed onto the DLS. As we've stated many many times, if people report this to us (via the helpdesk, so we do actually receive the report), we'll place them onto the DLS as soon as we can. I've personally uploaded many of the reported assets within 2-3 days of the report being received.

The result is, no assets are actively made non DLS by us, and the current DLC system will help to avoid this.

We have definitely not removed assets from the DLS after being included in a DLC pack, as is being insinuated by some...

There is an exception here. A creator themselves can decide to distribute updates to their own assets however they wish. If they include an update in a DLC pack themselves, that is their choice. It's one we'd recommend that they avoid, but they may have a good reason for it, whilst still wanting it to be a direct update to the previous asset. In this situation, you would need to speak to the creator about why they have chosen to only release the update in a DLC pack.

Where a creator submits a package that has an update of another creator's asset included, and it's not available on the DLS, it will alert the uploader to this on the TCCP website and will alert the creator of that asset that a package has been submitted with one of their assets, so that they can either approve it or place the asset on to the DLS. Often this is due to the update only being released via a creator's website, or similar.

As to repairing assets and placing them onto the DLS, this is done so that assets will continue to function in newer versions. A common complaint for many years were many assets that were seen as essential to many routes being shown as faulty. We provide creators an opportunity to update their faulty assets, and if not done so in the required amount of time, it is then passed to the CRG to repair. The whole point of the kuid2 revision system is to allow assets to be updated, whilst the original remains available (meaning you can still install the original if the newer one is incompatible with your version of Trainz!).

As to installing DLC packs to gain specific assets. If the asset is exclusive to that DLC pack, then yes you will need to install the entire DLC pack. If the asset is from the DLS, or another website, then simply installing it from the DLS will install the asset. Again, if you have an example of a DLS asset with an update that is not on the DLS but is in a DLC pack, please report this to our helpdesk so that we can resolve this.

In regards to updating DLC packs, updates to DLC packs are generally only released where the core assets of the DLC pack (ie the route or sessions) have been updated. As DLC packs are a single packaged file, it does require the whole package to be downloaded again. This ensures that the package is installed correctly with the latest update, and ensures that the package has the latest updates of all included assets in the package. As to how necessary the update is, well that depends on how much the creator has changed, and why they submitted the update. If you aren't seeing issues with a DLC pack, then it's up to you to decide if installing the updated DLC pack is necessary.

For installing updates for DLS assets, any updates will be indicated by the asset having 'newer version available' added to the end of the status. For builtin/packaged assets, you will currently need to right click on the asset and then click on 'list asset versions', then download the newest version. For payware assets, if the update is available for your version it will be shown in the 'content store' as an update for the included DLC pack. For assets installed from the DLS, or marked as modified, you can simply right click on the asset and then click on 'download'.

Regards

ZecMurphy said:

...
There have, in the past when we manually packaged DLC packs, been instances of DLS assets having newer revisions included in DLC packs.

It's possible that in some cases we may need to update assets internally to fix errors that our packaging system has reported. We do our best to place these updates onto the DLS, but in a few cases where they go through a few different hands they have ended up not being placed onto the DLS. As we've stated many many times, if people report this to us (via the helpdesk, so we do actually receive the report), we'll place them onto the DLS as soon as we can. I've personally uploaded many of the reported assets within 2-3 days of the report being received.
...

Regards

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Well, good! That is actually the answer I was looking for when I started this thread. The debate about the status of assets was not really the question. I get the packaged thing, and I like it. The color coding in Surveyor would be a great plus if that happens in Surveyor 2.0 also..