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Thread: Why I am upset with the last two "Updates"

  1. #1
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    Default Why I am upset with the last two "Updates"

    First, I cannot open my original session and start Driver over at the ORIGINAL Beginning. Now, whenever I open the route (my Alma Valley Route) and go to the beginning in what is supposed to be the START POINT of my original session, it isn't at the original start point, but somewhere in the middle of the session. I can open the route and it, too, will be somewhere in the middle of the original session. I can look at my drivers, and they will show up, but all the original instructions are gone (in Edit Route). Edit Session will show the original driver instructions with all stopping points, load, unload, etc. etc.

    This has ended my playtime with Trainz. What did you guys do?? Trainz has never worked like this before. I was always able to go in and select the route and "Edit Session" and be taken to the original point where I last saved the route, the beginning of the session. This new version of Trainz stinks.

    Also, in Driver there is no or almost NO traffic on the roads. Two updates before there was always plenty of traffic on my highways. This stinks, too.

    I don't know what these last two updates were supposed to "Fix" but in my opinion there was nothing fixed, only broken.

    Dave

  2. #2
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    Dave sad to hear
    Try to analyse what has changed as precise as possible and send a bug report
    The only way it gets fixed if we don't give up and tell them what is broken and what we really want
    Hopefully you kept an older version and backups.
    Here I use 100240 for content creation, route and session building
    and SP4 to test and drive only. side by side.
    Go work in a version you feel comfy with and keep having fun with Trainz

  3. #3

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    I'm sure the odd starting location was an iteration in one of the earlier versions, maybe even the first TANE?

    I really get the impression whoever is now programming for N3V are playing around with the spaghetti code and making it more tangled! It's not the first time old issues thought to have been patched out have resurfaced...
    TRS22 Standalone - Please Add Surveyor 2.0

  4. #4
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    Not a programmer here, but what I do here when work on scripts is add enough comments,
    that i can search and explain in steno what I did


    The problem with Trainz that beside a main code there are a few hundred little scripts that do part of the work
    112 you can read in the resources/scripts dir, but there are many more in separate kuids
    then for html related stuff, there are 67 files in userinterface and again many more via separate kuids
    then there are what I want to call outsourced things, like PhysX, speedtrees, TNI etc. etc.
    next, it needs to work on many platforms, increasing the code drasticly.


    If you want to call it spaghetti, fine I think its way more complex :-)
    more complex is more error.
    I would not want to be in the shoes of a Trainz programmer today.
    Lets try to help them, by being as precise as we can with bug reports and our wishes

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.M. View Post
    Not a programmer here, but what I do here when work on scripts is add enough comments,
    that i can search and explain in steno what I did


    The problem with Trainz that beside a main code there are a few hundred little scripts that do part of the work
    112 you can read in the resources/scripts dir, but there are many more in separate kuids
    then for html related stuff, there are 67 files in userinterface and again many more via separate kuids
    then there are what I want to call outsourced things, like PhysX, speedtrees, TNI etc. etc.
    next, it needs to work on many platforms, increasing the code drasticly.


    The watchers always know better than the doers

  6. #6
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    I like G.M.s advice, but unfortunately N3V does not make the older version installers available. I happened to save the SP3 installer and the 105100 installer. What version is that? I suppose it doesn't matter because then all of my 4.7 and 4.8 assets would be DOA. So you really can't go back unless you want to start over.
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  7. #7
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    105100 is SP1 with the content store added, released 19dec2019
    a good version but bulk-asset replace splines will not work

  8. #8
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    I am still running 110491. I find 114800 derails all the cars when you delete a building asset then hit crl Z. Bug report has been sent.
    TS06, TS09, TS10, TS12, New Era SP4, TS19

  9. #9
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    Thanks G.M. Nice to know!
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  10. #10
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    I understand Dave's frustration with this. The cause is an unintended effect caused by UDS. If an active driving session is edited and saved in midst of operation, consists will end up out of place on the next save. It's because of this that I wish that the reset driver schedules, or whatever it's called, reset the drivers too back to their home positions. Just resetting the driver's schedules throws everything into a bigger heap of crap as the AI start their driver schedules all over again from the wrong starting places, so that's basically useless as far as I can tell.

    Since I discovered this issue, I save all my driver sessions to CDPs prior to running them the first time. If I should inadvertently save the session as well as the route, I can easily restore my session back to it's original.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 114800

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    The cause is an unintended effect caused by UDS. If an active driving session is edited and saved in midst of operation, consists will end up out of place on the next save.
    <snip>
    Since I discovered this issue, I save all my driver sessions to CDPs prior to running them the first time. If I should inadvertently save the session as well as the route, I can easily restore my session back to it's original.
    Agree.
    Number one rule, if editing the world do it via 'edit route".
    Second rule, If editing the session do it via "edit session"
    Third rule, Use UDS for only minimal amendments and make sure the save is correct. eg 'save route only and not the session', that way the vehicles will still be at their starting position when the Drive session is loaded at another time.
    Fourth rule,frequently back up, back up, back up! Seperate custom named and dated cdps for route and seperate custom named cdps for the sessions.

    When following the above rules, I rarely have an issue. But if I do make a muckup of the saving because I did not pay attention to the save box selections, bring in the good ole backup - after deleting the messed up session first of course.
    "Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesnow View Post
    First, I cannot open my original session and start Driver over at the ORIGINAL Beginning. Now, whenever I open the route (my Alma Valley Route) and go to the beginning in what is supposed to be the START POINT of my original session, it isn't at the original start point, but somewhere in the middle of the session.
    As John points out in the post above, this is the UDS (Unified Driver Surveyor) interface. It is a very powerful development tool for route and session creators, and to get it was the sole reason I upgraded to TRS19 Platinum Edition. It allows you to stop an active driver session, fix a problem, and then continue the session from that point without having to start the entire session from the beginning again. This is a feature that many users have been demanding for many years now.

    But it does come with a risk. If you save the edited session using the "Overwrite" option (which many people who have this issue are doing) then you will replace your original session with a new session with all moving consists in their new position and all rules in their current states.

    It is also strongly recommended that all consists be placed in a Session layer and not in a Route Layer (which many people who have this issue are not doing).

    When using the UDS, the recommended saving techniques, unless you actually do want to save the consists in their new positions and rules in the new states, then:-


    • Select the option DO NOT SAVE THE SESSION, or
    • Select the option CREATE A NEW SESSION and enter a new name for the session


    Both will keep the original (starting) session untouched.


    Details are in the Trainz Wiki page at https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/..._UDS_Interface
    Trainz Plus (TRS19) build 114800 (SP4)
    Trainz Plus (TRS22) build 115373 (beta)
    Trainz Simulator 3 (Mobile)

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by davesnow View Post

    I don't know what these last two updates were supposed to "Fix" but in my opinion there was nothing fixed, only broken.

    Dave
    My thoughts too, Dave. Apparently the 180 degree bug is well known but wasn't universal to everyone, so in all fairness they make others suffer it now too.

    All break and no fix.

    Over the many years, I've enjoyed your work... very much. In fact, Trainz would have been unrealistic and mundane had you not contributed as you have and I thank you.

    At the very least, they ought to provide a rolled back version, no less some kind of explanation or statement of intent on how these issues will addressed.
    Algoma Central - Canadian Pacific - Canadian National - Esquimalt and Nanaimo - BC Rail

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dleblanc View Post
    All break and no fix.
    Not true. A lot of things have been fixed and other improvements made but of course that won't be believed by those affected by the new issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by dleblanc View Post
    At the very least, they ought to provide a rolled back version, no less some kind of explanation or statement of intent on how these issues will addressed.
    Tony has already stated that a rollback is not possible. He has also stated that they are working on the issues that have been raised. As to "how they will be addressed"? I would prefer that they work on the issues rather than waste time providing detailed technical descriptions that would never be detailed enough for some.

    Before SP4 was released it was asked how many new bugs will be in the new release?. Tony answered that they can only work on the issues that the beta testing and their own internal testing reveal but that "100%" of unreported bugs will be present in the released update. How much testing is enough? Given that it is mathematically impossible ("Turing Machine" and "Godel's Theorum" - Google them!) to confirm/prove that software is "bug free".

    Perhaps instead of just complaining we should document (with facts not emotions) and report via the Bug Reporting page at https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/xRdryu. All the new SP4 problems that I have encountered I have documented and reported this way, as well as posting in these forums - it works for me.

    My opinions
    Last edited by pware; October 19th, 2021 at 06:24 PM.
    Trainz Plus (TRS19) build 114800 (SP4)
    Trainz Plus (TRS22) build 115373 (beta)
    Trainz Simulator 3 (Mobile)

  15. #15
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    Well stated pware. There are at least three ways to handle patches:
    1. Back up your current version, install the beta, and report all errors found during the beta period. If it is too much or too critical for you, roll back to your backups.
    2. Back up your current version, install the release, and report all errors found with the release. If it is too much or too critical for you, roll back to your backups.
    3. Wait. Wait for 30 days or more to get a good handle on the responses from the early testers, then make the decision whether to move up to option 2.
    I am currently at option 3. I don't know if I will wait a full 30 days, but I want to see what the real issues are after the shouting is done.
    EDIT: Admittedly, Option 3 does not make testing and fixing available to N3V, as if it isn't used no errors will be found.
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

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