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Thread: Layers Indication Question?

  1. #1
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    Question Layers Indication Question?

    The Layers menu on the right side of the display - When it says the current state is ROUTE or SESSION, is that always correct? For years I only used the route layer for all activities. I adopted the Sessions approach for more flexibility. That seemed to work. Then recently, several months ago, there were more discussions about the eternal confusion caused by N3V labeling two separate functions as SESSIONS. I have recently fallen into that trap as I switch around between route and sessions. However, if I can look at the Layers menu with confidence I can hopefully avoid being trapped unknowingly into the wrong layer.
    Yes, I know DISCIPLINE is the answer, but late at night it remains a trap for the weary trainzer.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951 & 115373

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    How could you ever have different sessions for a Route if you saved all activities to the Route layer?? (Unless you truly only ever wanted a single route that was also the one session you ever wanted to have....)

    Is it possible that you still don't understand the concept of "sessions"??
    22 Plus beta 115628; 19 Plus SP5 beta 115653; 19-Std SP3; Tane SP4
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  3. #3
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    Not only Discipline but more Workflow
    Use Route layers pure for things in the route (that will appear in any session)
    Use Session layers to put only stuff used in sessions
    in most cases all trains/vehicles are in session layers


    A lot of problems could be avoided, if in Surveyor,
    it would prominently show which layer is active in the topbar (always visible)

  4. #4
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    Yes, I am not very bright so confusion is an easy trap. As in many cases the intelligent find impatience with those who are not similarly endowed. I understand your frustration and possibly I do not fully understand the total scope of the Sessions concept. I apologize and withdraw the question. The answer should be in the use of the system. I will run some controlled tests to arrive at the answer.

    Regards, Dick
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951 & 115373

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    Dick, never put yourself down
    good software, should be clear and usable for all that bought and use it

  6. #6
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    The most confusing thing I find is when I've done a particular task in a layer and I've closed it off because I've finished working in it and I then go to do something else and I get a pop up message saying that I must reopen the layer I've just closed in order to continue. When I was completely new and wet behind the ears with working with layers I'd think 'Oh gosh I've made a mistake' and I'd open the layer again leading to me making a complete mess due to working in the wrong layer.
    Now I know better so I just click the layer I know I definitely want to work in on and off a few times and carry on, but I'm certain that new chums to Trainz get themselves messed up all the time due to those misleading pop up messages.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  7. #7

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    In the layers window, all layers in the top half will save with the route and will reappear when you open the route. All layers in the bottom half will save to the session, these will only reappear if you open the edit session and not appear if the route only is opened.
    All layers in the top route section and the bottom session section can be moved from session to route or vice versa at any time by sliding the layer from one section to the other. You can also shift the position of the layer in each section the same way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Yes, I am not very bright so confusion is an easy trap. As in many cases the intelligent find impatience with those who are not similarly endowed. I understand your frustration and possibly I do not fully understand the total scope of the Sessions concept. I apologize and withdraw the question. The answer should be in the use of the system. I will run some controlled tests to arrive at the answer.

    Regards, Dick
    Dick, if my answer ("Is it possible that you still don't understand the concept of "sessions") was taken wrong I apologize. I didn't intend ANY offense. I based my comment solely on your comment "For years I only used the route layer for all activities." - That indicates something to me..

    My question was a sincere one, not a put-down. I see by your registered products that you have been doing this far longer than I. I certainly am no expert. In fact, I still consider myself a beginner. But "sessions" are a key part of Trainz. Even if your sessions are simply different power and consists set in different locations ready to run. So I honestly ask, why wouldn't you want to use sessions? Why the route layer for all activities? I must be missing something here...
    22 Plus beta 115628; 19 Plus SP5 beta 115653; 19-Std SP3; Tane SP4
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    My take on the use of the terms "Route" and "Session" as used in Trainz are as follows:-

    Route - also called a "Layout", contains most of what you see when in Surveyor and Driver. Think of a Route as the "hardware". The Route consists of

    1. Route Data - textures, landforms, water and turffx/clutter. These are "painted" into the Route using a brush tool.
    2. Route Layers - individual assets, both visible and invisible, placed in the Route. All track and track objects (excluding some trackmarks and triggers) should be in this group. The contents of the Route Layers will appear in every Session created using the Route.


    Session - contains the "properties" of the layout and, optionally, some assets. Think of a Session as the "software". The Session consists of

    1. Session Data - mostly "invisibles" such as commodities in industries, loads in consists, weather, time, rules, drivers and driver commands
    2. Session Layers - individual assets that will only appear in this Session. In TRS19 PE and Trainz Plus it is recommended that all consists be placed in a Session Layer.


    In addition, there are also Driver Sessions which are "games" (or "running simulations") saved when in Driver mode.

    EDIT:

    The comments by several posters above are correct. Using layers is a matter of discipline and workflow. In addition the lack of any clear onscreen indication in Surveyor showing which layer is the current "active layer" is a cause of much chaos and frustration amongst route creators.

    My workflow consists of:-

    Only loading and editing the Route (not loading or saving a Session) when working in the Route only. For example adding/editing track, Route Layer scenery, ground textures, landforms, clutter, etc. Be aware that some Route assets (e.g. industries, junction switches) will have their properties stored as Session Data in a Session so I always ignore any requests to save the Session after editing these assets.

    Always loading and editing the Session (both the Route and the Session) when working with the Session Data and Session Layers. This covers changes to industries, consists (I always place consists in a Session, not a Route), rules, drivers, driver commands, switch settings (where the switch direction will be set differently in a Session), environment, time and Session specific scenery assets.
    Last edited by pware; September 19th, 2021 at 06:23 PM.
    Trainz Plus (TRS19) build 114800 (SP4)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    My take on the use of the terms "Route" and "Session" as used in Trainz are as follows:-

    Route - also called a "Layout", contains most of what you see when in Surveyor and Driver. Think of a Route as the "hardware". The Route consists of

    1. Route Data - textures, landforms, water and turffx/clutter. These are "painted" into the Route using a brush tool.
    2. Route Layers - individual assets, both visible and invisible, placed in the Route. All track and track objects (excluding some trackmarks and triggers) should be in this group. The contents of the Route Layers will appear in every Session created using the Route.


    Session - contains the "properties" of the layout and, optionally, some assets. Think of a Session as the "software". The Session consists of

    1. Session Data - mostly "invisibles" such as commodities in industries, loads in consists, weather, time, rules, drivers and driver commands
    2. Session Layers - individual assets that will only appear in this Session. In TRS19 PE and Trainz Plus it is recommended that all consists be placed in a Session Layer.


    In addition, there are also Driver Sessions which are "games" (or "running simulations") saved when in Driver mode.

    I often put signals and scenery items like trees and buildings into a session layer.Also rules and driver commands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitkin View Post
    I often put signals and scenery items like trees and buildings into a session layer.Also rules and driver commands.
    Placing signals in Session Layers will work if you only have the one Session for the route - although it offers no real advantages in doing that and some disadvantages (creator confusion for example). Create a second Session and those signals will not be present.

    Signals, like other visible track infrastructure, are fixed or permanent features - you would not expect a large semaphore signal to only appear in a Session that simulates night-time operations or in an industrial run, for example.

    As examples of items that I would place in Session layers:-

    • switchmen standing at junction levers in a shunting Session
    • postal bags, parcels and other "platform freight" waiting to be loaded into the caboose/guard van of a local passenger service in a branch-line passenger session
    • on-lookers looking at an steam train recreation session running on a modern route
    • trackmarks and triggers that have a role only in the session where they are placed and are not needed in other sessions


    Rules and Driver Commands are always part of a session.
    Trainz Plus (TRS19) build 114800 (SP4)
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  12. #12
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    @pware Placing signals in Session Layers will work if you only have the one Session for the route - although it offers no real advantages in doing that and some disadvantages (creator confusion for example). Create a second Session and those signals will not be present.

    Of course they may be in more than one session. Just clone the first session, and they are now in the second session, and so on.
    There are also advantages, or I would not do it.
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  13. #13
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    Mac, sorry for my bad reaction. It was a terrible day with lots of moving parts not just Trainz. I hoped to just enjoy making some sessions. I had the usual events such as some engines not working within the context of a session. That is a certain engine would arrive at a set of switches it had to traverse. It would slow down to a crawl and never get to the target. Use a different engine and it worked. That was an hour saga. During the various track changes, prior to the engine replacement, I must have confused SESSION and was really messed up.

    Perhaps a color code would help differentiate the two different meanings/functions.

    On a good day Trainz is satisfying. On a bad day I am tempted to tell Tony _____________.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951 & 115373

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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Mac, sorry for my bad reaction. It was a terrible day with lots of moving parts not just Trainz. I hoped to just enjoy making some sessions. -snip-
    No need to be sorry. We've all been there. I do wish I could better understand your situation. As I said above, I can't imagine not having some base sessions for you favorite route (s) even if it's consists set and ready to run. Or perhaps one session is summer and one session is winter. etc.

    Again, I certainly didn't intend to offend. I usually ramble but sometimes I'm short and pointed to attempt a focus on a certain point... but no disrespect is intended.
    22 Plus beta 115628; 19 Plus SP5 beta 115653; 19-Std SP3; Tane SP4
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  15. #15
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    Well, the OP has now managed to merge layers, routes and sessions, and AI into one cry of frustration. If someone honestly cannot grasp the concepts of layers, routes and sessions, then others trying to help on the forum are not likely to be successful. Layers and sessions are very helpful for those who make use of them. If you do not plan to upload sessions, and you have plenty of storage, then just continue to generate new routes every time you wish to have some sort of new scenario, such as adding a boxcar.

    There are a large group of persons who do not retain learning through the written word nearly as well as by "trying" the activity. I would suggest you do that from time to time.
    Platinum 2019 Build 111951; 2019 SP1 Build 105096; TANE SP4 Build 105766
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