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Thread: Why I am upset with the last two "Updates"

  1. #31
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    Dave I started up you session. I was in thee yard with silica train one. The first driver however wasn't assigned a train. Been awhile since I last ran the session but I thought he was running a passenger train.

    rob

  2. #32
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    For UDS to work correctly I understand that all consists need to be in the surveyor level. What about portals? Do they also need to be in the surveyor level so that they get set back to the start position? What happens to all the consists they have spawned? Do they get erased or are they still running around where they left off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Bert View Post
    For UDS to work correctly I understand that all consists need to be in the surveyor level. What about portals? Do they also need to be in the surveyor level so that they get set back to the start position? What happens to all the consists they have spawned? Do they get erased or are they still running around where they left off?

    Not sure what you mean by "Surveyor Level" - possibly "Route Layers" or "Session Layers"? N3V have recommended that all consists be in a Session Layer for the UDS.

    Regarding portals (and a few other things) see https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/...tions_Answered
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "Surveyor Level" - possibly "Route Layers" or "Session Layers"? N3V have recommended that all consists be in a Session Layer for the UDS.

    Regarding portals (and a few other things) see https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/...tions_Answered
    I did mean session level - long day at the office.

    I read the questions answered link you provided. It seems to indicate that the portals must also be in the session level, and if it is then the train will be in the session layer. But then it goes on to talk about trains returning from a portal: " if a train is originally in a Session Layer then it is part of a Session. If it is returned from a portal then it will now be in a Route Layer and will be part of the Route." Not sure what this means, if the portal is in the session layer why would it return the train in the route layer?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Bert View Post
    I read the questions answered link you provided. It seems to indicate that the portals must also be in the session level, and if it is then the train will be in the session layer. But then it goes on to talk about trains returning from a portal: " if a train is originally in a Session Layer then it is part of a Session. If it is returned from a portal then it will now be in a Route Layer and will be part of the Route." Not sure what this means, if the portal is in the session layer why would it return the train in the route layer?
    I will reword the entry on the wiki. But as all (or nearly all) portals are in route layers (the best place for them in my opinion) then any train emerging from a portal will be placed in the same route layer as the portal. If a train is originally in a Session Layer (as recommended for TRS19 Platinum and Trainz Plus) and enters a portal (which is in a Route Layer) and the train is returned to the route, then it will emerge in the same route layer as the portal. It will no longer be in a Session Layer.

    As far as I can see this makes no difference to the operation of Sessions except where you use the UDS to jump into Surveyor from Driver, edit something and save the Route - the train will now be saved as part of the Route and not as a part of the Session. So my advice it to reset any consists that have emerged from a portal back to their original Session before saving the Route.

    Hope this is clear.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    ...n. So my advice it to reset any consists that have emerged from a portal back to their original Session before saving the Route.

    Hope this is clear.
    Very clear but rather cumbersome if those consists are scattered all over a very large map.


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  7. #37
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    ANOTHER process that, if no done properly, will result in customer confusion and maybe some bitter comments. Trains and portals should be in the same layer..... I ran for years only using the route layer. I did mot understand the reason for layers so I avoided them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    ANOTHER process that, if no done properly, will result in customer confusion and maybe some bitter comments. Trains and portals should be in the same layer..... I ran for years only using the route layer. I did mot understand the reason for layers so I avoided them.
    My conclusion is that for the UDS to work correctly both the trains and the portals must be in the session layer if you want everything to start back at the "beginning" position. I you use the UDS feature and if the portals are in the route layer then when you restart trainz you have consists scattered all over the place. This is contrary to what is stated in the wiki. If you have only one session for the route then this works perfectly.
    Last edited by Paul_Bert; October 22nd, 2021 at 02:54 PM.

  9. #39
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    I agree it is a problem if you have portals (which I admit I very rarely use) and use the UDS during the development of your route/session. The ideal solution would be to include layer data in each consist data set so that when it is produced from a portal it will be assigned to the correct layer. All of my routes are used to create multiple sessions so placing portals in a session layer would mean adding, and configuring, each portal multiple times, once in each session. That would be a real pain but as you pointed out - "If you have only one session for the route then this works perfectly". I will look again at the Wiki to see what ambiguity is still there.

    EDIT: I have submitted a bug report on this issue to see what the devs at N3V can make of it.
    Last edited by pware; October 22nd, 2021 at 03:57 PM. Reason: addendum
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountE View Post
    Dave I started up you session. I was in thee yard with silica train one. The first driver however wasn't assigned a train. Been awhile since I last ran the session but I thought he was running a passenger train.

    rob
    That's what happened to me one time. When the Original session starts at the beginning, the Amtrak is supposed to be just leaving the yard, heading north. That's no longer the case. N3V did something that changed the start sessions. It has absolutely and positively ruined the game for me. It's both depressing and sad. Also, there's hardly any traffic on the roads when previously there was LOTS of road carz.

    I'm done with Trainz.

  11. #41
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    I have no problems with placing and naming portals in Surveyor, but populating them with consists and drivers in the session while I setup drivers and consists throughout my routes.

    UDS I admit is great for testing things such as ATLS and TRC crossings. Place short consist, test in Driver and then return to Surveyor for more configuration and fixing if necessary.

    In some ways, this setup makes the whole Surveyor-Driver setup we've dealt with for 20 years obsolete. If the consists and schedules could be reset to starting positions, and not just the schedules, then that would complete that part of the puzzle. This would make setting up routes and sessions so much easier because there would no longer be a worry of what's where, or what's on the wrong layer.
    Last edited by JCitron; October 22nd, 2021 at 03:55 PM.
    John
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    I have no problems with placing and naming portals in Surveyor, but populating them with consists and drivers in the session while I setup drivers and consists throughout my routes.

    UDS I admit is great for testing things such as ATLS and TRC crossings. Place short consist, test in Driver and then return to Surveyor for more configuration and fixing if necessary.

    In some ways, this setup makes the whole Surveyor-Driver setup we've dealt with for 20 years obsolete. If the consists and schedules could be reset to starting positions, and not just the schedules, then that would complete that part of the puzzle. This would make setting up routes and sessions so much easier because there would no longer be a worry of what's where, or what's on the wrong layer.
    A complete reset for all trains while retaining changes made to the route would certainly simplify matters and take the confusion out so the saving process. All of my routes use portals (controlled by the Central Portal Control) so using UDS has been problematic for me since I have to make sure all my trains and portals are in the session mode.

    This whole discussion has been helpful to me. I will update one of my routes using lots of portals (as many as 25) and try using the UDS as it was intended.

    One other question when using the UDS: when switching from the route mode to the surveyor mode should you pause the route before switching - or does it make any difference?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Bert View Post
    One other question when using the UDS: when switching from the route mode to the surveyor mode should you pause the route before switching - or does it make any difference?
    The pause will be automatically turned on when you switch to Surveyor. It can make a difference because consists that were moving in Driver when you make the switch will be moving in Surveyor if it is unpaused. This can lead to problems such as derailments and collisions. As a side effect it also means that all animations will be paused so no loco (or other) smoke, no animated procedural track switch blades, no animated assets, etc.
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  14. #44
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    To add more to the pausing. This was added at the request of the beta testers. We found that we were chasing consists around while we were trying to fix things. While this may seem unintuitive, give it a try. You can still do that if you want by clicking pause while in the session editor with active consists. Talk about herding cats...
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Bert View Post
    My conclusion is that for the UDS to work correctly both the trains and the portals must be in the session layer if you want everything to start back at the "beginning" position.
    N3V QA have gotten back to me on my portals and UDS "bug" report. At their request I have conducted some more extensive tests and tried some suggested actions that might resolve the issue. Placing the portals in a session layer certainly solves the problem but can cause other headaches when multiple sessions are used.

    One test I conducted was to save a Driver Session (or a "Driver Game") after the train had been returned to the layout from a portal using different scenarios with the portal in a route layer in one scenario and then in a session layer in another. I exited Driver and then loaded and ran the saved Driver Session. While it was running I issued the driver with the driver command Layer Control > Hide > Session Layer to see if the train was actually in a session layer in both Driver scenarios. The train did not vanish in the scenario where the portal was in the route layer, confirming that the train really had moved to the route layer. It did vanish in the scenario where the portal was in the session layer, indicating that the train was still in the session layer.
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